General - Family History & Genealogy Message Board

GONZALEZ

katherens1 — 2013-03-14 18:35:06Z

Trying to find ancestors from Tangier, Morocco.
Jose Maria Antonio Gonzalez born to Maria de concepcion and Felix Gonzalez.
Born on 12 Jun 1949.
Anyone have any tips as to finding people that were born there??

Hilda Black

albert1963 — 2013-02-23 11:34:42Z

I'm looking for the descendants of Hilda Black who I believe died in Morocco after moving from London, England. I assume that her husband Jack Black is with her.

Re: Prince Among Slaves

oscarcaro — 2012-11-21 07:14:06Z

Keep in mind that when you speak of being 'Moroccan'...you must consider:
a. Berber
b. Moor
c. Etc.
It is not as cut and dry as one might think.

Also, was it during the 'Arabic-Muslim, Spanish, Portuguese, French control. Timing is everything...as different government may have documents in different languages and/or sources.

Barocas Family History

jasoncohen81 — 2012-11-12 23:52:25Z

My great grandfathers name was Solomon Barocas who Married my great grandmother Lena(Luna, Lula) Sividya. Solomon had a brother named Morris. Solomon came to New York around 1915 and Listed Chrystie Street as the place he was going. If anyone can help me go further back that would be great

Re: Gui or Guillaume L'ORANGE born mid/latter 1800's - Fez, Morocco

oscarcaro — 2012-11-11 06:01:50Z

Keep in mind that the children could also have gone through 'name changes' if adopted.

Re: Gui or Guillaume L'ORANGE born mid/latter 1800's - Fez, Morocco

oscarcaro — 2012-11-11 05:59:45Z

Rather late to respond...but, it may help.

I too spent several years in an orphanage. If it was Catholic, it would be relatively easy to find if you know the city or borough The kept rather meticulous records which are often available online or through the local diocese.

Re: Prince Among Slaves

LeonPridgen1974 — 2012-10-30 12:12:01Z

Themrs2008:

Good morning to you. I would like to ask you how did you come about to take that specific DNA test. I would like to know more about my African ancestry than just being "West African", I wish to know my origin (Hausa, Yoruba, Moroccan, Fulani, Kongo etc...) Please let me know how you were able to achieve this.

Thank you and hope to hear from you soon.

Sincerely,
Leon Pridgen

Re: solomon ? Sebag/Sebaz/Elbaz/Elboz b 1822 Moggadore, Morocco

annetteguidry — 2012-10-15 23:51:37Z

I just saw your message. You might try JewishGen to find Solomon. Solomon and Sebag were common Jewish first and last names. The marriage sounds like it was to someone from Spanish Morocco. (Spanish and French Morocco existed until the 1950's.)

Re: Prince Among Slaves

oscarcaro — 2012-10-11 04:05:43Z

Timbuktu is a city in the center of 'Mali'. You will note that the countries that border North and West Africa were often Muslim. One reason is that Christians did not want to convert non-Europeans...as they could not enslave them (based on religious prohibitions). There is a very good chance that your ancestors were Muslim.

Keep in mind that tens-of-millions of Africans (Black, and some Brown) were transported to Southern and Central America before the trade was expanded to North America (a couple of hundred years later).

MAP: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw....

Re: Prince Among Slaves

oscarcaro — 2012-10-10 03:49:08Z

Earlier, my focus was on Iberian (Spanish & Portuguese) slavery. The slave trade did not reach North America until it had been in practice for several hundreds of years.

Mexico had outlawed Slavery in 1834...which is why they lost at the Alamo. Texas wanting to continue practicing slavery was granted exception to the law. However, there was too much influence from other slaveholding states that wanted to expand (No. vs. So., pre-Civil War).

Texas was a State of Mexico (much like Guatemala. The Mexican legislature kept Texas within the jurisdiction of another Mexican state of Coahuila. Texas wanted it's own representative...not granted; Big Mistake...

http://www.emersonkent.com/images/mexico_1786.jpg

Mexico's War of Independence for Spain also made them weak...and it was ripe for rebellion in Texas (with support of Slave States). What would otherwise have been a non-slave territory became an American Slave State.

Re: Prince Among Slaves

oscarcaro — 2012-10-10 03:33:07Z

There were practicing Muslims (slaves) who came to the Americas. The earliest know mosque in the US was in the 1700s.

