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Smith family Gortaculra / Carden Estate

Replies: 3

Re: Smith family Gortaculra / Carden Estate

Posted: 30 Jan 2013 6:20PM GMT
Classification: Query
Hello Mairead,

I’m not a descendant of the Smith and Chapman families but found the civil marriage index for Edward Smith and Martha Chapman at the Latter Day Saints (LDS) free website at: https://www.familysearch.org/#form=advanced-records

The index shows that the marriage of 23 year old Edward and 20 year old Martha was recorded in Rathdrum, County Wicklow on 22 December 1862. Edward’s father is listed as Edward Smith while Martha father is John Chapman.

The index is below:


Edward Smith in entry for Edward Smith and Martha Chapman, "Ireland, Marriages, 1619-1898"

groom's name: Edward Smith
groom's birth date: 1839
groom's birthplace:
groom's age: 23

bride's name: Martha Chapman
bride's birth date: 1842
bride's birthplace:
bride's age: 20

marriage date: 22 Dec 1862
marriage place: Rathdrum, Wick, Ire.

groom's father's name: Edward Smith
groom's mother's name:

bride's father's name: John Chapman
bride's mother's name:

groom's marital status:
groom's previous wife's name:

bride's race:
bride's marital status:
bride's previous husband's name:

indexing project (batch) number: M70226-9
system origin: Ireland-VR
reference number: 2:3FZ13K5

source film number: 101440 = Marriage records, 1845-1870, in the General Registry Office of Ireland:
Marriages v. 9 1862

Collection: John Chapman in entry for Edward Smith and Martha Chapman, "Ireland, Marriages, 1619-1898"
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGX9-242

Citing this Record
"Ireland, Marriages, 1619-1898," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGX9-242 : accessed 30 Jan 2013), John Chapman in entry for Edward Smith and Martha Chapman, 22 Dec 1862; citing reference 2:3FZ13K5, FHL microfilm 101440.
____


A copy of the civil marriage record for Edward and Martha can be found in LDS microfilm number 101440. You can order this film from your nearest Family History Center.

I then uncovered the church marriage index for Edward Smith and Marsha Chapman at the Irish Family History Foundation (IFHF) website for County Wicklow. The index shows that Edward and Martha were married in the Wicklow Church of Ireland in 1862. Indexes at the IFHF do not automatically provide you with names the way the LDS website does in cases like the one above. The index from the IFHF did not originally provide the names of the fathers of the groom and bride, even though Church of Ireland and Church of England marriages from this time period traditionally give the names of the fathers of the married couple. But, I already knew who their fathers were from the LDS index above.

The IFHF search engine accepted Edward as the first name of Edward’s father:

The marriage index follows:


1 match for the search criteria: Smith (plus variants) Edward 1862 Parish: WICKLOW (CI)

Record Type: Marriage Records for Co. Wicklow
Surname: Smith
First Name: Edward
Spouse's Surname: Chapman
Spouse's First Name: Martha
Father's Surname: Smith
Father's First Name: Edward
Mother's Surname:
Mother's First Name:

Year: 1862

Parish/District: Parish: WICKLOW (CI)
____


With Martha Chapman as the primary partner in the marriage index, the search engine accepted John as the first name for her father:


1 match for the search criteria: Chapman (plus variants) Martha 1862 Parish: WICKLOW (CI)

Record Type: Marriage Records for Co. Wicklow
Surname: Chapman
First Name: Martha
Spouse's Surname: Smith
Spouse's First Name: Edward
Father's Surname: Chapman
Father's First Name: John
Mother's Surname:
Mother's First Name:

Year: 1862

Parish/District: Parish: WICKLOW (CI)
____


The IFHF homepage can be found at: http://www.rootsireland.ie/

Before accessing indexes at the IFHF you’ll first have to register. Registration is free. You’ll also be able to access the marriage indexes that I did for free, but you will be charged to obtain the transcription of the marriage. You’ll have to purchase credits with a credit card to obtain the transcription. The IFHF website will have more information about purchasing credits for baptism, as well as birth, marriage, and death or burial transcriptions.

