Knott County Historical & Genealogical Soc & Lib - Family History & Genealogy Message Board

Re: Indentured Owens children - VA

cao557 — 2013-04-28 04:50:20Z

I will try to add what I can. But without more documentation or DNA results, there are still areas of great uncertainty.

The Owens & Whitely children were indentured in March of 1810. William Owens filed asking for the return of his 2 children in June of 1812. A summons was issued for "show cause" whether they should be returned "to their father." In July of 1812, Kizer and Smith failed to "show cause" and the indentures were cancelled.

It is very unfortunate the 2 children are not named! I searched the entire reel, several years of microfilm & found no further details about the Owens children. Scans of 3 relevant microfilms are posted here: http://bit.ly/164KPKw Given that Reece was born about 1800 and Rhody (Rhoda) about 1804, they would have been the youngest.

Mona Owens Harrod had come to believe the Owens oral history was missing a generation between John Owens and Reece & that William Owens was the missing link. Keep in mind her hypothesis was developed while assuming Reece and the other 3 children were siblings. Since then, DNA results indicated the 3 Owens males did not share the same paternal DNA. We don't know if they shared maternal DNA. Although we think Rhoda was Reece's sister.

William and Franky married July 13, 1818 in Russell Co VA. They had 5 children born between 1819 & 1826; Jane, Frances /Frankey, William Jr. ...Moved to Clay County KY which is now Perry & Knott counties, where James and Harvey were born.

Mona put forth several potential matches for William Owens but narrowed her most likely choice to: William b. 1763 who married Nancy Anne Owens (b. 1768?).

From 1797-1803 Russell Co. deeds were signed by William and Anne or Aney and one used Nancy in the document but was signed Anne Owens. The 1816 deed for sale of the same (home) property was only in William's name.

7-17-1818, four days after William Owens married Frankey Whitely, they sold property - probably left to Frankey by her father or husband. Mona referenced Virginia Ancestors And Descendants, Lea/Lee Families (Lebanon, Russell County, VA Historical Society and Public Library) which stated Frankey Lea had first married a Whitely, then married William Owens, and moved to Clay Co. KY. Owens begin appearing in Perry County KY in 1823 tax records: William, Harden, Nicholas and Reese in 1824.

William JR. married Frances Caudill. Mona found land records showing William Jr. & Frances had engaged attorneys in Madison Co. Arkansas to handle the sale of their Perry Co KY land. One of the Owens DNA matches for my husband, a descendant of Reece, is in ARK. Coincidence?

Re: Indentured Owens children - VA

suewhiteley178 — 2013-03-23 15:20:26Z

So Hardin probably wasn't one that went back with William Owens, because he would have been 22 or 23 by the time William go remarried.... Or did he ask for those kids back before he 1818?

Re: Indentured Owens children - VA

ScottOwens96 — 2013-03-23 12:23:25Z

Harden Owens died 4/17/1887 books say he was 90 when he died. That would make his birth 1795/6-1796/7. Buchanan County formerly Russell butts KY. Where Harden is buried is 10-15 minutes by car from KY line. Harden traveled regularly back and forth but without car which could be quicker over hills.

