Dufferin - Family History & Genealogy Message Board

Re: Whitten property

hewitt48 — 2013-04-08 17:10:14Z

So glad you found the tombstones of your ancestors in the Greenwood Cemetery.

I have been to the Flesherton Cemetery where your other ancestors were laid to rest.

I am presuming you have not yet been there.

Here is a death notice you may or may not already have for Thomas Whitten of Flesherton :

http://news2.ourontario.ca/1124896/data?n=6

Looking forward to hearing about your visit to the Flesherton Cemetery.

Kind Regards.

Re: Whitten property

janfors — 2013-04-08 16:09:17Z

Thought so....thanks.

Yes, I found them all in the Greenwood Cemetary. Thanks! Sometime in the spring/ summer I will get up to the Cemetary in Flesherton where the direct line of my Whitten relatives are. My grandparents and great grandparents are buried in Park Lawn Cemetary in the west end of Toronto but prior to that they are all in Flesherton.
Off to look at Streetview
Janet

Re: Whitten property

hewitt48 — 2013-04-08 15:41:02Z

Hello again. And how was your trip to the Greenwood cemetery ?

Where you able to find Robert and Thomas Whitten's tombstone ?

Did you get a look at 48 Bythia Street on Google Maps Streetview ?

It was Sarah Ann Whitten, Thomas Hewitt and their son, my grandfather who lived here if indeed it is the right house.

I think this may have been the Hewitt/Whitten farmhouse back in the late 1800s, but until I have solid proof through registry records, I remain skeptical.

Re: Whitten property

hewitt48 — 2013-04-08 15:24:15Z

Thanks Sheila for this reminder.

At some point I am going to go to the Orangeville registry office and see if I can prove this. Unless I can get someone to do it for me. I want solid proof.

There is no doubt the house is very old because of the height and shape of the windows which appear to be the original ones.

It is wonderful to still have so much history around us!

Thanks once again, I really appreciate this.

Re: Whitten property

janfors — 2013-04-08 15:22:48Z

Hey Henry
Hope you have had a good winter and looking forward to Spring....if it ever gets here!

Been reading these notes between you and Sheila. I presume this was the Hewitt/Whitten house at one point.....with your ancestor that married mine. I know the two families lived beside each other at one point. So....which Whitten would have lived in this house?
Thanks!
Janet Whitten Forsayeth

Whitten property

sheiladavidson11 — 2013-04-08 14:16:47Z

Hi again Henry,
I have looked up the email Steve Brown sent to me regarding the property and it says in part ...

"In modern terms, the property would be everything lying west of Bythia Street to Dawson Road, and from the Town Line north to somewhere not too far north of Church Street.
... the farm buildings were at the end of old Church Street, that big grey house that is still there and there was a barn behind it. To the best of my knowledge there were no other buildings on that stretch of property.

Hope this answers your question about Thomas Hewitt's "Orchardview" farm."

As you know, Steve Brown is a very reliable source and I think you can be assured that the house in question belonged to your ancestor.

Re: Objet : Re: Objet : Re: Thomas, Andrew, Robert WHITTEN

sheiladavidson11 — 2013-04-08 13:41:45Z

Hi Henry,
Yes quite certain it is the original house or at least one that has been modified over the years.
At the time I was helping you with your research, it was Steve Brown, the Dufferin Archivist, who told me where the Hewitt house was and that is the place that is for sale now. Hewitt street is directly behind this property.
Hope all is well with you and your research.

Re: Objet : Re: Objet : Re: Thomas, Andrew, Robert WHITTEN

hewitt48 — 2013-04-08 12:52:42Z

Hi Sheila, it has been a long time since I have heard from you. Thank you for this tip.

How do you know it is really the Hewitt farmhouse ?

I have always presumed it to be a farmhouse, but have not checked any records. But I do know that the land behind it was once known as Orchard View Farm and was in my great grandfather's hands at one time. And I am presuming that Hewitt Street which runs through the middle was named after him too.

Through my research since posting on the Dufferin boards years ago, I was able to pinpoint the exact location of my ancestors in Northern Ireland.

Have a wonderful springtime Sheila. And thanks again for all your help in the past.

Re: Objet : Re: Objet : Re: Thomas, Andrew, Robert WHITTEN

sheiladavidson11 — 2013-04-07 23:17:25Z

Hi Henry
Just thought you might be interested to know that the Hewitt homestead is now up for sale ….

http://www.thegrimeteam.incomrealestate.com/idx/get_property...

Old Grand Valley Newspapers

wendyandmark1 — 2013-04-05 15:58:15Z

Hi, I'm looking for old Grand Valley Newspapers back to the early 1800s right up to about late 1900s. My Davey relatives lived here & I love looking through old papers to find obits, weddings, etc. for my family history.

