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Tivnan / Weir Sligo Ire

Replies: 3

Re: Tivnan / Weir Sligo Ire

Posted: 12 May 2013 9:28AM GMT
Classification: Query
Hello Jacqui,

I located the baptism index for a Winifred Tivnan at the Irish family History Foundation (IFHF) website for County Sligo. The index shows that Winifred was baptized in the Riverstown Catholic Church in 1825. Your records show she was born circa 1828, but the baptism year of 1825 is pretty close, and so this index may pertain to the Winifred Tivnan you are looking for.

IFHF baptism indexes do not automatically provide you with the names of the parents, and so the initial baptism index for Winifred looks like this:


1 match for the search criteria: Tivnan Winifred 1825 Parish: RIVERSTOWN (RC)

Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Sligo
Surname: Tivnan
First Name: Winifred
Father's Surname:
Father's First Name:
Mother's Surname:
Mother's First Name:

Year: 1825

Parish/District: RIVERSTOWN (RC)
____


There are a few ways to learn the first names of the parents in a baptism index at the IFHF. One is through further research. Another is to submit first names to the IFHF search engine, to see if any one of the names is accepted by the search engine. A third option is to order the transcription of the baptism from the IFHF to find out the names of the parents, including the mother’s maiden name. I chose to submit first names to the search engine to see which of them would be accepted.

After a few tries the search engine accepted Thomas as Winifred’s father. Another few submissions and the search engine accepted Maria as Winifred’s mother.

The revised baptism index for Winifred Tivnan is below. You’ll notice in the index that Thomas’s surname of Tivnan is not present. This is because it is likely that the original baptism record for Winifred does include his surname, as it would have been understood that his surname, like Winifred’s, was also Tivnan:


1 match for the search criteria: Tivnan Winifred 1825 Parish: RIVERSTOWN (RC)

Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Sligo
Surname: Tivnan
First Name: Winifred
Father's Surname:
Father's First Name: Thomas
Mother's Surname:
Mother's First Name: Maria

Year: 1825

Parish/District: RIVERSTOWN (RC)
____


The IFHF homepage can be found at: http://www.rootsireland.ie/

Before accessing indexes at the IFHF you’ll first have to register. Registration is free. You’ll also be able to access the baptism index for Winifred Tivnan that I did for free, but you will be charged to obtain a transcription of the baptism from the IFHF. You’ll have to purchase credits with a credit card to obtain the transcription. The IFHF website has more information about purchasing credits for baptism, as well as birth, marriage, and death or burial transcriptions at: http://www.rootsireland.ie/index.php?id=78

One big advantage of ordering records from the IFHF is that as soon as credit card information is processed, the record is sent to your computer, so that you don’t have to wait very long to view it.

Along with Winifred’s mother’s maiden name, the baptism transcription should include the exact date of the baptism, and the names of the sponsor or sponsors present at the baptism. The sponsors would be the godparents. The name of the parish priest who baptized Winifred may also be in the baptism index. I’m not sure if her baptism index will also include her father Thomas’s occupation.

Do you have any records that state that your Winifred Tivnan was a Roman Catholic?

I now wanted to see if I could uncover the maisden name of Winifred’s mother, Maria. This can be a hit or miss research strategy at best. But there are a few things that can be done in an attempt to find maiden names in baptism as well as marriage records. Your records as well as the baptism index above show the Tivnan’s had lived in Riverstown, County Sligo. The town of Riverstown was located in the Civil Parish of Kilmacallan.

Several other townlands were also situated within the Civil Parish of Kilmacallan. You can see a list of these townlands at the Irish Times website link at: http://tinyurl.com/cgmaqgp

If you scroll down the page you’ll also see that the Irish Times map shows where Kilmacallan was located in County Sligo. You’ll that Kilmacallan is highlighted in green at Map reference Number 24.

Next I accessed an Irish property tax record known as Griffiths Valuation. Griffiths Valuation was enumerated in the 32 counties of Ireland between 1847 and 1864. The valuation for Civil Parish of Kilmacallan was completed by the year 1858. This was 33 years after Winifred Tivnan was baptized, but I figured that someone with her mother’s maiden name could have been enumerated in Griffiths Valuation in one of the towns located in the Civil Parish of Kilmacallan.