Re: Indentured Owens children - VA

suewhiteley178 — 2013-03-23 10:17:12Z

Does anyone know the aprox. birth year for Reese, Rhody & Harden (and Nicholas if anyone knows)????? Thanks.
>Perhaps William Owens was merely related to/brother of or somehow connected to: John Owens & Mary Fugate (if they were Reece & Rhodys' parents), and w/ mystery Owens & mystery other, who were the parents of Hardin, and William Owens and his first wife took in those Owens kids until hard times came. Perhaps Williams first wife died, and he felt it might be better to give them up, and at the same time Frankeys husband died and she had to give up her kids. Later, by the time William & Frankey married one another, maybe the Whiteley kids were settled well in their 'apprentice' situation, learning to read & write and learning a trade, so Frankey left them.
William got 2 of the Owen children back. Maybe he had been officially appointed as guardian at some point earlier for those kids, or in some way felt responsible for them. Perhaps that’s why Hardin said his father was 'William', because he knew him as his only father.
Indentured children at that time were in many cases not much more than slaves, but I'm guessing some could also have been lucky and been placed with a good family. The law at the time was that indentured children had to be fed, and taught to read and write, as well as learning whatever 'apprentice' trade they were doing, and a girl child had to stay till she was 18 years of age, and a boy child until he was 21 years of age. (Unless the court ordered them back, as was the case with 2 of the Owen children)
Maybe William & Frankey saw that those 2 Owen kids were in bad situations, so he ask for them to be returned, but they could not take all the kids back, and maybe didn't need to if the others were settled in good situations.
Frankeys 2 Whiteley kids most probably completed out their indenture, because of these records:
1816 - John Whiteley - re-indentured to a Lee Jesse, because John Jesse (whom he was indentured to) died, and 1818 - Mary(Polly) Whiteley also re-endentured.
The first name 'Lee Jesse' has been passed down in John Whiteleys family, so I wonder if John had a good relationship with the last man he was intendured to 'Lee Jessee'.
Also, at that time, if a childs father was dead, but mother was living, they were considered an 'orphan', and by the 1810 indenture document, all of those children were called 'orphans' by the court, implying no only that Frankys first husband was indeed dead, but so were the fathers of the 'Owen' children. I suppose the fact that in a later document the 2 Owen kids were referred to by the court as 'the children of William Owen', does not necessarily mean he was their father, but perhaps he had some legal right to them. (like he had been their guardian or something because he was their uncle or something).
At any rate, we may never know the truth, but it is interesting to try and solve these mysteries. The above is of course, all speculation and theories… I guess it helps to try to sort out possible senarios…
That Reese first married a Lea makes sense if Reese was one of the 4 raised by William & Frankey, who would surely have been connected to her family.
Sooo… No one knows the answers to any of my questions??? kowens, you said the Owen men went over from Russell Co. VA to south east Kentucky. Does that mean William & Franky Owen were in Kentucky? You mentioned Knott Co. for Reese. I'm trying to nail down where William & Frankey lived. Both Whiteley kids ended up after their 'indentureship' over in Perry Co. KY. (sorry to keep asking, I have limited ability to search, and I think you folks have been at this a while)
If you read through this long post, thank you!!! With Appreciation, Sue

Re: Indentured Owens children - VA

kowens155 — 2013-03-21 21:00:57Z

Sue, you've asked the questions we're all burning to answer! ...LOL...

Reece is my ancestor, and I've offered to pay for the Y-chromosome tests for my direct-line male cousins. (I have very few, as we seem to run to girls; no one has offered to do it yet, though.)

Our family line's oral tradition has held that Reece's parents were John Owens and Martha "Patsy" Fugate. (There was actually a John Owens around the area at the time, according to records.) We are also told that Reece's first wife (from Virginia) was a Virginia(Ginny/Jenny) Lea or Lee.

Some years ago, the court documents in Virginia came to light. Chris Owens has done quite a bit of research on the matter. If I remember correctly, her husband is the grandson of Reece's grandson, John Owens (son of V. Owens); and sent in a DNA sample. I think it's the only one for Reece's line, so far. (Scott probably knows a great deal more about that.)

Mona L. Owens Harrod originally strongly disliked the thought that William might be Reece's dad, but even she came 'round to thinking that there is some sort of connection to William after looking at the Va documents. (At least, that's what I've been told, as Cousin Mona passed away some years back. I did meet with Chris Owens, however, and she's the one who convinced Mona that there is some sort of connection; I think Mona also went to Virginia to look.)

I personally find it extremely interesting that the surname Lea/Lee shows up with both Francis "Frankey" Lea Whiteley, and with Reece's first wife Virginia "Ginny" Lea/Lee.

There is a strong visual resemblance between Harden Owens and Reece's son, Vinson/Vincent Owens in photos I've seen. I don't know that there has been any DNA connection made, however, as the Hap Group for my Owens cousin was a relatively rare one, if I am remembering correctly.