If anyone has any of these, would you please e-mail me directly at louiseedgar@tnt21.com

Thank you. Louise

HENDERSON, Abraham "Currie"

jsrawn — 2013-03-17 18:37:43Z

Seeking information on Abraham "Currie" HENDERSON for family tree. I believe one of Currie's daughters, Rita, lived in the Maritimes. Her sister, Zella, was married to Robert Higgins and lived in Dryden ON. They had a son, "Bob" married to "Marg", and a daughter, "Gwett?". Have been told that Currie died in the late '40's and is buried just outside Dryden, ON. There were other children as well, including a son, Orville (or Orval).
Currie was b. Mar. 28, 1883 in Mulmur Twp., Dufferin Co., ON
Any leads would be greatly appreciated.
Joan Rawn

Re: Orangeville Cemetery lookup - ARMSTRONG

sheiladavidson11 — 2013-02-22 15:18:37Z

Found the 1860 marriage of Andrew Nesbitt and Margaret Jane Armstrong in the registers of St. Mark's Anglican, Orangeville, but the maiden names of both mothers are not given.

Re: Orangeville Cemetery lookup - ARMSTRONG

sheiladavidson11 — 2013-02-22 02:05:39Z

Cannot find the marriage in the registers of St. Andrews Presbyterian/United or First Avenue Methodist/United.

Re: Orangeville Cemetery lookup - ARMSTRONG

jimward101 — 2013-02-21 22:45:35Z

Hi Sheila,
Thank you again for providing so much information. It is a great help. In fact, I had the wrong John ARMSTRONG's death (I had assumed it was the one who died in 1877). Their children sure died young.

Yes, I believe that the Martha NESBITT who married McNIGHT is a sister to my Andrew, however have not been ablt to prove it yet. Andrew did not give a maiden name for his mother when he married in Orangeville in 1860. I wonder if any church records exist for that time? They may contain his mothers surname?

Take care,
Jim...

Re: Orangeville Cemetery lookup - ARMSTRONG

sheiladavidson11 — 2013-02-21 18:10:52Z

Greenwood Cemetery, Orangeville, Block B -
Section XXI - plots 1 & 2
John Armstrong died Sept 22 1869 aged 66 yrs.
Henry son of above died Aug 16 1869 aged 26 yrs.
Mary Armstrong died April 22 1880 aged 74 yrs.
Anna M. Armstrong died Feb. 5 1907 aged 54 yrs.
Thomas H. Armstrong died March 1 1886 aged 23 yrs 8 mos.
Sarah Ann died July 21 1870 aged 21 yrs.
No other vital info provided.

I assume you have seen this record, but in case not ... I think this Martha must have been a sister to Andrew.

Name:Martha Nesbitt
Birth Place:Monaghan, Ireland
Residence:Toronto
Age:36
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1830
Father Name:Robert Nesbitt
Mother Name:Jane Rodger

Spouse Name:Robert McKnight
Spouse's Age:41
Spouse Birth Year:abt 1825
Spouse Birth Place:Monaghan Ireland
Spouse Residence:Toronto
Spouse Father Name:Matthew McKnight
Spouse Mother Name:Lillie Anne Baxter
Marriage Date:22 Jan 1866
Marriage County or District:York

Re: Orangeville Cemetery lookup - ARMSTRONG

jimward101 — 2013-02-20 19:35:45Z

Hi Sheila,
Thanks for your additional info. I just noticed that you mentioned earlier that Marjery's parents John ARMSTRONG (died 1877) & Mary BOWLES (died 1880) are buried at Greenwood. Can you provide any info from their cemetery data? Always hoping to get definitive birthplaces. I wonder if there is any more besides their death dates.

Take care,
Jim...

Re: Orangeville Cemetery lookup - ARMSTRONG

sheiladavidson11 — 2013-02-20 02:51:57Z

Hi Jim,
Yes, I now know that the older James Armstrong is not the James in question. His first wife was still living when James and Margory had their first child, James, who was born Feb 1 1860 not 1863 as later records indicate.
The baptisms of the 3 known children of James & Margory appear in the records of St. Mark's Anglican in Orangeville ... James born 1860, Thomas Henry born 1862 and Elizabeth Jane born 1865.
I am fairly certain that there is no more vital information in the death notice for Margory Armstrong than what I provided. I also cannot locate James Jr. after 1901 ... the Armstrong name is common and the possibles are endless.
I find it strange that Elizabeth Jane was not with her mother Margory in 1871 when she would have only been about 6 and she did not die young as she married in 1888 in Orangeville to a John Graham.
The only info I have on Andrew Nesbitt is that he was identified as a Saloon Keeper in the 1861 census of Mono Township. I do not know where exactly, but assume from known locations of his neighbours that it was in the west part of the township, close to Orangeville.
You might want to consider contacting the Dufferin Archives for help in your research. Costs are reasonable. They have Tax Rolls and countless other records that would likely provide the answers you need. www.dufferinmuseum.com Hope this will help. Sheila

Re: Orangeville Cemetery lookup - ARMSTRONG

jimward101 — 2013-02-20 02:10:31Z

Hi,
I did not mean to give the impression I do not have much on Andrew NESBITT. I have a fair bit, however in trying to track him back to Monaghan Ireland I am looking for more elusive clues, such as items about him in Orangeville in the 1860's, before he moved to Markdale. Maybe something will crop up about siblings or his arrival???