Most slaves had no choice as to where they would live nor any decision where their family members would go either. This was the beginning of the destruction of African families...unlike 'Europeans' who had ancestral links (at least to a country), African genealogy, history, culture, religious practices and most importantly family structure were destroyed. It is a miracle of sorts that some can find ancestors more than 150 years into the past.

That in part is why African-Americans (North, Central & South) have Euro-origin names. As many were sold as families in Africa...some made across, others didn't; creating more havoc as the 'Paternal/Maternal links were lost.

Slaves were not converted to Christianity for fear that the King(s) of Spain, Portugal (Catholic nations) would recognize them; Christians were not to be enslaved.

Native-Americans (N, C, & S) were also slaves; Hispanola, now called Haiti & Dominican Republic had 'ALL' of it's indigenous people wiped out. European Colonialists...contrary to myths..maintained genocidal practices of Africans and Natives 'when their purpose expired'.

You see so many countries blended Afro-Indigenous peoples who, as slaves often coupled...rarely were non-european marriages recognized; It would have limited trading as 'separating the family' was paramount for the trade.

People often comment as to how 'People of Color' just can't maintain family...with a history of forced separation...much has been inculcated in their history.

Re: Prince Among Slaves

TheMrs2008 — 2012-10-10 03:10:29Z

Great info!!You mentioned in several posts that my ancestors could've been Muslim. Is there a specific significance in descending from those who practice Islam?

Re: Prince Among Slaves

oscarcaro — 2012-10-10 03:05:37Z

It is very likely that your ancestors were Muslim. the western part of Africa (Algeria, Morocco, etc.) was know as Magreb; which means 'Western'
.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maghreb

I have been to Morocco several times. If you ever plan on going most speak at least two languages:

1. Berber (similar dialects stretching over most of N. Africa)
2. Classic Arabic (National Language)
3. French (Second National Language)
4. Moroccan Dialect (almost everyone understands it)
5. Spanish (Castilian, primarily in the northern region...Spain still has territory in No. Africa, e.g., Cueta)
.
There are Roman ruins near Rabat (capital). A place also to stop at is Buzneka (a town between Rabat and Casablanca).
.
Dishes work eating; TAGINE (foods cooked in the 'tagine' are chicken, lamb, potato, many kinds), BASTILLA, COUSCOUS (semolina cooked with various ingredients).
.
The marketplaces: Medina or Sueka are places to get some good deals...ignore the fake Gucci and other brands.
.
Don't let anyone put a King Cobra around your neck in Marrakkesh.
.
FLIGHTS: Some go to Paris, then Rabat (or Casablanca)...expect some turbulence over Spain.

.
p.s., Born in Ohio

Re: Prince Among Slaves

RTSearching — 2012-10-08 02:03:21Z

Thank you for that information.Please send me any info you have.I love History.Where was you born?
Thank again

Re: Prince Among Slaves

Oscar_CARO — 2012-10-02 04:35:16Z

Also, that is why you see so many thousands of words in Spanish which have Arabic roots.

That is also why you see so many Spaniard, Mexicans, Portuguese (including Cape Verde, Brazil and other former colonies) that have 'Arabic and Hebrew' surnames.

Growing up, I use to hear Mexicans who would claim that they were 'Spanish'...unbeknownst to them that their surnames were 'Arabic'.

Re: Prince Among Slaves

Oscar_CARO — 2012-10-02 04:31:17Z

Keep in mind that during the Spanish Inquisition, Many Jews and Muslims acted in fear.

There were three options;
a. Convert to Catholicism
b. Leave the Iberian Peninsula
c. Execution

Even those who chose 'conversion' (convertos) were often doubted...and were often spied on, given pork to eat (test their conversion), or put to THE QUESTION (torture)

Those who passed the Question...died. But, they proved that they were true Christians. Those who 'confessed' were executed, often by fire.

This is why you see many Jews who fled to other more tolerant European countries. Others returned to North Africa (where they had lived among the Muslims for centuries). These Jews were called 'Sephardic'...meaning Spanish Jews.

