General - Family History & Genealogy Message Board

Re: locations in Scotland - Shire help ~1815

DZzmiller — 2013-04-15 14:46:49Z

Thanks again, that's helpful.
I was able to find the wedding after including first names. The most common spelling seems to be MacKay. I use 'Mckey" simply because it's on Catherine's tombstone.
It must have been a hard life in 1850, considering the number of people who immigrated to the U.S. and Australia. Catherine boy's ended up immigrated later. I you noted her daughters died in Scotland.

Re: Local community websites

GordonPertJohnson — 2013-04-14 23:58:38Z

As I said, "the NEAREST Family History Society" - there are loads of them now. Most are geographical in their coverage, but the Scottish Genealogy Society, based in Edinburgh, claims to cover the whole of Scotland.
They have an excellent library of resource material, so you could try asking them for help. They will expect you to join first, of course, and pay the annual subscription (25 pounds for overseas members).

Re: Local community websites

aef180 — 2013-04-14 23:22:56Z

Interesting. I don't know where in Scotland my ancestors came from, however. Gordon, where might I find info on the Family History Society? Yes, I am still searching for that elusive Faulkner that left Scotland for the States around 1700... Anne Faulkner

Local Scotland community websites

ross_mckay77 — 2013-04-12 15:11:08Z

If you're looking to trace your family history in Scotland, there's a group of over 100 local community websites which could well be useful if you're trying to trace family information.

All of the 107 sites have a 'memories' section, which is ideal for posting enquiries about family histories. If you're searching in a particular local area, they're an excellent way of asking for information from the local community directly.

The sites cover communities in Ayrshire, Fife, Stirling, Falkirk, Lanarkshire, West Lothian, Inverclyde, Argyll and Bute, Renfrewshire and Edinburgh. If you look at one of the sites - www.s1strathaven.com for example - there's a full list of all the areas covered at the bottom of the page.

If you'd like more information about posting to the sites (which are completely free to use), you can email me at ross.mckay@s1now.com

Re: locations in Scotland - Shire help ~1815

June_Black — 2013-04-12 15:08:35Z

Hi!
Looks like Catherine McKay (alternate spelling) of Rosehall and William Smith of Calder Works both Old Monkland Parish married on 25 Feb 1849.
Familysearch & Ancestry indicate that Catherine & first husband James Winning (who married in Barony parish, of which West Muir was an area, in 1836) had at last 4 children. Looks like they were in Shettleston in 1841 Census & Robert, James & Margaret (at 14,12 & 10 respectively)were with their grandparents at the time of the 1851 census in....... Old Monkland parish (@ Easter Row, Baillieston) . The grandparents are "transcribed" as James & Margaret Mathie (both age 54).
Youngest daughter Robina married David McKinlay in High Church, Glasgow in 1864 & died in Baillieston in 1881, her death cert on Scotlandspeople confirms her parentage.
You certainly need to Google the traditional Scottish parishes as this will help you in your research.
Also beware of possible name changes or alterations in spelling due to transcription errors or illiteracy.
Hope this helps. June

Re: locations in Scotland - Shire help ~1815

June_Black — 2013-04-12 14:41:10Z

Hi there!
My great grandmother was a McKay, and the family name has been documented in so many ways including Mackie, which is perhaps what the "Mathie" is transcribed from, so I totally understand the situation.
The marriage on Scotlandspeople is under OPR Banns & Marriages. I input Catherine McKey (with normal surname & forename variants) & William Smith between the years 1843 (date of last child's birth)and 1854 (end of period). Only one record was listed, in Lanark (county) & Old Monkland or Coatbridge (parish) 652/00/0030/0320 on 25 Feb 1849.
Robina's marriage to David McKinlay was on 1 Jan 1864 (familysearch) and her death on 25 Mar 1881 @ 372 Duke St, Glasgow (Dennistoun parish), aged 37, lists her mother as Catherine Smith formerly Winning maiden surname McKay.(Scotlandspeople Statutory Deaths 644/03 0479)
Incidentally I had a look on Ancestry in the 1851 census for Robina & found what seems to be her (age 7 b abt 1844 Barony, Lanark) as a grandchild in the household of Robert Winning (55) Coal miner and his wife , Robina(54) & family @ Clyde Ironworks, Old Monkland. Both grandparents appear to have been born in Lanarkshire. I found a marriage on Scotlandspeople - 12 Nov 1815 @ Glasgow Barony for Robert Winning & Rabina Hill, and on familysearch a birth on 26 Jan 1816 in Barony of James Winning (batch code C11968-9)
Cheers,
June