Thanks again,
Jim...

Re: Orangeville Cemetery lookup - ARMSTRONG

jsrawn — 2013-02-19 21:37:25Z

Mention of Andrew's death in Flesherton Advance Newspaper.
Look to lower right side of page for Maxwell News.

http://news.ourontario.ca/GHPL/112947/page/5?n=1&q=nesbi...

Re: Orangeville Cemetery lookup - ARMSTRONG

jimward101 — 2013-02-19 19:14:06Z

Hi Sheila,
Thank you for responding. Yes, Marjery was the Widow on the 1871 census with her brother Thomas and son James. Her husband James Armstrong (both had same surname, but different parents!) indicated his age as 30 when they married in 1859, so I can assume is not the same one as you mention being born 1807.
Do you think there would be anything more in her death notice in the paper?
I am hoping to track down more on her son James, although he is proving elusive [primarily due to when he likely died, about the 1920's or so], as I only have him on the 1901 census in Orangeville.
My goal is to actually track down an Andrew NESBITT (1834-1900) who died in Markdale, and was married to Marjery's sister Margaret Jane ARMSTRONG, in Orangeville 1860. He was apparently a Hotel keeper in Orangeville about that time. I have no real access to Orangeville historical information out here in BC.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Take care,
Jim...

Re: Orangeville Cemetery lookup - ARMSTRONG

sheiladavidson11 — 2013-02-19 17:53:43Z

Hi Jim
Her death record indicates she died Oct 9 1908 in Orangeville, a widow, daughter of John Armstrong & Mary Bowles. They are buried in Greenwood, Orangeville.
Marjery Armstrong's death notice in the Orangeville Banner indicates she was also buried in Greenwood Cemetery, Orangeville. However, there is no listing for her in the gravestone transcripts.
Details of her death notice (sorry don't have a copy, only notes) says she was aged 75, born Ireland died Orangeville; mother of James; sister of Mrs. Joshua Leader.
I am curious. She was listed in the 1871 census as married, but no spouse was listed - living with her brother Thomas.
Is it possible that the James Armstrong she married was the James 1807-1881 who previously married a Catharine who died in 1863? This James & Catharine are both buried in St. John's cemetery in Mono Township and they had a daughter Susannah who married a Ward.

Orangeville Cemetery lookup - ARMSTRONG

jimward101 — 2013-02-18 23:42:14Z

Hello, I am looking for some family members who would be buried at Orangeville. They include Marjery ARMSTRONG (1838-1908, and her husband James ARMSTRONG (c.1829-??) They had at least 2 sons, James in 1863 and Thomas Henry in c.1864. I know Marjery died in Orangeville, so should be buried there.

Can anyone help with a lookup?
Thanks in advance,
Jim Ward

Newspaper Lookup

RobbieMcCauley — 2013-02-10 18:37:16Z

Hello:

My name is Robert McCauley and have been researching the family of 'Thomas French' in the Amaranth Twp. area who lived there between the early 1850's and died in 1869. From the Amarath history book I ordered I learned that Thomas's son Alonzo French owned a hotel in Whittington on Lot 16 Con 1 (west 1/2. And it was burned down in 1873. I was wondering if someone could look up or has any newspaper articles written about the fire. This may be in the Orangeville sun or a Shelburne newspaper?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Robert

Re: WRIGGLESWORTH

marsea77 — 2013-01-29 18:48:57Z

I can look up names and post them, along with dates. I didn't initially because both Hornings Mills and Honeywood located in Dufferin County, Ontario, Canada are tiny hamlets near the Town of Shelburne. Any WRIGGLESWORTH from any of these places are all part of the same family.

They came to Canada from Bugthorpe, Yorkshire and first settled in Oxford County, Ontario. One branch then moved to Ashgrove near Milton, Ontario, before at least one brother moved to Hornings Mills.

The area was then called "Yorkshire Settlement", as so many from Yorkshire, England came over to this part of Ontario.

WRIGGLESWORTH and WIGGLESWORTH are apparently 2 different families, however Artemesia in Grey County Ontario is not all that far from Dufferin County, so a WRIGGLESWORTH from Artemesia could be related to ours.

Re: WRIGGLESWORTH

kimmills135 — 2013-01-29 18:26:20Z

I have an Elizabeth WIGGLESWORTH born abt 1831 in Toronto. I don't know who her parents are.
She married a Robert WILLIAMS 8 Dec 1854 in Toronto. The family moved to Illinois, USA for quite a few years, before returning to Artemesia Township, Grey Co.
Does she connect to you?

Re: Smith and Colgan family's of Amaranth township

kimmills135 — 2013-01-29 18:12:16Z

I've found a little more interesting info on the William HALL and Mary SMITH family, that moved from Amaranth twp. to Artemesia Twp.