After they left Virginia ca 1810, the Owen/Owens men show up in Southeast Kentucky ca 1820. Reece had 2-3 children by then and had been widowed, too. Rhoda married a Mr Smith in Kentucky, and named one of her daughters "Frankey". Some of the Owen/Owens' stayed in Kentucky, some went further west, and some went back to Virginia, which is what I think Harden did.

Reece Owens is known today as one of the "Founding Fathers" of Knott County, Kentucky. Rhoda Owens Smith should also be considered one of the "Founding Mothers" of Southeast Kentucky.

One thought about why the Whiteley children may not have gone back to Frankey, is that their dad may have had them, instead, if he and their mother had divorced, and he was still alive. I think there is some sort of will for Frankey's dad, too...

Re: Indentured Owens children - VA

ScottOwens96 — 2013-03-21 16:47:50Z

Sue, I have the same curiosity about these kids also. I found where Whitely and Owens were living close together in their ventures west during the mid 1700's in other Counties. I don't know any of the answers to questions. My theories have upset some people researching these individuals. I am after the facts good or bad that it uncovers, sometimes I jump ahead with my conclusion. If you email me I will discuss these with you, but may need to be cautious about posting on public board. Are you connected with the Texas group of Whitely's? Email address is above in comment.

Re: Indentured Owens children - VA

suewhiteley178 — 2013-03-20 04:12:25Z

I am not an Owen descendant, but I have an interest in this 'indentured children' thing because of Frankey (Lea/Whiteley)Owen, and her children. I have a few questions, if anyone can help me. What I know is that Frankey's 1st husband died or disappeared around 1808. She had John (b.1802) & Polly(b.1804) and possibly a Sarah/Sally(b.1808ish), and in 1810, in the same indentured children document, John & Polly Whiteley and Harden, Nicholas, Reece & Rhody Owens were indentured out. By 1818 Frankey married William Owen and sometime later 2 of 'his' Owen children were given back to him by the court. My understanding is that after 1818 Frankey (Lea/Whiteley) Owens & William Owens had several children together: Jane(b.1819), Frances(b.1821),William(b.1822), James(b.1824), and Harvey(b.1826). Here are my questions:
1.) About William Owen who married Frankey: Does anyone know his date of birth, his parents, and if he was married before, and to whom? I realize there is some mystery as to who those kids were.
2.) About the 2 indenture documents that concern returning 2 of the Owen children to him: What was the date on those two documents, and which were the 2 returned to him?
3.) Has any descendant from William and Frankey (the above Jane,Frances,William,James,&Harvey) done DNA testing? If so, is there any correlation at all to any of the indentured Owen children?
4.) Has anyone seen census records reflecting William Owen & Frankey between 1810-1840?? Where did they live? I wonder how many children and of what ages would be reflected in their household in the census. I am trying to figure out if there was really a 3rd Whiteley child of Frances, since she (Sally/Sarah) was not in the 'indentured children document'. Did she stay with Frankey & William Owens?
5.) Does anyone know when & where William & Frankey Owens died???
I am also wondering why only 2 of the Owen children were ordered back to him. He must have believed they were his?? It is also curious that the Whiteley children were never ordered back to Frankey, since they were all indentured out (Owen & Whiteley kids) at the same time, and Frankey was then married to William Owens, when he got 2 children back. Especially since the Whiteley children were hers but the Owen children who were ordered back to him were not??? (Yet the 2 documents concerning returning the children to him state very clearly they were HIS children.)
Finally, I would love to hear anyones theories on who those Owen kids were… Scott, you said you have theories…?
Sorry to ask so much, any help at all will be appreciated.
Thanks, Sue

Re: Indentured Owens children - VA

ScottOwens96 — 2013-03-19 21:05:22Z

There is a link (maybe brothers or sons not necessarily direct) in these individual's to Harden Owens. We match too close. There are 13 of us matching YDNA-37; or 111, with only off 2. I don't know if Harden's father, grandfather or how far back but there is a cross over one way or other. Books say Willian was Harden's father. I don't know if he was an Owens, Henry, or Allen, it is yet to be established in my opinion.

Re: Indentured Owens children - VA

kowens155 — 2013-03-19 19:03:12Z

I am still confused by what you are posting,,,in terms of the point of the data, I guess...