Unlike a census, Griffiths Valuation did not enumerate family members. Those named in the valuation were the people who leased property. Each person who paid to lease the property was called an “Occupier.” The other person listed in Griffiths Valuation was the person who owned the property, or who worked as the middleman for the owner. This person was called the “Immediate Lessor.”

You can access Griffiths Valuation transcriptions and original copies for free at the askaboutireland website link at: http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml

I accessed Griffiths Valuation for the Civil Parish of Kilmacallan. I took surnames found in the various townlands in Griffiths Valuation, and submitted each to the IFHF search engine, to see which, if any, the search engine would accept. I eventually came to the name Francis Gaffney in the townland of Carrownagilty, Civil parish of Kilmacallan, located on Page 83. I submitted the surname Gaffney to the IFHF search engine for Maria’s maiden name, and the search engine accepted it.

Below is the revised baptism index for Winifred Tivan, showing that her parents were Thomas and Maria Gaffney Tivnan. This search was conducted under what the IFHF calls a “Standard Surname Index” search, which means that Gaffney in the baptism transcription, may be spelled a little differently than the way it is in the index below. This is indicated by the term (plus variants) you’ll see in the heading to the baptism index:


1 match for the search criteria: Tivnan (plus variants) Winifred 1825 Parish: RIVERSTOWN (RC)

Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Sligo
Surname: Tivnan
First Name: Winifred
Father's Surname:
Father's First Name: Thomas
Mother's Surname: Gaffney
Mother's First Name: Maria

Year: 1825

Parish/District: RIVERSTOWN (RC)
____


Next I wanted to see if I could find the Riverstown marriage index for Thomas Tivnan and Maria Gaffney at the IFHF website for County Sligo. I didn’t know if Winifred was one of the first of their children to be born, or one of the last, and so I looked for their marriage index from 1810 to 1825, to cover several years. I found the index showing that Thomas Tivnan and Maria Gaffney were married in the Riverstown Catholic Church in 1814. The index is below:


1 match for the search criteria: Tivnan (plus variants) Thomas 1814 Parish: RIVERSTOWN (RC)

Record Type: Marriage Records for Co. Sligo
Surname: Tivnan
First Name: Thomas
Spouse's Surname: Gaffney
Spouse's First Name: Maria
Father's Surname:
Father's First Name:
Mother's Surname:
Mother's First Name:

Year: 1814

Parish/District: Parish: RIVERSTOWN (RC)
____


I then wanted to see how many children Thomas and Maria Gaffney Tivnan had before Winifred’s baptism in 1825, as well as see if they had any children after Winifred. I located six more children, all baptized in the Riverstown Catholic Church. These children and their years of baptism are: Patrick (1815); Eugene (1817); Bridget (1820); Maria (1822); Catherina (1828); and Margaret (1830).

The baptism indexes of these children are below. I’ve also included the index for Winifred again so that you can see the full chronology of the Tivnan baptisms:


1 match for the search criteria: Tivnan (plus variants) Patrick 1815 Parish: RIVERSTOWN (RC)

Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Sligo
Surname: Tivnan
First Name: Patrick
Father's Surname:
Father's First Name: Thomas
Mother's Surname: Gaffney
Mother's First Name: Maria

Year: 1815

Parish/District: RIVERSTOWN (RC)
____


1 match for the search criteria: Tivnan (plus variants) Eugene 1817 Parish: RIVERSTOWN (RC)

Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Sligo
Surname: Tivnan
First Name: Eugene
Father's Surname:
Father's First Name: Thomas
Mother's Surname: Gaffney
Mother's First Name: Maria

Year: 1817

Parish/District: RIVERSTOWN (RC)
____


1 match for the search criteria: Tivnan (plus variants) Bridget 1820 Parish: RIVERSTOWN (RC)

Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Sligo
Surname: Tivnan
First Name: Bridget
Father's Surname:
Father's First Name: Thomas
Mother's Surname: Gaffney
Mother's First Name: Maria

Year: 1820

Parish/District: RIVERSTOWN (RC)
____


1 match for the search criteria: Tivnan (plus variants) Maria 1822 Parish: RIVERSTOWN (RC)

Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Sligo
Surname: Tivnan
First Name: Maria
Father's Surname:
Father's First Name: Thomas
Mother's Surname: Gaffney
Mother's First Name: Maria

Year: 1822

Parish/District: RIVERSTOWN (RC)
____


1 match for the search criteria: Tivnan Winifred 1825 Parish: RIVERSTOWN (RC)

Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Sligo
Surname: Tivnan
First Name: Winifred
Father's Surname:
Father's First Name: Thomas
Mother's Surname: Gaffney
Mother's First Name: Maria

Year: 1825

Parish/District: RIVERSTOWN (RC)
____


1 match for the search criteria: Tivnan (plus variants) Catherina 1828 Parish: RIVERSTOWN (RC)

Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Sligo
Surname: Tivnan
First Name: Catherina
Father's Surname:
Father's First Name: Thomas
Mother's Surname: Gaffney
Mother's First Name: Maria

Year: 1828

Parish/District: RIVERSTOWN (RC)
____


1 match for the search criteria: Tivnan (plus variants) Margaret 1830 Parish: RIVERSTOWN (RC)

Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Sligo
Surname: Tivnan
First Name: Margaret
Father's Surname:
Father's First Name: Thomas
Mother's Surname: Gaffney
Mother's First Name: Maria

Year: 1830

Parish/District: RIVERSTOWN (RC)
____


You can order the seven baptism transcriptions for the Tivnan children individually from the IFHF, or you can order them from one index. To order them from one index, do not include the first names of any of the children. In place first names use the % sign as a wildcard. Also do not include years of baptism. The search form will look like this:


7 matches for the search criteria: Tivnan (plus variants) % Parish: RIVERSTOWN (RC)

Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Sligo
Surname: Tivnan
First Name: %
Father's Surname:
Father's First Name: Thomas
Mother's Surname: Gaffney
Mother's First Name: Maria

Year:

Parish/District: RIVERSTOWN (RC)
____


You information shows that Winifred Tivnan had married William Weir. I next looked for their marriage index at the IFHF website, and believe I found it. The index shows the couple were married in the Tawnagh, Riverstown, Church of Ireland in 1851. Winifred’s maiden name is spelled “Tivnin,” in an “Exact Match” surname search.

The IFHF search engine accepted Lancelot as the first name of William’s father. The index is below:


1 match for the search criteria: Weir William 1851 Parish: TAWNAGH (RIVERSTOWN) (CI)

Record Type: Marriage Records for Co. Sligo
Surname: Weir
First Name: William
Spouse's Surname: Tivnin
Spouse's First Name: Winifred
Father's Surname:
Father's First Name: Lancelot
Mother's Surname:
Mother's First Name:

Year: 1851

Parish/District: Parish: TAWNAGH (RIVERSTOWN) (CI)
____


With Winifred Tivnin as the primary partner in the marriage index, I wanted to see if the search engine accepted Thomas as the name for her father. The search engine did:


1 match for the search criteria: Tivnin Winifred 1851 Parish: TAWNAGH (RIVERSTOWN) (CI)

Record Type: Marriage Records for Co. Sligo
Surname: Tivnin
First Name: Winifred
Spouse's Surname: Weir
Spouse's First Name: William
Father's Surname:
Father's First Name: Thomas
Mother's Surname:
Mother's First Name:

Year: 1851

Parish/District: Parish: TAWNAGH (RIVERSTOWN) (CI)
____


I had expected that Winifred would have been married in a Catholic Church, though I have seen many Irish marriage records where a person born Catholic had married into the Anglican Church of Ireland.

The above is a church marriage index, but I knew from previous experience with Irish Protestant marriages, that there would also be a civil marriage record for William and Winifred. Civil Registration began in Ireland in 1845 when the government began to record Protestant marriages. Civil Registration of births, marriages, and deaths for all religious denominations didn’t commence in Ireland until 1864.