I was looking through the cemetery photos online and found an abandoned cemetery in Artemesia twp. It says that it was a Methodist cemetery that was long ago abandoned, some head stones have been removed and some are damaged.
http://geneofun.on.ca/cems/ON/ONGRY10880

BUT there was a stone there for Mary SMITH wife of William HALL, it shows she died in 1865.

It also shows their daughter Margaret as the wife of John LEARY. There are two stones for this Margaret, she was recorded on her parents stone at the bottom and also had a large head stone that is more easily read.
Going by census records Margaret and John LEARY had 2 children before she died. Ester LEARY born abt 1858, William LEARY born abt 1860. After she died John LEARY married a Frances Hamilton on 14 Jan 1868 in Meaford.

There is also a stone for Mary Ann HALL wife of John WILLIAMS.

Then there is one for a James WILLIAMS born 1854 died 1865, son of John and Mary WILLIAMS.

The child James WILLIAMS, I think is the son of the German John WILLIAMS who lived in Artemesia next to my family in 1861 census. I looked at the census again and he has a son James WILLIAM born in 1854 in the 1861 census. The later census show a James WILLIAM who is much younger. They likely named the next born son after the son who died. They were Methodist so would have used this cemetery.

However, there is also another James WILLIAMS born in 1854 further up on the same census page, staying with another family.

I haven't been able to find the marriage of Mary Ann HALL to John WILLIAMS. I'm wondering if that John WILLIAMS was the one who married Mary Ann's sister Elizabeth HALL. Perhaps after Mary Ann died he married her sister.

Re: WRIGGLESWORTH

satch42179 — 2013-01-29 18:07:03Z

Do you have any names?
When did they immigrate?

WRIGGLESWORTH

marsea77 — 2013-01-29 17:05:10Z

I am wondering if anyone has information about the history of the WRIGGLESWORTH family who came from Bugthorpe, Yorkshire, England & eventually settled in Hornings Mills & Honeywood, now both in Dufferin County.

Re: Smith and Colgan family's of Amaranth township

kimmills135 — 2013-01-26 01:05:11Z

Thanks! I've been working on this family further and the Maria HALL who married Joshua BOWLER has me puzzled. Her death record listed her father as Thomas HALL and mother as SMITH, no first name.

She would have married Joshua BOWLER about 1876, but I couldn't find their marriage in the marriage records on Ancestry.
It would help to see if it listed her father and mother. I have a suspicion that the name Thomas HALL on her death record *might* be an error. Perhaps the person mixed up her father and grandfather? I have seen that happen before.
William HALL and Mary SMITH had a daughter Maria the right age and I can't find a trace of her after the 1861 census. I wonder if they are the same Maria HALL...

The only Thomas HALL I could find lived in Proton township, but his wife was Elizabeth WALKER.

I did find that Joshua BOWLERS older brother William Smith BOWLER married Wilmott WILLIAMS sister to the John WILLIAMS Elizabeth HALL married.

The parents of Joshua were William BOWLER and ANN SMITH. I would have to do further digging, but it looks as though That SMITH line is English and came to Quebec, the BOWLER children were born there before moving to Artemesia Twp. ONT. The WILLIAMS family came from Devon, England according to some death records and I found them there in the 1841 England Census. In 1851 Wilmott WILLIAMS is found in Quebec working as a domestic, there are other SMITHS on the page. Her parents John WILLIAMS Sr. and wife Catharine HALE and brothers Robert, John (married Elizabeth HALL) and Henry were in Artemesia TWP. at that time. I suspect they lived in Quebec for a little while.

I was working on that line hoping to find something to point to the HALL/SMITH line.

Re: Reids of East Garafraxa

jamieandsharon47 — 2013-01-25 13:13:20Z

Debbie....I am your cousin Sharon (Margarets daughter)... There are a lot more of us. I wish I had of checked this earlier. I only hope you see this and we can have a reunion. Kathleen,Bernice,Margaret and Ivy are still with us and in good health

Re: Smith and Colgan family's of Amaranth township

ropetc502 — 2013-01-18 00:19:38Z

Not much from me tonight, it was interesting to follow through your research.

From the birth record of Robert Edward WILLIAMS (s/o John WILLIAMS & Eliza HALL) it shows the informant's (father in this case) residence as Lot 22 Concession 11 Artemesia. This is what I found:

Crown 1858 - John HALL
N-1/2 - no HALL names
S-1/2 - William HALL, other names

I don't have access to the detailed property records, I just have the summary that is in the Artemesia book - Split Rail Country.

I haven't found where the German WILLIAMS family was living in 1861, but it wasn't too close. Maybe with a smaller population, it just looks like they were neighbours from the 1861 census.

Re: Smith and Colgan family's of Amaranth township

kimmills135 — 2013-01-17 22:55:03Z

Ok, I'm getting some where. :)

This is the marriage record for John WILLIAM and Elizabeth HALL. It shows Elizabeth is the daughter of William and Mary. Again no maiden name for Mary, but given that two of her daughters Elizabeth WILLIAMS and Matilda SMITH were heirs in the estate, I think it's a safe bet that she is a daughter of Thomas SMITH.