Are you saying that there is a Y-chromosome, 'old-school' father-son direct line descent between some/any of the men listed in your most recent post? (ie, do you think Harden's dad was Zechariah Allen? Or, that Harden is the father of one or more of the younger Allen's)

I'm not trying to be difficult here..I really do understand the Owens lineage confusion ! We are trying to work out our own branch's parentage for Reese Owens...I'm trying to talk my male relatives into doing the Y-Chromosome test.) LOL

Re: Indentured Owens children - VA

ScottOwens96 — 2013-03-18 23:45:00Z

These are some matches YDNA
Horatio Bailey, born 1786 in Delaware
George W. Clifton Henry 1835 TENN
Joseph Ball, B1865
Zechariah Allen, b.1759, Maryland, d. 1838, IL
Elkanah Allen,b.c. 1805, NC
James Allen, b. c. 1788, NC
Harden Owens (1796-1887 VA)

Re: Indentured Owens children - VA

ScottOwens96 — 2013-03-18 23:30:10Z

Harden's descendent's have been tested through sons James, and William we match. My nearest match is to a Henry (1835) in cocke co tenn. we match all but 2 out of YDNA-111. We match no other Owens but Harden (1796-1887, burried on my brothers property in Buchanan Co VA) We match several Allen's that go back farther in time from different locations. We match a Bailey that goes back farther in time. I have some theory's as to how the Mix came about but so does everyone else. If there comes another Owens that matches us I will have to go back to drawing board.

Re: Indentured Owens children - VA

kowens155 — 2013-03-18 22:59:00Z

Both families show up in the area, and on into KY and TN...I am a bit confused by what you mean by 'turn into Allen"...Do you mean that one of Harden's daughters married an Allen?

I once saw a picture of Harden online somewhere, and the resemblance to Reese's son Vinson Owens (my gr-gr-grandpa)was amazing...down to the hairline!

Re: Indentured Owens children - VA

kowens155 — 2013-03-18 22:58:30Z

Re: Indentured Owens children - VA

ScottOwens96 — 2013-03-14 17:08:18Z

Hi, all I am Scott Owens kit # 56587 Harden Owens descendent. I have done all the tests YDNA-111; MtDNA full; FFdna, and it appears after we go to Harden Owens we turn into Allen. Does anyone know of any Allen & Owens connection around late 1700's around Southwest Virginia, Kentucky way?

Scottspools@msn.com

Re: Ashley's of eastern kentucky

jashley60 — 2013-02-16 17:38:45Z

I am sorry but i dont remember your name as JB francis.
I am Lindens brother (John Raymond)was called johnny Raymond in high school. Have you been to any of the high school reunions?? Yes I would be glad to send you any
info and I would like to have the info you mentioned.
Sorry for the late reply:; I have been in Alabama for
two months and just returned home!!

Re: Ashley's of eastern kentucky

jashley60 — 2013-02-16 17:37:05Z

J.B.
Since Barbara Ashley lived out her final years in Hazel Green, I wonder if she was buried in Hazel Green???
I am going to try to find the names of the cemeteries there to look for a posssible grave site.

jones and bailey

melissaivy681 — 2012-10-19 00:06:42Z

looking for any info on lydia jones married lee bailey in manchester kentucky lydia parents were george jones

Re: Nathaniel Cornett

chuckc117 — 2012-09-09 03:52:02Z

Nathaniel Cornett was my great, great grandfather. My line came from Robin and Neal Cornett. Below is a link to more information.

http://www.knottkentuckykinfolk.com/family_trees/cornett_nat...

Re: Indentured Owens children - VA

pamela_49 — 2012-07-13 05:02:10Z

you can email me at pamela_taylor_08@yahoo.com

Re: Indentured Owens children - VA

pamela_49 — 2012-07-13 04:56:19Z

my GGG grandmother is Hannah owen her father was reese owens her mother was Jennie lee owens..But after Jennie was married to my GGGG grand father owens she was alson Married to my GGG grand father Billy Grigsby..Hannah married Biram Combs i have being searching alot its hard to keep it all in line,,Now tring to find out who jennies parents and reeses parents are?