Re: Prince Among Slaves

TheMrs2008 — 2012-10-02 04:18:05Z

This info was so awesome-thanks! The ancestry.com test told me I was West African and Scandinavian. Since I already knew otherwise I wasn't fazed. Your last line made me laugh. Islam is a religion, not a race, so that doesn't really affect my DNA. I do thank you so much for your detailed response. The test I took also revealed indigenous blood native to Brazil as well-so your response was right on target!!

Re: Prince Among Slaves

Oscar_CARO — 2012-10-02 04:09:08Z

Well, yes.

During the late 1400s and early to mid-1500s, Southern Morocco was used by the Portuguese Jews who controlled the slave market. They used Morocco as a 'holding' place until they were transported to the new world.

We must remember that the Portuguese as well as the Spaniards had occupied Morocco for years (some of what we refer to as Spanish territories in northern Morocco today...were first Portuguese.

There were several famines in West Africa which also lead non-slave Moors to sell off their children believing that they would have a better life in Brazil, Spain or New Spain...where many slaves eventually were transported. Slaves were not transported to North America until at least 200 years 'after the trade began'.

You see that much of Brazil and other south american former Portuguese colonies were also the end of the route for Africans and Moros (Moors). It was not unusual that they may have also created families, were descendants of Rape, etc.

We must remember that the largest in size and quantity of slave traders/transporters were the Portuguese fleets. Keep in mind also that once the Spanish Armada was defeated, that other nations began to become more involved in colonizing the Americas...bringing labor with them.

Liberian was more 'west african'. The trade routes between the northern and southern sides of the Sahara brought many people together. Keep in mind that many of the black slaves were Muslims; from Mali, Senagal, Ivory Coast, Liberia, etc.

There is a very good chance that you are a descendant of Muslims

Re: Prince Among Slaves

TheMrs2008 — 2012-10-02 03:06:56Z

I took a very specific DNA test through a professor at my University, and I learned that I am 85% N. African (over hald of that was deemed Moroccan) and about 15%Iberian. I would like to know the slaves that settled on the Eastern Shore, since this is where my relatives have lived for the last 200years. Do you know anything about that?

Re: Prince Among Slaves

cutiephi4 — 2012-08-11 01:50:19Z

My family is from Natchez, Ms. My family surname is Foster as kn my other post I stated we are related to the Fosters and Ferby, and Prince

Re: Prince Among Slaves

cutiephi4 — 2012-08-11 01:47:06Z

I am a descendent of Prince and Bridget.

Magnus Friedrichsen after WW2

macben6418 — 2012-08-10 22:22:29Z

Hello!

I am looking for info about Magnus Friedrichsen b. 1911 Denmark. Served in German Military during WW2. Went to Morocco for years then back home to Denmark.

Thanks!

Re: solomon ? Sebag/Sebaz/Elbaz/Elboz b 1822 Moggadore, Morocco

anne_ledgerwood — 2012-08-03 12:25:03Z

Thankyou for that.
I too do not know where to turn for more information. Welcome Nunes Martine was a lucky break in someone else's family tree.

Re: solomon ? Sebag/Sebaz/Elbaz/Elboz b 1822 Moggadore, Morocco

trishelboz — 2012-08-02 22:46:24Z

Sorry coldn't be of any help.
I have hit a stumbling block in that department, although there seems to be a long family history in Morocco for Elboz/Elbaz. They come from a family of Rabbis apparently.
A lot are buried in the Jewish cemeteries there.
A source mentions Iberia/Spain but I cannot confirm that yet.

Re: solomon ? Sebag/Sebaz/Elbaz/Elboz b 1822 Moggadore, Morocco

anne_ledgerwood — 2012-08-02 07:34:53Z

similar situation.Itis my great grandmothers grandfather. Rebecca, Welcome and Solomons daughter married Henry Simons and my direct ancestor married their daughter Leah.

Does anyone know anything about him previous to coming to Britian?
There is a long line of Aschenazy Jews that Welcome came from originating in Spain and Portugal in 16th century.

Re: solomon ? Sebag/Sebaz/Elbaz/Elboz b 1822 Moggadore, Morocco

trishelboz — 2012-08-02 03:06:07Z

Not quite sure. My Solomon Elboz born Mogaddore Morocco either 1826 or 1829 died 1886 married to Welcome born 1822 or 1830? died 1866.
Married and died inEngland.
Records scetchy.
Is my husbands great great grandfather.