Name: John Williams
Birth Place: Canada
Residence: Artemesia Township
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Father Name: John
Mother Name: Catherine
Spouse Name: Elizabeth Hall
Spouse's Age: 24
Spouse Birth Year: abt 1843
Spouse Birth Place: Ireland
Spouse Residence: Artemesia Township
Spouse Father Name: William
Spouse Mother Name: Mary
Marriage Date: 1 Jan 1867
Marriage County or District: Grey

I've been trying to follow the family and it looks like John and Elizabeth moved to Sault Sainte Marie, Chippewa, Michigan after 1881.
Her family is found in the census there. She died in 1915, her death record listed her father as William HALL, no mother listed.
http://cdm16317.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection...

Edited to add: I found another Find a Grave entry with a death record for Eliza's sister Jennie (Jane?). It lists the mother as Mary SMITH and has an image of her death record. Lists her birth place as Amaranth, Ont. Although it's miss spelled.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=ha...;

Re: Smith and Colgan family's of Amaranth township

kimmills135 — 2013-01-17 21:22:40Z

Ah ha! I mixed up two John WILLIAMS family's. I should read records when I'm under the weather, but I'm not up to much else. lol

In the 1871 census there is a family that fits AND they have a child of William HALL and Mary SMITH living with them.
Still find it a bit odd that in the 1861 census Mary is living beside the GERMAN John WILLIAMS and wife Mary and in 1871 two of her kids is with the ENGLISH John WILLIAMS.

1871 census for Artemesia, Grey Co.
John Williams, male, age 31, born in England, married
Eliza Williams, female, age 28, born in Ireland, married
Anna Williams, female, age 4, born in Ontario
Harriet Williams, female, age 11/12
William Hall, male, age 19, born in Ontario, Irish, single
Maria Hall, female, age 16, born in Ontario, Irish, single

By the age of Eliza in the census she is more likely a daughter of one of the Smith children, then a sibling.

Re: Smith and Colgan family's of Amaranth township

kimmills135 — 2013-01-17 19:52:50Z

Ok, I was doing a little more work on the WILLIAMS line. It turns out the wife Mary Elizabeth surname is ISNOR not SMITH. I've found this surname on a few of the children's marriage and death records. Hmm...

I'm still pretty sure that it is the right HALL family living next door to them though. So if this is the same WILLIAMS family mentioned in the estate, who is Elizabeth?
John WILLIAMS and Mary Elizabeth ISNOR had a daughter named Eliza Ann but she married a Robert CAMPBELL.

So unless Mary Elizabeth was married twice, her surname being SMITH and first married name ISNOR they she wouldn't be the Elizabeth Williams we are looking for. I've seen first married names turn up in vital records as the mothers surname before.

So I'm wondering why the HALL family moved from Amaranth twp. to Artemesia twp. to live beside them. If Elizabeth isn't a SMITH, perhaps she is related to Thomas SMITH's wife Mary surname unknown. Or she could be related to the HALL side some how. With John WILLIAMS being from Germany, I don't think he would be a blood relative.

I'll keep looking for the right Elizabeth Williams.

Re: Smith and Colgan family's of Amaranth township

kimmills135 — 2013-01-17 00:15:48Z

Thank you so much!! I started doing some digging on the names you found last night. Today I'm starting to fight the flu, so I hope I don't sound to mixed up. LOL!

Ok I looked for Maria BOWLER and I found her living in Grey Co., married to Joshua BOWLER. Maria died 2 Jun 1930 and on her death record it listed her father as Thomas HALL and mothers maiden name as SMITH, no first name listed. Maria was born abt 1854, I'm thinking her mother is a daughter of Thomas SMITH.

Then I went looking for Elizabeth WILLIAMS. It looks like she married John WILLIAMS who was born abt 1824 in Germany. They lived in Artemesia, Grey Co. She went by both Mary and Elizabeth. She was born abt 1821 Ireland, she died 2 Nov 1879, no parents names on the record.

In the 1851 Ag. census it shows a John SMITH next door to John WILLIAMS.

In the 1861 census next to John and Mary is a HALL family.
In Artemesia twp.
Mary HALL born 1816 Ireland, widowed.
John HALL born 1839 Ireland, single
Eliza HALL born 1842 Ireland, single.
Mary HALL born 1844 Upper Canada.
Matilda HALL born 1847 Upper Canada.
Jane HALL born 1850 Upper Canada.
William HALL born 1853 Upper Canada.
Maria HALL born 1854 Upper Canada.

I can't find any trace of the family of widowed Mary HALL before or after this census. Given the ages of the younger children they should be in Canada in the 1850 census. No luck in later census yet either.

I'm actually thinking that this HALL family is the same one living next to Thomas SMITH family in Amaranth twp in 1851, because I couldn't find them after that either and the age for Matilda in this census would be right. Both census show that John and Elizabeth were born in Ireland.