Nathaniel Cornett

Gathering_Leaves — 2012-06-26 20:32:21Z

Hi,
I was wondering if someone knew if there are any known photos of Nathaniel Cornett. My grandmother was a descendant so I know the family history. My grandfather was a photographer way back and also saved photos along the way. I don't know where he might have found (or who gave it to him) but I discovered an old photo plus an enlarged version in his collection. This is what it says on the back of the copied photo:
Nathaniel Cornett
One of the first settlers on Troublesome Creek. He was the father of Sarah and Watson Cornett.
Can anyone tell me anything about this man? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Am I correct in guessing that this man is Nathaniel Woolery Cornett?
Thank you.

Re: Wolf Pen School

mwilma24 — 2012-06-20 02:02:42Z

Verna Holliday phone 800 785 3329 has one.

James valentine and Lavina Johnson

motherdearest481 — 2012-02-09 16:34:47Z

James and lavina were married in Knox county kentucky around 1850.I am trying to find lavina's family.I was wondering if the family had some indian.

Re: Knott County Soldiers killed in WWII

stacylaptop — 2011-11-09 22:05:32Z

Hello again Robert,
Most of your info about GC Stacy you have is correct, except he and Gladys had 8 children. The four you mentioned, Phillip, my father Alger and two others who are still living, whose names I won't mention here.
As with any genealogist, of course I'm interested in what who have regarding the David Stacy line. I Look forward to hearing from you soon.

Mike

Re: Knott County Soldiers killed in WWII

RobertStacy73 — 2011-11-03 19:34:19Z

Hello Mike. I think I had lost track of you and your family. I am Robert Stacy, grandson of Elizaabeth Howard Stacy. Elizabeth married David Stacy after her departure form Jamed Wilson Stacy. She and David Stacy had nine children and one of them is my father Delmus Stacy. Let me know if you would like any information about the Elizabeth Howard/David Stacy line.

Elizabeth Howard had two children with James Wilson Stacy. They were Grover Cleveland Stacy and Canzalia Stacy. Canzalia marrried Carmin Pigman and they are both buried at the Little Dove Cemetery near Sasafrass,KY. Grover Cleveland Stacy married Gladys Pigman and they had four children (in my record)Alfred Stacy, Joseph Stacy, Gertrude Stacy, and Junior Stacy. I believe Grover Cleveland Stacy is buried in Sandford, Ky.

Re: Knott County Soldiers killed in WWII

stacylaptop — 2011-11-02 20:45:36Z

Mr. Wilson,
Sorry about the phenomanally long delay, but I'm Grover Stacy's Grandson, and I just stumbled across the thread about Alfred Stacy. If you are still looking for info about this Stacy line let me know. For my part, I only found out about James Wilson Stacy's lineage a few years back after looking for him for 20+ years! You wouldn't happen to have any e-mailable photos of any of that line would you? Anyway, sorry again for not finding this discussion earlier. Hope your well, and look forward to talking to you. Mike Stacy

Resses Owens

pamela_49 — 2011-10-30 04:42:29Z

Resses and Mary Ann Hicks Had a Daughter Hannah who married my GG Grand father Biram Combs ..And Jennie Never Died She Married my GGG Grand father William Grigsby

Resses Owens

pamela_49 — 2011-10-30 04:42:27Z

Resses and Mary Ann Hicks Had a Daughter Hannah who married my GG Grand father Biram Combs ..And Jennie Never Died She Married my GGG Grand father William Grigsby

Re: Indentured Owens children - VA

mcgeorgel — 2011-10-15 02:01:29Z

I found your post very interesting. My surname is McGeorge from the same area in Virginia (montgomery co). After doing DNA testing, I have found that I am related to the Lee surname. So I have been looking for a Lee child being bound out around this time, John Mcgeorge born about 1804? In one post someone says Frankey's surname is Lee, In another someone says they're not sure what Lee Frankey's first husband was. This might be a long shot, but just trying. I have John McGeorge b1804-1807, his parents were James McGeorge and Ann LaForce, but they would have been close 45 to 50 at John's birth. This family came to Kentucky around 1817. Any info that you might have would be great.