Re: locations in Scotland - Shire help ~1815

DZzmiller — 2013-04-12 13:38:06Z

Hi June,
Thanks, that's very helpful. Can you tell me the source of the McKay/Smith wedding in 1849? I can't seem to pull that out of the scotlandspeople database.
Catherine did leave her children behind when she remarried and immigrated. So it does seem that the "mathie" records are correct. I looked at the original document and it could be "Makie". The handwriting is fairly poor and it appears written over. I'm hoping to find the "Mathies" in the 1841 or other census, but so far no luck. This may be evidence that 'Mathie' was a mistake.
The only place I've seen "McKey" is on Catherine's tombstone. Other records indicate "McKay".
Thanks again, Don

Re: Local community websites

GordonPertJohnson — 2013-04-11 22:22:30Z

But if you are into Family History, your first port of call is to join the nearest Family History Society, and you will get all the information you need through them. They are the expert group for their locality. If there is a community website that is of any help, then it will be contactable through that family history society.

Re: locations in Scotland - Shire help ~1815

DZzmiller — 2013-04-11 20:42:05Z

Thanks. With a bit of googling it seems that Westmuir refers to a coalpit that was on the east side of Glasgow. I do know that James died coal mining in 1843. Catherine McKey remarried and the family immigrated to St. Loius where her second husband died in a coal mine in 1875.
(All of which leads me to understand the Scotish interest in wind energy and North Sea oil)
Anyone have a source for Parish maps in this time period? I would like to know if parish Barony includes Glasgow's east side.

Re: locations in Scotland - Shire help ~1815

mackingen — 2013-04-11 19:28:41Z

It looks like it says James Winning, collier, Westmuir, and Catherine McKay residing there. There is a Westmuir village in Angus if that is the one you are looking for.

Re: locations in Scotland - Shire help ~1815

DZzmiller — 2013-04-11 19:05:14Z

Attached is the marriage record of my ancestor's first marriage. Can you recognize this place? Thanks
The Microfilm header say County: Lanark, Parish: Barony. But I can't read the handwriting.

Re: locations in Scotland - Shire help ~1815

DZzmiller — 2013-04-11 18:24:10Z

It seems quite legible. Attached is the note.

Re: locations in Scotland - Shire help ~1815

DonGillies61 — 2013-04-11 17:22:22Z

I wouldn't have thought so, since a 'shire' is a county. How legible is the handwriting - is it definitely not Nairnshire ?

Re: locations in Scotland - Shire help ~1815

DZzmiller — 2013-04-11 15:36:06Z

Thanks for responding. It has been disappointing to have seemingly specific yet so far meaningless information.
I've wondered if "New Shire" simply refers to the New Town section of Edinburgh.

Re: locations in Scotland - Shire help ~1815

DonGillies61 — 2013-04-11 14:30:31Z

As the lack of response suggests, there is nothing within these placenames which is recognisable of any Scottish locations.

locations in Scotland - Shire help ~1815

DZzmiller — 2013-04-09 12:34:30Z

My gggrandmother left a note listing the birth place of her Scottish parents:

"Catherine McKey born in East New Manchestershire in 1818 May 11th" and

"William D Smith born Scotland East House New Shire Dec. 5th 1815"

Any suggestions as to the location of these places? Thanks.

Re: Obtaining a birth certificate from Scotland

sjeanne82 — 2013-03-13 00:14:03Z

Thank you!!!! Thank you!!! Thank you!!! I found the image on ScotlandsPeople. Trying to order an original now. Thank you all so much for your help!!

Re: Obtaining a birth certificate from Scotland

DonGillies61 — 2013-03-12 22:03:54Z

I agree with eajaneharrison's reply to your posting. The original poster said that she was looking for a "birth certificate", so she will not be able to obtain that from familysearch.org

Birth certificates did not apply in Scotland until 1855.

Re: Obtaining a birth certificate from Scotland

eajaneharrison97 — 2013-03-12 14:11:30Z

Hi,
The images from www.familysearch.ord are just for baptisms.
If you want a copy of the original birth entry from after 1855 you will have to go to http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk . It is a ppv site credits cost £7 for 30 and it is 6 credits to view and download the image .