Re: Prince Among Slaves

RTSearching — 2012-04-25 23:54:13Z

Are you a descendant of Prince and Bridget? I have located most of their children.

Re: Prince Among Slaves

oscarcaro — 2012-04-24 03:49:09Z

FYI: Many slaves who came to the Americas were Muslim.

Slaves came via Senegal, Mali, Ivory Coast (West Africa often by the Portuguese ships).

There were those who explored the Americas South regions with the Spaniards (e.g., Esteban Dorantes; 1500-1539).

Re: Prince Among Slaves

RTSearching — 2012-02-13 06:32:05Z

Do you live in the states?I have found documented all of Prince and Bridget descendants except one child.It took me eight years to find them.I want to know are there any descendants that were born outside the states.I am very familar with the Tree,but there are others.

Re: Prince Among Slaves

RTSearching — 2012-01-19 04:17:48Z

Thank you so much for the info.You have solved the missing piece to the puzzle on Prince.
RTSearching

Re: Prince Among Slaves

oscarcaro — 2012-01-19 02:37:05Z

Example of one link: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_is_abd_al_rahman_ibrahima

Re: Prince Among Slaves

oscarcaro — 2012-01-19 02:35:48Z

A.I.R., like many slaves from West Africa were muslim. Which Country he was transported to was most important. Often ship logs and reflect the origin of the ships.

Sometimes, the ships were first taken to another African port before their South American Destination (e.g., Morocco under Portugese & Spanish flags as they were the predominant transporters for several hundred years).

Simply typing 'slaves: Abd-al Rahman Ibrahima' in a google search will provide a wealth of information.

Re: Prince Among Slaves

RTSearching — 2012-01-17 01:41:27Z

Are you a descendant from Natchez, MS ? I have located some of the Prince's grandchildren and greatgrand in various places. I have been searching this Famiy Tree since 1992.

Re: Prince Among Slaves

cutiephi4 — 2012-01-15 18:01:15Z

I am a descendant. Our family tree traces back to the Fosters and The Prince.

solomon ? Sebag/Sebaz/Elbaz/Elboz b 1822 Moggadore, Morocco

anne_ledgerwood — 2011-12-03 14:43:11Z

He married Welcome Nunes Martines (Martin)/ and family in this country 1844 ish onward. Anyone know of him, the correct name and his antecedants.

Re: Barocas or Barrocas Family History wanted

roothb1987 — 2011-08-22 01:53:49Z

That was an amazing family history. My name is Ruth Barrocas and I live in Miami,Fl. I was wondering if perhaps you know anything about the Barrocas family that went to Cuba? My grand father's name was Isaac, and there seems to be alot of those! I think he was born in the late 1800's in Turkey. I saw some stuff about Cuba, apparently those Barrocas folks live in Atlanta now. Well there is a few of us down here in Miami as well.
Hope to hear from you soon.
Please contact me at: roothb1987@yahoo.com
Thanks!!!!!

El Jamai - Jamai Looking for my grandfather

Kimmerly1966 — 2011-05-10 21:51:33Z

Hi, I am looking for my grandfather, well his family as he is deceased. He is from Morocco, his name is Mohammed Benjamin Jamai (El-Jamai) his fathers name is Ahmed and his moms name was Fathouma. He also had a sister and a brother, I believe the sisters name was Fathouma and I am not sure about his brothers name. He married a Jean Troup and had my Mom in 1940 Benoit C. Jamai. He died years ago (i never got to meet him) In New York, he was an acrobat. Please help if you know where i can look I have looked everywhere I can think of.

Re: African Descendants

oscarcaro — 2011-04-25 06:32:46Z

Sorry, just one more...the name parnell had more than one spelling:

http://www.encyclopediaofalabama.org/face/Article.jsp?id=h-2...

Re: African Descendants

oscarcaro — 2011-04-25 06:29:51Z

Slave Owner Parnell: Just a couple links...enjoy

http://sciway3.net/clark/beaufort/p.html

http://allempires.net/forum/why-did-white-southerners-suppor...

http://www.nebo.edu/resources/literacy/elementary/book_summa...

http://mercury.educ.kent.edu/database/eureka/detail_book.cfm...