So if what I'm thinking is right Mary who married William HALL would be daughter of Thomas SMITH. They lived next to him in the 1851 census.
Then before or after her husband William HALL dies, they move to live next door to her sister Elizabeth WILLIAMS (Smith?).

Then Maria BOWLER is a daughter of an Unknown Smith, who would also be a daughter of Thomas SMITH who married a Thomas HALL.

This would fit with the how they would be heirs to William SMITH. Yes it does look like James SMITH married his niece Matilda HALL.
Also if Eliza COLGAN (SMITH) had sisters up in Grey Co., that would help understand why they moved up there.

John WILLIAMS eventually moved to Eugenia where some of his children moved to. I found a mention of his death in the Flesherton paper. It didn't mention the name of his wife though. He died 25 Jun 1902 in Eugenia, Grey Co.

I did find a marriage record for his son John Jr. he married Eliza Ann LINTON 7 Jan 1885 in Grey Co. The marriage didn't list his mothers maiden name.

Re: Smith and Colgan family's of Amaranth township

ropetc502 — 2013-01-16 00:06:52Z

I did some work on the children's death dates and I couldn't find any obituaries in any of the Dufferin County newspapers. The museum has the Orangeville Sun and Shelburne Economist indexed, and I went through the Shelburne Free Press for the dates and no articles.

In one of the articles you referenced in your previous response, it indicated John Smith's death occurred at lot 27 con 4 Amaranth. So I went through the property records for this lot today at the museum. It was an interesting exercise and it will give you lots to work on. I didn't write down all the property transactions that involved John SMITH, there was only one transaction that will give you some leads to work on.

In 1882 Eliza COLGAN (Plaintiff) of Osprey Township, wife of George COLGAN got a court judgement for partitioning or sale of lot 27 con 4 of Amaranth. The defendants were: James SMITH, Elizabeth WILLIAMS, Maria BOWLER, Matilda SMITH, Jane HALL, John HALL, William HALL, Thomas Smith, John SMITH, Mary SMITH, Jane SMITH, Annie SMITH (it was noted the last 5 were < 21 years of age).

The defendants named are the heirs of John SMITH (brothers, sisters, nieces or nephews) and Eliza (SMITH) COLGAN proved her case to be included in this list. I believe this does give you the proof that Eliza (SMITH) COLGAN is a sister of John, James and William, so that would make her a daughter of Thomas SMITH.

With William SMITH dying in 1880, it makes sense that the last five people mentioned in the list are his children. Excluding James SMITH who is the first person mentioned in the list, I believe the remaining people are part of a HALL family. For HALL family members to be included in this list, it only makes sense if Thomas SMITH had a daughter who married a HALL and this daughter had died before 1882. These HALL children would then be a niece or nephew of John SMITH.

Now the big question: Is the William and Mary HALL living next door to the SMITH family (1851 census) actually William HALL and Mary SMITH (another daughter of Thomas)? They are parents' of a Matilda HALL from the census and the parents' of Matilda HALL who married James SMITH, were William & Mary. Does that mean James SMITH married his niece Matilda HALL? This would explain why a Matilda SMITH is in the defendants' list as an heir of John SMITH. She would not be there as the spouse of James SMITH, but as a niece of John SMITH. Interesting?

Re: Smith and Colgan family's of Amaranth township

kimmills135 — 2013-01-10 22:28:13Z

I've been working on James family and this is what I've found so far.

James Howard Smith born abt 1823 County Tyrone, Ireland died 13 May 1888 Amaranth twp., Dufferin Co., Ontario. Married Matilda Hall 19 Oct 1864 Wellington Co., Ont. Not able to find a death record or a second marriage record for Matilda yet. I did track down most of their children all of whom died with out marrying or having children.
I was not able to find Robert Lewis after the 1891 census.
Maria Eleanor "Helen" Smith was the informant on her sister Matilda Dora's death record. Other then that I have not been able to find her after 1891 either. Non of the children below I have yet found after the 1891 census, so I'm not sure when they moved to Northern Ontario. I will keep looking.

Elizabeth Smith born abt. 1865 Amaranth twp., died 20 Oct 1919 South Himsworth, Parry Sound, Ont.
John Smith born abt 1867 Amaranth twp., died 26 Jul 1926 Gravenhurst, Muskoka, Ont.
Mary Smith born abt. 1870 Amaranth twp., died 5 Oct 1918 South Himsworth, Parry Sound, Ont.
James Albert Smith born 12 Jul 1873 Amaranth twp., died 30 Mar 1920 North Bay, Nipissing, Ont.
Thomas Alcorne Smith born abt 1876 Amaranth twp., died 2 Apr 1912 South Himsworth, Parry Sound, Ont.
Maria Eleanor "Helen" Smith born 20 Jun 1878 Amaranth twp., died ?
Matilda Dora Smith born abt 1881 Amaranth twp., died 16 May 1926 Stephenson Twp., Muskoka, Ont.
Robert Lewis Smith born 2 Oct 1883 Amaranth twp., died ?