Next I found the baptism and or birth indexes for 10 children of Edward Smith and Martha at the Irish Family History Foundation. These children and their years of birth are:

Edward (1863); Mary (1868); Martha (1871); Martin (1871); Sarah (1874); Jane (1877); Catherine (1880); Eliza (1881); Henrietta (1884); and Ann (1887).

Indexes you’ll see below show that Edward was baptized in the Wicklow Church of Ireland, while the other 9 children were born in County Tipperary North. Mary, Martha, and Jane have birth and baptism indexes, while the rest of the children have birth indexes. The Tipperary baptisms for the three children took place in the Templemore, Church of Ireland. The births of the children were recorded in the Tipperary townland of Bourney. These are Civil Registration (CR) birth indexes.

The indexes also shows that Martha and Martin Smith were born in 1871, indicating they were twins.

Church of Ireland baptism records did not traditionally include the maiden name of the child’s mother, and so you won’t see Chapman listed in any of the baptisms for those children with baptism indexes. Civil birth records however, do include the maiden name of the child’s mother. Each of the birth indexes will show you that Martha’s maiden name was Chapman. Both birth and baptism indexes may provide additional information, such as where the family had been living when the child was born or baptized, and the occupation of their father Edward.

There are a total of 12 indexes for the 10 Smith children. This is because some of the children had both birth and baptisms recorded by the IFHF:


1 match for the search criteria: Smith (plus variants) Edward 1863 Parish: WICKLOW (COI)

Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Wicklow
Surname: Smith
First Name: Edward
Father's Surname: Smith
Father's First Name: Edward
Mother's Surname:
Mother's First Name: Martha

Year: 1863

Parish/District: WICKLOW (COI)
____


1 match for the search criteria: Smith (plus variants) Mary 1868 Parish: BOURNEY (CR)

Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Tipperary (North)
Surname: Smith
First Name: Mary
Father's Surname: Smith
Father's First Name: Edward
Mother's Surname: Chapman
Mother's First Name: Martha

Year: 1868

Parish/District: BOURNEY (CR)


AND


1 match for the search criteria: Smith (plus variants) Mary 1868 Parish: TEMPLEMORE (CI)

Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Tipperary (North)
Surname: Smith
First Name: Mary
Father's Surname: Smith
Father's First Name: Edward
Mother's Surname:
Mother's First Name: Martha

Year: 1868

Parish/District: TEMPLEMORE (CI)
____


1 match for the search criteria: Smith (plus variants) Martha 1871 Parish: TEMPLEMORE (CI)

Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Tipperary (North)
Surname: Smith
First Name: Martha
Father's Surname: Smith
Father's First Name: Edward
Mother's Surname:
Mother's First Name: Martha

Year: 1871

Parish/District: TEMPLEMORE (CI)


AND


1 match for the search criteria: Smith (plus variants) Martin 1871 Parish: BOURNEY (CR)

Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Tipperary (North)
Surname: Smith
First Name: Martin
Father's Surname: Smith
Father's First Name: Edward
Mother's Surname: Chapman
Mother's First Name: Martha

Year: 1871

Parish/District: BOURNEY (CR)
____


1 match for the search criteria: Smith (plus variants) Sarah 1874 Parish: BOURNEY (CR)

Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Tipperary (North)
Surname: Smith
First Name: Sarah
Father's Surname: Smith
Father's First Name: Edward
Mother's Surname: Chapman
Mother's First Name: Martha

Year: 1874

Parish/District: BOURNEY (CR)
____


1 match for the search criteria: Smith (plus variants) Jane 1877 Parish: BOURNEY (CR)

Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Tipperary (North)
Surname: Smith
First Name: Jane
Father's Surname: Smith
Father's First Name: Edward
Mother's Surname: Chapman
Mother's First Name: Martha