Dr. Richard W. Duke and wife Effie (Allen) Duke

traildriver — 2011-08-28 20:03:09Z

I wonder if anyone might be able to provide information about the murder-suicide of Dr. Richard W. Duke and his wife, Effie in 1928. I believe this happened in Floyd Co.—have seen him listed at Martin, also Bosco. On June 15, 1928, he shot his wife Effie (Allen) Duke, then took his own life. R. W. Duke was a noted physician originally from Beaver Creek, Knott Co. I am researching topical ballads of Kentucky and have two different songs composed about “The Murder of Dr. Richard Duke and Wife”—but I have not been able to find any reference at all to this incident in the online newspapers I have access to. (Duke’s death certificate has been transcribed and is online at kykinfolk.com, also a photo of Effie’s headstone can be found at the Find A Grave website.) Is anyone aware of any local papers or books that might shed more light? From the ballads (which may not be entirely factual) Duke and his wife were separated. When she returned to the home one day, he shot her, then himself. One of the songs says that she had cut her hair, and he became angry. But also, indications are that he still loved her: “God knows I love you, Effie / but you have worried my life away.” Any insights or lore about what lay behind this incident would be welcome, as would any photos of either Richard or Effie Duke. Thanks! —Steve Green / sgreen@westernfolklife.org

Re: Indentured Owens children - VA

gib51ney — 2011-05-05 11:40:56Z

It is possible with all the Owen/Owens & Owens/Owens marriages, family "adoptions" and so on, somehow the link is on the maternal side.

There is that Vincent Owens in VA whose daughter Mona thought could have been the Nancy Ann who married William Owens before Frankey. That could (?) explain the Owens match to my husband that shows up in ARK (Owens/Marrs).

It's just too likely Harden, Reece and the other Owens bound out together were related - but maybe 'half' siblings or cousins.

Re: Indentured Owens children - VA

gib51ney — 2011-05-05 11:35:50Z

I will see if I have other specific info on Frankey.

Indenturing was servitude. The purpose with children was to be sure they did not become a drag on society (welfare). As draconian as the system was VA was a little more advanced - at some point required education, learn a trade, and set out other conditions.

The site with the microfilm list only gives the reel and document description, year, etc for ordering. You would need to know what year and/or what kind of documents you want to review (wills, marriages, etc) There are no live links to the documents themselves. To contact the library go to this page: http://www.lva.virginia.gov/public/order.asp Or take the info to your library and see if they can arrange to receive the microfilm for you to review.

ILL means they only lend to another library.

Re: Indentured Owens children - VA

kowens155 — 2011-05-05 05:22:05Z

Interesting that there is no match with Harden. I did see a photo of a Harden--can't remember if he was a son or grandson or the original--who looked amazingly like Vinson. Right down to the enhanced forehead...the hairline was the same in both pix.

Re: Indentured Owens children - VA

suewhiteley178 — 2011-05-05 04:41:04Z

THANK YOU sooo much for your help! I really appreciate it! It has been difficult to access information because of where I live (I have only a few hours of internet a day, and that is very slow dial up) There is some good new info in your post, and it is a good help!
I could not access those microfilms at the link you added, so I am grateful for the ones you have posted. I know there is one in LawOrder book 3, p.706 that I have heard about, and would like to see.
As far as the Whiteleys, Joseph Whiteley Sr. (father of my mystery Joseph Whiteley Jr.) had 14 children, and yes they were in and out of court with lots of issues, debt being one of the least. (Especially John who sounds like quite a tough guy!) Joseph Sr. had a lot of property, but sold it, got confederate money for it, and that money became useless. He had a large family and thus much trouble cropped up.
Joseph married Frances (Franky) Lea/Lee, daughter of William Lea/Lee around 1800. He dissapeared sometime between 1806-1808, and I don't know if he died, was killed by Indians, or ran off, but that is when Frances gave up her 'Whiteley' children. She is my gggg grandmother, so I am interested in her life.
The whole mystery that you are trying to solve about the Owens children also is interesting to me. I've read some about children at that were indentured, and it was not much different in many cases than slave labor. (which still happens today where I live!)
Again, thanks for your help. If you find anymore info of Frances Lee/Whiteley/Owens, I would like to hear.
With gratefulness,
Sue

Re: Indentured Owens children - VA

gib51ney — 2011-05-05 03:36:29Z

In case you haven't found it ... here is the link to obtain microfilms of the court records in VA from the State Library & they are available for "ILL" (Inter-library loan)
http://www.lva.virginia.gov/public/local/results_all.asp?Cou...