Re: Obtaining a birth certificate from Scotland

pamhogg1 — 2013-03-11 23:55:39Z

Hi.
If you go on the Family Search Website www.familysearch.org
look under the heading Family History Centres (which is at the top of the page in the 'beige' area)you will be able to find your local centre. You will be able to order the film that this is on and print it off yourself. this is the most economical way as it will only cost you the short term hire charge which I think for you will be about $8 +shipping.

If you look up your grandfather's details on their site before you go you will find the film number or batch number that they will need. If not they are usually a nice bunch and may help you anyway. failing that if you have a problem I could look it up for you. However not everything is on there so I can only try.

good luck. Pam

Re: Obtaining a birth certificate from Scotland

DonGillies61 — 2013-02-13 17:45:17Z

Agree with Gordon. And to add to that, the process for finding the birth certificate of Jeanne's grandfather (which will be after statutory registration began in 1855), is different to the process of finding pre-1855 birth records.

Re: Obtaining a birth certificate from Scotland

GordonPertJohnson — 2013-02-13 11:43:15Z

It should not be difficult to explain, as there is only one possible source - Scottish church registers. If you have any other "source", it is a secondary source, not the original.
Gordon.

Re: Obtaining a birth certificate from Scotland

1_stephro — 2013-02-12 22:34:31Z

jeanne,
i easily found my ggp who he was born 1787 in scotland on net .
do you want to let me know his infos.... name, surname,birth,marriage,death or anything you know about him.

i can try to find him and tell you where i found that
(hard to explain it)

rolande

Re: Obtaining a birth certificate from Scotland

DonGillies61 — 2013-02-11 08:18:59Z

Via the Governmental website www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

You can view a photocopy of the certificate for £7, once you've registered and bought some credits, but only if his birth occurred more than 100 years ago. You would need to know where and when he was born (unless he has a very unusual name). If you require an official copy for legal reasons, then you would need to apply, via the same website, for an extract, which costs £12. The extracts can be ordered even if the birth is less than 100 years old.

Obtaining a birth certificate from Scotland

sjeanne82 — 2013-02-11 03:18:05Z

Does anyone know how I can request my grandfather's birth certificate from Scotland when I live in the US?

Re: Adoption records for Scotland 1870s

JoyceHN — 2013-02-09 14:41:19Z

I think there is some confusion on dates here - the George Mercar(er) you have in the 1881 census is listed as being born in 1877 in Hamilton, not 1869-1871.

There is a matching birth for George in Hamilton in 1877, to a Jane Mercer domestic servant and registered by grandmother Isabella. Isabella MIGHT be the Isabella Miller, widow of John Mercer, who is living with her son George in Hamilton in the 1881 census. In that case, the mother Jane died in 1885. However, this is just based on my quick look for possible Mercer families in the Hamilton area so you will have to check all of this out properly.

Re: Adoption records for Scotland 1870s

janelle_sim — 2013-02-09 12:04:40Z

Thanks for this additional information :-) Another important fact that I have is that I have 'George Sim' on the boat to Australia (on the Scottish Wizard) with Dinah and James in 1882 aged 4 (which would like up with him being born 'about 1877'). The first official document I have where you uses the full name George Mercer Sim is on his Marriage Certificate (1909). So there is definitely a Mercer connection. I will have a look at the names you have suggested to see if it might be a match. Thanks!

Re: Adoption records for Scotland 1870s

eajaneharrison97 — 2013-02-09 11:14:13Z

My mistake I miss read as 1870.
The details on the death cert would have been provided by the person registering the death .
They most likely would only have known the names of his adoptive parents especially if he was not adopted by a family member.

Re: Adoption records for Scotland 1870s

janelle_sim — 2013-02-09 07:52:42Z

Hi there, I'm just waiting to see the birth certificate. The George Mercar you found on the Scotland's People site is probably my great grandfather. I have seen his name spelled like this on the census of 1871 which is where he is listed as adopted. In later records his name is spelled George Mercer Sim (Sim being the name of his adopted (?) parents so presumably Mercer/Mercar being the biological parents. As I've been told, in earlier responses, that adoption records don't exist for this time so I'm hoping there'll be more clues on the birth certificate. I have tried searching for other Mercer's living close to my great great grandparents or that were in some way related that may not have been able to support George, but I haven't had any luck so far.