Year: 1877

Parish/District: BOURNEY (CR)


AND


1 match for the search criteria: Smith (plus variants) Jane 1877 Parish: TEMPLEMORE (CI)

Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Tipperary (North)
Surname: Smith
First Name: Jane
Father's Surname: Smith
Father's First Name: Edward
Mother's Surname:
Mother's First Name: Martha

Year: 1877

Parish/District: TEMPLEMORE (CI)
____


1 match for the search criteria: Smith (plus variants) Catherine 1880 Parish: BOURNEY (CR)

Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Tipperary (North)
Surname: Smith
First Name: Catherine
Father's Surname: Smith
Father's First Name: Edward
Mother's Surname: Chapman
Mother's First Name: Martha

Year: 1880

Parish/District: BOURNEY (CR)
____


1 match for the search criteria: Smith (plus variants) Eliza 1881 Parish: BOURNEY (CR)

Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Tipperary (North)
Surname: Smith
First Name: Eliza
Father's Surname: Smith
Father's First Name: Edward
Mother's Surname: Chapman
Mother's First Name: Martha

Year: 1881

Parish/District: BOURNEY (CR)
____


1 match for the search criteria: Smith (plus variants) Henrietta 1884 Parish: BOURNEY (CR)

Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Tipperary (North)
Surname: Smith
First Name: Henrietta
Father's Surname: Smith
Father's First Name: Edward
Mother's Surname: Chapman
Mother's First Name: Martha

Year: 1884

Parish/District: BOURNEY (CR)
____


1 match for the search criteria: Smith (plus variants) Ann 1887 Parish: BOURNEY (CR)

Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Tipperary (North)
Surname: Smith
First Name: Ann
Father's Surname: Smith
Father's First Name: Edward
Mother's Surname: Chapman
Mother's First Name: Martha

Year: 1887

Parish/District: BOURNEY (CR)
____


It would be a tedious process to order 12 individual baptism and birth transcriptions for the Smith children. You can order the birth and baptism transcriptions from one index. To do this do not include the first names of the children or Martha’s maiden name in any of the indexes. Also do not include a county of birth or baptism, or a Parish/District of birth or baptism. In the year box of the search engine choose 1882 plus or minus (+/-) 20 years.

The index looks like this:


12 matches for the search criteria: Smith (plus variants) 1862-1902

Surname: Smith
First Name:
Father's Surname: Smith
Father's First Name: Edward
Mother's Surname:
Mother's First Name: Martha

Year: 1882 +/- 20 years

Parish/District:
____


Next I found 60 year old Edward and 57 year old Martha Smith and two of their children in the 1901 census of Ireland, living in an address of House 1, Gortaculra, Killea, County Tipperary. I believe the name of this townland is actually spelled, “Gortacurra.” Edward is shown to be a farmer who could read and write and who was born in County Wicklow. He is also shown to belong to the Church of Ireland, as is everyone in the household. Martha too is shown to have been born in County Wicklow. The two children in the household are 20 year old Kate and 12 year old Anna, both born in County Tipperary.


The 1901 census transcription below is from the National Archives of Ireland website link at:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/


1901 Census of Ireland


Residents of a house 1 in Gortaculra (Killea, Tipperary)

Surname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion Birthplace Occupation Literacy Irish Language
Marital Status Specified Illnesses

Smith Edward 60 Male Head of Family Church of Ireland Co Wicklow Farmer Read and write Married
Smith Martha 57 Female Wife Church of Ireland Co Wicklow Farmers Wife Married
Smith Kate 20 Female Daughter Church of Ireland Co Tipperary Farmers Daughter Not Married
Smith Anna 12 Female Daughter Church of Ireland Co Tipperary Scholar Not Married
____


You can view a copy of the original 1901 census for the Smith family at the National Archives of Ireland link at: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003902451/

I also located the Smith family in the 1911 census of Ireland in an address of House 4, Gortacurra, Tipperary. The census shows that Edward is a 71 year old married farmer born in County Wicklow. He and his family all belong to the Church of Ireland. His wife is 68 year old Martha, also born in County Wickow. Martha and Edward are shown to have been married 48 years and in that time period had 10 children, with all 10 still alive as of 1911. Two of their children are in the household with them. These are 26 year old Sarah and 24 year old Kate. Sarah and Kate were born in County Tipperary. Also in the household is Edward and Martha’s grandson, William H. Smith, born in County Westmeath.