I do not know enough about the Whitely family to keep the generations with the same given names. But it looks to me like the same time period where the Whitely & Owens children were bound out - and continuing through the marriage of Wm. Owens & Frankey Lea Whitely - the Whitelys were involved in a lot of lawsuits & disputes.

I don't know if the root cause was an estate or series of estates or something else. But the problems continued. (See attached)

Mona's book says William Owens & Frances Lea Whitely married July 13, 1818; Wm W. Lea was Frances' father & the son of John Lea. b ca 1720. She lists her sources as Virginia Ancestors and Descendants - Lea/Lee Families, pg. 232, col. 2.

I do not know where she found the book. Maybe a good place to start is with the state archives or historical societies.

Chris

Re: Indentured Owens children - VA

gib51ney — 2011-05-05 02:40:51Z

Sue,

I'm going to attach some copies of the court records. It appears the Whitelys were in court a lot during the time period the children were bound out.

When I was doing this research I corresponded with Dorothy Griffin whose husband was a Whitely descendant. Below are notes from her research.

Also you may want to search/read Whitelys in America. It is available online;
http://www.archive.org/details/whiteleysinameri00whit

Received 7-11-2005 from Dorothy Griffin

Washington Co VA Report of Sec. for Board of Supervisors for the Poor:
1826---POLLY WHITLEY, 35 yr old, unable to walk
(DAG remark, too old to be the Polly bound out in 1805--unless the age is
in error.)

Russell Co VA 1810 Will Book 2:209, probated 5 Jun 1810:
William Lee (present wife Sara Lee)., lists dau FRANKY WHITELEY, &
others, including his bro JAMES LEE.

North Carolinian Journal, 9/1957 Mrs. Edythe Whitley of Nashville TN was
searching for LEA data.
Spring 1964 issue: in 1779 petition of inhabitants of Anson Co., includes
GEORGE LEA, JAMES LEE & GEORGE WHITLOU?

Early Washington Co VA Marriage: BETTY LEE to GEORGE WHITLEY (1792-3),
Nicholas Reagan, minister.

Law Order Book, Russell Co VA:
1805 John Whitley Apprenticed
3:706
1810 " "
4:127
1816 " " to
Jesse Lea 5:273 **
1808 Polly Whitley "
3:706
1810 " "
4:127
1818 Mary Whitley Reapprenticed
5:272

Law Order Book #3, Russell Co VA., May 1808. pg 706
Ordered that the Overseers of the poor bind out according to law, John
Whitley and Polly Whiteley infants of Joseph Whiteley Junr.

It does not say Joseph Whiteley Jr is deceased or the children are
orphans. The deed index indicates he was selling all his assets about
this time. Why?

3/1810 Law Order Book 4, pg 127
Overseers of poor bind out as apprentices John Whitley, Polly Whitley &
Owens children, all orphans
2/6/1816 Law Order Book 5, pg 273
Ordered that John Whitley a poor child formerly bound to John Jessee
decd., be by Overseers of Poor bound to Lea Jesse (Jesse Lea?) according
to law.

Will Book 2, Russell Co VA
James Wheatley (as given), wrote will Mar 8 1801, recorded Sept 6 1810,
gives to wife Elizabeth and 'least children', except $1 each to sons
Joseph, Curtis, Abel, Richard, Jesse, James; daus-Leah, Priscilla.