Re: Smith and Colgan family's of Amaranth township

kimmills135 — 2013-01-06 18:27:23Z

Thank you so much for your help! :-)

I did some searching on the John Smith who was murdered. I found two articles in the Markdale Standard, that is thankfully online.

An Old Man Shot Dead at His Own Fireside
Markdale Standard (Markdale, Ont.), 27 Jan 1882, p. 2
http://news.ourontario.ca/ghpl/1116536/data?n=3

The Shelburne Tragedy: How did old John Smith come to his death? His nephew tried for the crime - strong circumstantial evidence.
Markdale Standard (Markdale, Ont.), 2 Nov 1882, p. 4http://news.ourontario.ca/ghpl/1117024/data?n=2

They are very interesting to read. I had hopped one might mention John's parents to find out his mothers surname. No luck on that so far!

Re: Smith and Colgan family's of Amaranth township

ropetc502 — 2013-01-06 15:34:21Z

My SMITHs (Scotland, Caledon twp, East Garafraxa twp, Amaranth twp) were also from Amaranth but they are a different family then you are working on. I was able to do some work on your family yesterday and I am happy to say I was able to answer some of your questions.

I found two Thomas SMITH deaths in the Orangeville Sun index in the range 1861-1871 but neither of these were yours. I did find one more Thomas SMITH from another source who I believe is the one you are looking for:

Thomas SMITH, 82, Amaranth, Interment date: Mar. 14, 1868, Burials - St Mark's 1850-1872, Page: 4 , Book: D

I have no other burial information for this Thomas. I do believe his wife is Mary. I found two marriage records:

County Marriage Registers of Ontario, Canada 1858-1869 Volume 12 Simcoe County:
Groom: Wm. SMITH, 30, Amaranth, Co. Tyrone, Ireland, Thomas & Mary SMITH
Bride: Annie CAMPBELL, , Orangeville, Tyrone, Ireland, James & Jane CAMPBELL
Witness: James CAMPBELL, Orangeville & Jane CAMPBELL
August 16, 1860

County Marriage Registers of Ontario, Canada 1858-1869 Volume 10 Wellington County:
Groom: James SMITH, 35, Amaranth, Ireland, Thomas & Mary SMITH
Bride: Matilda HALL, , Amaranth, Mono, William & Mary HALL
Witness: Samuel A. CARSON, Orangeville & Sarah COLAGIN, Amaranth
October 19, 1864

I cannot account for the William SMITH in the 1881 census, he might be an uncle or a cousin, because the William SMITH who married Ann CAMPBELL died in 1880.

Greenwood Cemetery, Orangeville
SMITH - Annie SMITH 1869-1940. Mary SMITH wife of George SAXTON 1866-1931
William SMITH 1823-1880. His wife Annie CAMPBELL 1832-1907. Natives of County Tyrone, Ireland.
Thomas SMITH 1862-1887. Jean SMITH 1868-1931.

Now the surprise newspaper article that explains what happened to brothers John and James SMITH.

Shelburne Free Press, May 24, 1888, DEAD: James Smith, of Lot 12, Con 1, Amaranth, died on Sunday, May 13th, after a long illness. He was a brother of John Smith, the victim of what is known as the Shelburne "murder case," which occurred in January, 1882. A son of the deceased was tried for the murder, but was acquitted. It is the general opinion that James Smith knew all about the murder, and was credited with planning it. If such was the case, he died without telling his secret.

Using Ancestry there is a death record for John SMITH who died: January 21, 1882 in Dufferin - cause of death - Murder (shot in the head).

Smith and Colgan family's of Amaranth township

kimmills135 — 2012-12-22 04:37:24Z

I was wondering if anyone was working on the Smith family from Amaranth township?

My 2nd Gr. Grandparents were George Colgan b. abt 1808 in Ireland (some records show 1818), he died 29 Jul 1895 in Grey Co.
His wife was Eliza Smith born abt 1822 in Ireland and died 30 Jul 1888 in Grey Co.
They farmed most of their lives in Amaranth township, in Wellington Co., later changed to Dufferin Co.

Living next door to them, is a Smith family who I believe is Eliza's father and siblings.
Thomas Smith born abt 1780 in Ireland he is in the 1851 and 1861 census. I think he died before the 1871. I don't know who his wife was.
There were 3 men living with him John born abt 1821. I've lost track of him after the 1861 census.
James born abt 1823 in Ireland, died 13 May 1888 in Amaranth twp. Married Matilda Hall who was born abt 1847. They had 8 children, Elizabeth b. abt 1865, John b. abt 1867, Mary b. abt 1870, James Albert b. abt 1874, Thomas Alcorne b. abt 1876, Mariah Elanor b. 20 Jun 1878, Matilda b. abt 1881, Robert Lewis b. 2 Oct 1883, all in Amaranth twp.

Then there was William Smith born abt 1825 in Ireland. Although the 1881 census shows 1806, not likely right. His wife was Annie ?. I have 5 children for them Thomas b. abt 1862, Mary b. abt 1863, Jane b. abt 1867, Anne b. abt 1869, John b. abt 1871.