I didn’t find a civil marriage index for William and Winifred at the IFHF website, though I did locate their marriage index at the Latter Day Saints (LDS) website at: https://familysearch.org/search

The index shows that the marriage of William Weir and “Winnifred Twenan” was recorded in Killmacallen, Sligo, on 14 March 1851. The index further shows that William’s father was Lancelot and Winifred’s father was Thomas. If you recall, the town of Riverstown was located in the Civil Parish of Kilmacallan:


William Weir, "Ireland Marriages, 1619-1898"

Name: William Weir
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Age:

Spouse's Name: Winnifred Twenan
Spouse's Birth Date:
Spouse's Birthplace:
Spouse's Age:

Event Date: 14 Mar 1851
Event Place: Killmacallen, Sligo, Ire

Father's Name: Lancelot Weir
Mother's Name:

Spouse's Father's Name: Thomas Twenan
Spouse's Mother's Name:

Marital Status:
Previous Wife's Name:

Spouse's Marital Status:
Spouse's Previous Husband's Name:

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M70205-1
System Origin: Ireland-VR
Reference ID: 2:3SBPP95

GS Film number: 101331 = Marriage records, 1845-1870, in the General Registry Office of Ireland:
Marriages v. 10 1851

Collection: William Weir, "Ireland Marriages, 1619-1898"
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FG6D-Y8J

Citing this Record
"Ireland Marriages, 1619-1898," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FG6D-Y8J : accessed 12 May 2013), William Weir and Winnifred Twenan, 14 Mar 1851.
____


The civil marriage record for William and Winifred can be found in LDS microfilm number 101331. You can order this film from your nearest Family History Center. If you do not wish to order the microfilm from the Family History Center, you can send for the marriage record from the General Register Office (GRO) in Roscommon Town, County Roscommon. For information about ordering civil birth, marriage, and death records, costs, and application forms, go to the GRO website at: www.groireland.ie/

Next I looked for the baptism indexes for any children of William and Winifred Weir at the IFHF website. I didn’t find any indexes in County Sligo, or other Irish counties.

At this point in the research I wanted to see if I could locate the baptism indexes for Thomas Tivnan, Maria Gaffney, and William Weir, son of Lancelot Weir. Before doing so however, I needed to see how far back in time the Riverstown Catholic Parish registers of baptism and marriage went. According to a book by Brian Mitchell called “A Guide To Irish Parish Registers,” the Riverstown Catholic Church registers begin in 1803, too late to have recorded the baptisms for Thomas Tivnan, Maria Gaffney, and William Weir, that is, if William had been born in the late 1700s.

On the chance he was born after 1802 I looked for the Riverstown Catholic Church baptism index for William Weir, son of Launcelot/Lancelot Weir at the IFHF website, but failed to locate it. I also looked for his baptism in other counties, but again without success.

I also looked for Thomas Tivnan and Lancelot Weir in Griffiths Valuation, but didn’t find them.

I did uncover one record however that may refer to Lancelot Weir. This record is called the Tithe Applotment Books, which is another land tax record, with the taxes going to the Church of Ireland to help support the poor. The Tithe Applotment Book indexes and copies of the original records can be accessed from the National Archives of Ireland website link at: http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/h...

The link above will also explain the Tithe Applotment Books in more detail.

The Tithe Applotment Books show that a Lancelot Weir had farmed property in the townland of Doonsheheen, Civil Parish of Ballysumaghan. The Tithe Applotment Book index for Lancelot Weir can be found at:
http://tinyurl.com/ch7k9cz

The index shows the Tithe Applotment Book record for Lancelot Weir is dated 1824. You can view a copy of the original record at: http://tinyurl.com/dxatnnt


CONCLUSION

Jacqui, I can’t be sure that all the indexes you see above pertain to the Tivnan and Weir ancestors you are looking for. But there is the possibility they do. Perhaps you will know if they do better than I, as I am not a descendant, nor had I been researching the Tivnan and Weir lines before reading your post to the Ancestry.com message board for County Sligo.

Best of Luck with your research,

Dave Boylan
SubjectAuthorDate Posted
jacqui63m 1 Mar 2013 11:48AM GMT 
DaveBoylan 12 May 2013 3:28PM GMT 
jacqui63m 14 May 2013 2:23PM GMT 
DaveBoylan 16 May 2013 2:31PM GMT 
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