The 1911 census transcription below is from the National Archives of Ireland:


1911 Census of Ireland


Residents of a house 4 in Gortacurra (Killea, Tipperary)

Surname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion Birthplace Occupation Literacy Irish Language
Marital Status Specified Illnesses Years Married Children Born Children Living

Smith Edward 71 Male Head of Family Church of Ireland Co Wicklow Farmer Read and write Married
Smith Martha 68 Female Wife Church of Ireland Co Wicklow Read and write Married 48 10 10
Smith Sarah 26 Female Daughter Church of Ireland Co Tipperary Read and write Single
Smith Kate 24 Female Daughter Church of Ireland Co Tipperary Read and write Single
Smith William H 18 Male Grand Son Church of Ireland Co Westmeath Read and write Single
____


To view a copy of the original 1911 census for the Smith family, go to the National Archives link at:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003356099/

Next I wanted to see if I could find the baptism indexes for Edward Smith and Martha Chapman at the IFHF website. Their 1862 marriage index shows that Edward’s father was also named Edward, and that Martha’s father was John Chapman. The 1901 and 1911 census enumerations show that Edward and Martha were born in County Wicklow, but I didn’t know if Edward and Martha were baptized in the Wicklow Church of Ireland (where they married) or in another Church of Ireland parish.

The LDS marriage index had shown that John was 23 years old in 1862, placing his year of birth in 1839.

I found the baptism index for an Edward Smith, son of Edward Smith, recorded in the Wicklow Church of Ireland in 1839. This could be the baptism for your Edward Smith. The index does not include the first or maiden names of Edward’s mother. I took a few guesses to see if I could find out the first name of Edward’s mother. The search engine accepted Maria. Church of Ireland baptisms from this time period did not traditionally include the maiden name of the child’s mother, and so you probably will not see Mary’s maiden name listed on the baptism transcription, should you choose to order it from the IFHF.

The index is below:


1 match for the search criteria: Smith (plus variants) Edward 1839 Parish: WICKLOW (COI)

Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Wicklow
Surname: Smith
First Name: Edward
Father's Surname: Smith
Father's First Name: Edward
Mother's Surname:
Mother's First Name: Maria

Year: 1839

Parish/District: WICKLOW (COI)
____


I then wanted to see if I could find an IFHF marriage index for an Edward Smith and a Mary recorded in the Wicklow Church of Ireland between 1800 and 1839. I didn’t find an index, nor did I locate a marriage index for Edward and Mary anywhere in County Wicklow for the same time period.


I then looked for a baptism index for a Martha Chapman, daughter of John Chapman. The LDS marriage index earlier had shown that Martha was 20 years old when she married in 1862, placing her year of birth in 1842. The LDS index, as well as the church marriage index from the IFHF also show that her father’s first name was John.

With this information I found a baptism index for a Martha Chapman, daughter of John Chapman, recorded in the Dunganstown, Wicklow Church of Ireland, in 1842. I took a few guesses as to her mother’s first name. The IFHF search engine accepted Sarah as her mother’s first name.

The baptism index follows:


1 match for the search criteria: Chapman (plus variants) Martha 1842 Parish: DUNGANSTOWN (COI)

Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Wicklow
Surname: Chapman
First Name: Martha
Father's Surname: Chapman
Father's First Name: John
Mother's Surname:
Mother's First Name: Sarah

Year: 1842

Parish/District: DUNGANSTOWN (COI)
____


Being as the index above for Martha Chapman is a Church of Ireland baptism record, there will probably not be a maiden name listed for her mother Sarah in the transcription from the IFHF.