The names on the death certificate are incorrect. They show the father as being 'James' (which, if the Census is correct, is his adopted father) and the mother being 'Dinah Mercer'. Which is incorrect, her name was Dinah Rose (and, again, this would be her adopted son if the Census is correct).

I only have the marriage index details listed on Ancestry.com.au, not the full marriage certificate. I'm not sure if Australian marriage certificates contain such detailed information.

Thanks for your help!

Re: Adoption records for Scotland 1870s

eajaneharrison97 — 2013-02-08 14:59:07Z

Do you have Georges birth cert ?
My grandmother had a son before she married . This son was adopted . We did not know of his existence until we were contacted by his daughter.(sadly after his death)
She sent us a copy of his birth cert. It had my grandmothers name on it as mother and said adopted at birth.
Both his marriage certs gave his adoptive parents names . His death cert had no parents named.
If you knew his approx dob it may be worth checking out Scotland's People's births.
Sorry I have no credits left but I did a quick search and there is only 1 Gorge Mercer/Mercar born in Scotland 1869-1871 .

Re: Adoption records for Scotland 1870s

janelle_sim — 2013-02-08 13:54:34Z

Thanks for the tips - I didn't know about the ScotlandsPeople census pages so I will give that a try!

Re: Adoption records for Scotland 1870s

janelle_sim — 2013-02-08 13:53:58Z

Thank's for your response - it means I can stop searching for adoption records :) I will take your advice and try to find another connection between the families. Unfortunately it isn't possible to see the image of the census records for Scotland they way that I have been doing for England, where you can scroll through to see all the other people living in the area. I'll have use my best detective skills ;-)

Thanks again!

Janelle

Re: place called Linkenson?

bakerj151 — 2013-02-08 00:49:50Z

Thanks so much for your responses and suggestions.

I posted on another board also and someone there suggested that there are places named Linkens in the nearby parish of Rerrick, Nether Linkens & Upper Linkens. (There seems to be a possible family connection to Upper Linkens so this is the best bet so far).

I was able to get a copy of the 1861 census. Its for Glenlocker Lodge,Crossmichael Parish with Robert Carruthers,head of household,married to Mary Lindsay (27yrs). Robert looks to be 'a Shepherd away to Linkenson'. Ann Wallace is his mother.

If anyone had access to the census record, I would never turn down an offer of having another set of eyes for an opinion. But I wouldn't want anyone to inconvenience their own research as it seems Upper LInkens is a likely location.

thanks again,
Lyn

Re: Adoption records for Scotland 1870s

judithstrachan1 — 2013-02-08 00:45:08Z

You can see and download the census pages at ScotlandsPeople. It's a pay to use site but if you know what you're after it's good value.

Glad to be of help!

Judy

Re: Adoption records for Scotland 1870s

judithstrachan1 — 2013-02-08 00:16:15Z

I'm afraid there won't be any records, as the Adoption of Children (Scotland) Act only came into being in 1930. Before that adoptions were just arranged privately.

It sounds as if he kept his original name of George Mercer, so you could look to see if there was a baptism of someone in the area with that name. It should give the names of his parents, or of his mother if he was illegitimate. I wouldn't be surprised if the adopting family were relatives or neighbours, as that kind of adoption was actually quite common.

I have a girl on my tree who was adopted out from the family of one of my ancestors. The mother died when the girl when only two months old, leaving the father a widow with five children. The baby was adopted by a couple who only lived a few doors away, and they kept her original name and surname in each census, and she used that name when she married.

Because there was no legal form of adoption, I think the term "adopted" on the census often just meant "is being brought up by".

Adoption records for Scotland 1870s

janelle_sim — 2013-02-07 23:50:47Z

Hello, my great grandfather (George Mercer Sim - name on death certificate) is shown on the 1881 Census as being adopted (name shows George Mercar, adopted parents names Dinah Sim nee Rose and James Sim). The census shows him being born in Hamiliton, Lanark, Scotland.

Are Scottish adoption records available online? James Sim is shown as a dock worker, this is not a well off family, is it unusual for people at this time to adopt a child? They already had several children.

Any assistance with regards to how to track down more information about my great grandfather and his adoption would be greatly appreciated!

Re: where is this address? - Croft Cott, Broomhouse, MT Vernon

kazlovell — 2013-01-29 14:10:13Z

http://www.londontown.com/LondonStreets/mount_vernon_7b3.htm...