Re: African Descendants

oscarcaro — 2011-04-25 06:16:22Z

ps, during and after World War I, many southerners went north because there were few men to work in many jobs...because they (white men) were sent to fight in Europe. It was at this time...many southern black went north thinking that it might be better than the 'not much changed South'. Poor white as well as poor black tenant-farmers went north, both hoping to improve their lives...
.
Unfortunately, it lasted for only a few years as the war ended and soldiers began returning home...to their jobs. Not only were the white soldiers returning...many southern whites who brought the catalyst of racism north. Together, this began the period of the race riots between 1920-30.
.
What history fails to tell us is that 'white people' were the rioters and assaulted and murdered many blacks at this time. The other myth is that racism was in the south...no,many of the lynchings and murders took place up north. Did you know that the KKK began in the northern states?
.

Re: African Descendants

oscarcaro — 2011-04-25 06:03:52Z

.
When searching for family of slave descendants; remember that slaves often were not on traditional records. Often, their geneology may be traced through 'Property' records.
.
Slave were not regarded as citizens/people...that, you must not forget...like wagons and horses were considered property.
.
Depending on where your great-great-grandfather was born...should help to determine which plantation he may have been born on or sold to. Looking into the city/county(or parrish)/state they were born...might be reflected in State archives...maybe even in transfer of property documents in local archives.
.
Also, as many decendents took as their name the Master's family...some also took on the 'town or river or familiar' name...especially after the Civil War.
.

Re: African Descendants

Ella345 — 2011-04-24 21:03:25Z

My great-great grandfather was a slave

Re: African Descendants

oscarcaro — 2011-03-29 03:03:28Z

.
Of note also, Pompei(y) was a Roman who owned many slaves. The name could also have come from using the slaveowner's name.

Re: African Descendants

oscarcaro — 2011-03-29 02:58:52Z

Also remember that this was a common practice in Euorpean ports; Many people were kidnapped or gotten soused...then, kidnapped onto ships.
.
They often became even 'white' slaves of europeans...or forced into servitude.

Re: African Descendants-POMPEY, slave ship to US

oscarcaro — 2011-03-14 05:20:16Z

p.s., often they went to other ports before coming to their port of destination. Slaves could very well have been moved from Morocco to another 'holding' country/city for final transportation to the American markets.
.
The ship that came to the Carolinas...may well have come from west africa.
.

Re: African Descendants-POMPEY, slave ship to US

oscarcaro — 2011-03-14 05:18:00Z

The reason Morocco and several other nations were used as Slave ports was that it was illegal in to have slave markets in the shipcaptains and investors own countries.
.
Many slaves were often dispatched via West African Ports...not at their own behest as much as that of their colonial governors (France, Portugal, Spain, Italy, etc.)
.
In fact, many slaves were Muslims from Senegal, Mali, Nigeria...
.
The Titles for slaves which were purchased...had documentation as to which slaves were purchased by which company to sell in whichever city. Many of these documents still exist.
.
Keep in mind that slavery in north america did not become normal until several hundred years after it began. Also, often the investors were 'Northerners' such as the DeWolfe family.
.

Re: Yanouri Decendants.

oscarcaro — 2011-03-14 05:09:06Z

This may be true...remember that the Spanish Inquisition forced many who lived in Spain to leave for survival,convert to Catholicism, or were killed.
.
Like many of the Jews and Muslims in that same period, they too dispersed.
.
Much of Southern Spains provinces were under the protection of the Muslims until the latter part of the 1400s

Re: Prince Among Slaves

oscarcaro — 2011-03-14 05:04:39Z

Check the manifests of Slaves...on ships.
Check the manifests of Slaves...in State archives, State historical societies, etc.
If he went to Liberia...what records are there of ships that went there during this period.
.
En Shahalla' you will find it

Re: dad

oscarcaro — 2011-03-14 05:00:54Z

Have you considered viewing 'immigration' databases?
.
Have you done a 'telephone' search?
.
Do you know anyone else in the family whom you may be able to search through them to find him?

Re: achour family

hamzabenachour — 2011-02-25 14:37:27Z

Interesting :)
I am a Ben Achour from Tunisia, my father's family are originally from the island of Djerba in Tunisia. My father did some research about our family. Most elders of the family have passed away so he couldn't gather all the info.
But they say that the ancestors fled Andalusia, Spain to North Africa, some went to Morocco, some to Egypt, Some to Lybia, some to Algeria and some to Tunisia. We are one big family :)