I then wanted to see if I could find the marriage index for John Chapman and Sarah. I found one index that may pertain to the marriage of Martha’s father and mother John Chapman and Sarah, but not recorded in the Dunganstown Church of Ireland. This marriage was recorded in the Killiskey Church of Ireland in 1840. You’ll notice that the “Spouse’s Surname” box for Sarah is empty, as I did not know her maiden name:


1 match for the search criteria: Chapman (plus variants) John 1840 Parish: KILLISKEY (CI)

Record Type: Marriage Records for Co. Wicklow
Surname: Chapman
First Name: John
Spouse's Surname:
Spouse's First Name: Sarah
Father's Surname:
Father's First Name:
Mother's Surname:
Mother's First Name:

Year: 1840

Parish/District: Parish: KILLISKEY (CI)
____


Next I wanted to see if I could possibly uncover Sarah’s maiden name through additional research. The marriage of John Chapman and Sarah, as you can see above, took place in the Killiskey, Wicklow, Church of Ireland. This may have been Sarah’s parish church as it was traditional for Church of Ireland marriages to take place in the bride’s parish. What I did at this point was access an Irish property tax record known as Griffiths Valuation. Griffiths Valuation was enumerated in the 32 counties of Ireland between 1847 and 1864. The enumeration for the Civil Parish of Killiskey, Wicklow, was completed by 1854, which was 14 years after John Chapman and Sarah were married. But, Griffiths Valuation would give a list of several first and last names of those people who leased property in the various townlands in the parish of Killiskey. I wanted to see if any of these names could also be Sarah’s maiden name.

I accessed Griffiths Valuation for the townland of Killiskey, Civil Parish of Killiskey. Some of the last names of the people leasing property in this townland in Griffiths Valuation were Flaherty, Hyland, Healy, McGarry, Lawless, Smyth, Robb, etc. I took each of these names and went back to the marriage index for John Chapman and Sarah, to see if the search engine would accept any of the surnames listed in Killiskey, as Sarah’s maiden name. None of the names had been accepted by the search engine. The townland listed afrer Killiskey in the Griffiths Valuation record is Kiltomon. The last names of the some of the people leasing property in Kiltomon in Griffiths Valuation are Seagrave, Loughlin, Grundy, McDonnell, Lennon, Gormley, Archer, and Doyle. Once again I went back to the IFHF marriage index for John Chapman and Sarah, to see if the search engine accepted any of the surnames found in Griffiths Valuation in the townland of Kiltomon, as Sarah’s maiden name. I was surprised to find that the search engine accepted Grundy as Sarah’s maiden name.

The revised marriage index for John Chapman and Sarah Grundy is below:


1 match for the search criteria: Chapman (plus variants) John 1840 Parish: KILLISKEY (CI)

Record Type: Marriage Records for Co. Wicklow
Surname: Chapman
First Name: John
Spouse's Surname: Grundy
Spouse's First Name: Sarah
Father's Surname:
Father's First Name:
Mother's Surname:
Mother's First Name:

Year: 1840

Parish/District: Parish: KILLISKEY (CI)
____


I can’t be 100% sure that John Chapman and Sarah Grundy were your Martha Chapman’s parents, but there’s a possibility they were.

Mairead, in your research had you heard that the name Grundy may be part of your Smith and Moloney family history? Or, when growing up had you heard the name Grundy spoken about at all?

Kind Regards,

Dave Boylan
SubjectAuthorDate Posted
maireadtimmin... 25 Jan 2013 8:17PM GMT 
DaveBoylan 31 Jan 2013 1:20AM GMT 
maireadtimmin... 31 Jan 2013 1:26PM GMT 
DaveBoylan 2 Feb 2013 8:06PM GMT 
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