I think that could be it, I maybe wrong, so don't hold me to that

There is a Broomhouse in Glasgow, Scotland too, with a station names Mount Vernon, just to confuse matters, sorry

Re: Burnbank, Scotland

celiaskelton — 2013-01-25 21:05:51Z

Just noticed - the reply I posted to Caroline - her Mary's mother's name was McNicol, looks as if it's your person! Celia

Re: Burnbank, Scotland

celiaskelton — 2013-01-25 21:01:06Z

Caroline, your best way to get Scottish records online is at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk You see the actual records ruling out other peoples transcription errors. I've attached Mary Reid's marriage. You'll see you can get ages, occupations and both parents names. The writing on this one isn't the easiest but if you get stuck people on ancestry will help you. Good luck with the rest. Celia

Re: Burnbank, Scotland

CarolineWhitehall — 2013-01-25 18:23:58Z

Hi

My gran mother also came from Burnbank, Hamilton, Lanarkshire, Scotland. When looking on ancestory do you need to look on the Glasgow records to trace people in Hamilton. Just signed up for a free trial this week. I am trying to trace Mary Reid maiden name who became a Howie.

Re: place called Linkenson?

JanetFyfe — 2013-01-20 13:05:14Z

Probably best thing would be to download the original census document from the ScotlandsPeople website. Ancestry transcriptions tend to have lots of errors where handwriting may be difficult to read.
Alternatively, if you contact me directly with the details of who you are looking for, I can look this up for you when I visit the ScotlandsPeople Centre next month.

Re: place called Linkenson?

Tartania — 2013-01-18 22:42:54Z

I wonder whether it might be Libberton (a parish in Lanarkshire) ?

Re: Burials after 1855

mi2early — 2013-01-11 01:53:25Z

You'll get better results if you post on the appropriate individual boards and provide the names and details of your ancestors.

Good luck!

Re: Burials after 1855

soozi27 — 2013-01-10 23:27:50Z

I have a few in Glasgow, Rothesay & also Kingussie.

Re: Burials after 1855

mi2early — 2013-01-10 23:07:10Z

In what part of the country?

Burials after 1855

soozi27 — 2013-01-10 22:41:36Z

Would anyone know where to search for burials (Scotland)after 1855?
Suzie

Re: Scotlands People

DonGillies61 — 2012-12-30 11:34:12Z

Have you viewed William's marriage & death certificates ? Very often they will say something along the lines of Mother : Mary Walker - subsequently married to .....

Can you contact me at dgsw07438@sky.com

Don

Re: Scotlands People

RosieSWA — 2012-12-30 11:00:14Z

Correct, it is in relation to William Walker. His birth certificate states Redcastle (?) parish of Inverkeillor. Mary Walker Mother (her mark x), illegitimate. I have been looking at the census with Alexander and Susan, grandson William living with them, but I don't know how connect that Mary Walker to my Mary Walker. I don't know if it is something very basic I am missing or what, but I am having no luck. I don't know if she got married and that is why I can not find her. I am just stuck.

Re: Scotlands People

DonGillies61 — 2012-12-30 09:02:43Z

Looking at your other posts, I assume this is in relation to William Walker ? As you've found out, illegitimacy can make it very difficult to prove conclusively that you have the correct person.

His mother Mary was probably the daughter of Alexander Walker and Susan Stewart, who had a daughter of that name on the 11th March 1841. In 1861 & 1871 Alexander & Susan were living at Mary Ann's Butts in Inverkeillor. Was this by any chance the birthplace on William's birth certificate ?

Re: Scotlands People

elwynsoutter1 — 2012-12-30 08:47:24Z

For a death in 1941 what you see on the on-line version is exactly the same as the extracted version. It’s simply printed on official paper and can be used for legal purposes. That’s the only difference.

A Scottish birth certificate does not record the place of birth of the parents. It does however record where and when they married (if they were married), save for the years 1856 – 1859 when that information was omitted.

A Scottish death certificate does record the place of death but does not record the person’s place of birth. I would try to find that out by searching the censuses. In this case the censuses for the years 1871 – 1911 which are on-line on the Scotlandspeople site.

If you don’t know where she was living in those years, then try looking for her parent’s marriage (their names should normally be on her death certificate, assuming the informant knew that information). Then after you find that marriage, search in the next census in the general area of the marriage. If you can’t find that marriage, look for her marriage and then search backwards in the area she was living when she married.