George & Eliza's daughter Sarah Colgan (1845-1910) was the second wife of John Colgan who lived in Proton township. They married about 1868. I think that John and George might be cousins. John's fist wife was Ester Little who was born in County Donegal, Ireland.

Would love to share info with anyone working on these lines!

Re: Objet : Re: Objet : Re: Thomas, Andrew, Robert WHITTEN

janfors — 2012-10-31 21:20:39Z

Wow! Thanks for the help !!

Objet : Re: Objet : Re: Thomas, Andrew, Robert WHITTEN

hewitt48 — 2012-10-31 17:55:34Z

Here is a link to a site where you can post a picture and desription of your ancestor's grave.

I checked and Robert Whitten is not on the list. The more stuff you post online the higher the chances some of your relatives in the Robert Whitten line may find you and vice versa.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gsr&GSsr=4...;

Objet : Re: Objet : Re: Thomas, Andrew, Robert WHITTEN

hewitt48 — 2012-10-31 17:39:12Z

Their grave sites are easy to find. My great grandparents Thomas and Sarah Ann as well as my grandfather Russel, and my father Henry, are located very near to Robert Whitten's tomb which is a tall white marble monument featuring a column topped by an urn, and a darker coloured base. It is located right beside my family's graves, looking north away from the fence. You should see a gate behind you.

I don't know where my great great grandparents are buried.

To find these graves the best thing to do is enter the cemetery, and begin my walking west beside the fence that runs alongside Broadway.

I just took a look at the area using Google Maps and I can see their graves by using the zoom future.

Robert's brother's (Thomas) grave is further east and it is similar to Robert's monument except there is no column on top. It is a squat white marble monument with a darker coloured base.

I hope these instructions are helpful. If not, don't hesitate to contact me.

Re: Objet : Re: Thomas, Andrew, Robert WHITTEN

janfors — 2012-10-31 14:58:42Z

Hey...just fyi...I have an event in Orangeville this weekend so am going to drop by the cemetary. Robert and his brother Thomas are buried there ( other brother Andrew is in Flesherton), as is Sarah Anne...I will say hi from you :) Just talked to them and they gave me all the Sections, plot #'s , etc.

Re: Objet : Re: Thomas, Andrew, Robert WHITTEN

janfors — 2012-10-29 20:55:57Z

Thanks!!

Re: Objet : Re: Thomas, Andrew, Robert WHITTEN

hewitt48 — 2012-10-29 17:59:33Z

Here is my direct line starting with my first ancestors to arrive in Canada, I believe in 1824.

Robert HEWITT & Mary LACKEY

Thomas HEWITT & Sarah Anne WHITTEN

James Russell Whitten HEWITT & Gladys Isabel WILSON

Henry Russell HEWITT & Yvonne McALPINE

Re: Objet : Re: Thomas, Andrew, Robert WHITTEN

janfors — 2012-10-29 15:36:45Z

Thanks!
I have wondered what happened to the child Andrew that shows up in that census. I think he must have died early on .
I have made the Hewitt/Whitten coonnection. If you have the direct line down to you from Thomas and Sarah Anne, maybe you could send it along and I will add it to my tree:) ( I must admit I would need alot more pages to do the whole Robert side! ( laughing), though if you have even the siblings names of Sarah Anne, that would be great as I know there were 9 and I am missing one girl.

Re: Objet : Re: Thomas, Andrew, Robert WHITTEN

hewitt48 — 2012-10-29 13:22:05Z

You probably have the same information linked below with regards to your great great grandfather Andrew. It is the 1852 census for Artemesia township, but what you were not aware of was his neighbour, whose family begins on line 7 with Mary Hewitt, my great great grandmother. Thomas further down on the list is my great grandfather who married Sarah Ann Whitten.

http://automatedgenealogy.com/census52/View.jsp?id=5384&...

Re: Objet : Re: Thomas, Andrew, Robert WHITTEN

janfors — 2012-10-28 19:30:36Z

Thanks !
It looks like Robert came before Andrew then because according to one census, Andrew's son John was born in Ireland in 1847 and they came out shortly after. His other two sons are shown as having been born in Artemesia.He must have followed his brother Robert. I think my Mom may even have Andrew's wedding certificate from Ireland somewhere.

As for Ireland, I know they came from Portadown....more details to follow.

Objet : Re: Thomas, Andrew, Robert WHITTEN

hewitt48 — 2012-10-28 16:48:31Z

This may help you in determining the date of arrival in Canada of the 3 Whitten brothers. This is the marriage notice for Robert Whitten who got married in what was then York (Toronto). It was at St. James Cathedral, because I have some other data (not in hand) that shows this.

15 March, 1844, by license, Robert WHITTEN, of the township of York, bachelor, and Elizabeth FERGUSON, of the same place, spinster.

Anxiously awaiting information on place of origin of Whitten family in Armagh.

Thanks!