Will Book B, p166, Montgomery Co VA
Robt Whitley, Solomon Stratton, etc., Administrators of all the good
chattles & credits of WILLIAM WHITLY deceased do make inventory of
all...on Dec 1 1789.
It is possible this is the William Wheatley killed by Indians. The date
& place is realistic. Read on--
William Whitley of Baptist Valley, lived on line between Russell &
Montgomery Cos., killed & mutilated by Indians near Dick's Creek
(History of Tazewell Co., by Pendleton; History of Tazewell Co., by
Bickley; Indian Atrocities Along the Clinch, Powell & Holston Rivers,
unpub mss by Emory Hamilton)

Annals of Southwest Virginia, by Summers, pg 1505, Tazewell Co.
Murder of William Whitley--William lived in Baptist Valley, and had been
out on a bear hunt. He came home, and finding that a choice dog was
gone, started the following morning to look for him. The day passed off
and he did not return. His family became uneasy, and a company started
out to hunt for him. They had not gone far, however, when they met a man
named Scaggs, who had passed a murdered man at the mouth of Dick's Creek.
The company pushed on and identified the man to be Whitley. He was
dreadfully mutilated--his bowels torn out and stretched upon the bushes,
his heart in one place, and liver in another. A hole was opened, and the
ligaments(?) gathered up and interred. This happened in 1786.

Russell Co VA Deed
1806--Joseph Whitley & wife Frances sell 245a to Samuel Raney (This is
only time I found her name given.)

Chris

Re: Indentured Owens children - VA

gib51ney — 2011-05-05 00:15:18Z

Excellent news all around. In fact I had such a day that I phone Hubby & said, I'm on my way home & when I get there it's time to figure out when I can start using some vacation time : )

Fantastic about the cousin possiblities! Do they love mysteries? Maybe that's an incentive.

Here is the site: http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?code=N91992&...
This is the page inside the project with the test results so far:
http://www.hprg.com/owen/files/testresowen.htm

So far, my husband who is a descendant of Reece does not match any of the expected results. However, he does match an Owens (Owens/Marrs) from ARK where we know some of the Wm Owens/Frankey Owens descendants moved. And there is an Owen/Owens match which presents a real dilemma because we have no paternal history there.

No match for Harden's descendants. No match for the John (Indian Trader) descendants.

Chris

Re: Indentured Owens children - VA

kowens155 — 2011-05-04 14:38:16Z

...sorry...not "Polly"...middle-aged moment there...

Chris, I'm headed back to Kentucky for a research and cemetery visit trip at the end of the month. If you have any time, maybe we can get together again for breakfast or for coffee.

I think I have another male cousin or two who might participate in DNA project--I'm offering to pay--but, now I can't locate the Virginia-Owens website I originally saw.
Do you have that information?

--Kimberly

Re: Indentured Owens children - VA

kowens155 — 2011-05-04 14:20:25Z

Sue, thank you for the posting re the Whiteley family! And, Chris, I have a small booklet of family anecdotes, written by Uncle Scott. Some is about Reese Owens. Sue, it's interesting to note the names "John" and "Polly", as these are traditionally the names we had for Reese's parents via family oral history.

Re: Indentured Owens children - VA

gib51ney — 2011-05-04 11:42:20Z

I will go re-post the records from the 1808 period (children bound out). They are copies of the Russell VA court records. I obtained the microfilm through inter-library loan.

There is some question as to which Lea/Lee was Frankey's first husband. I remember getting an email about that from a Family researcher.

I will go back and see if I have a record of where the LEA/LEE family history is located. My husband is a direct descendant of Reese/Reece Owens - as was Mona Lisa Owens Harrod who wrote about that line =: Footprints of an Owens Pioneer ... and included other related lines. I was fortunate to obtain a copy from her before her passing.

Mona & Verna Mae Slone were related & collaborated on local & family histories (Knott Co KY & what Mona calls "Caney Creek Owens"). Mona was an Owens/Short family descendant. Verna Mae was an Owens/Slone descendant.

Mona went beyond oral history & researched the records in VA - corrected some oral history. When we caught up with one another, much of what she found matched what I found (like the court records on the children) and went beyond. I am so glad Mona listed her sources (and what is conjecture) and usually stated where she found the records.

Re: Indentured Owens children - VA

suewhiteley178 — 2011-05-04 04:35:16Z

Chris,
Thank you so much for answering my post. I tried to find the "Virginia Ancestors & Descendants, Lee Families", you mentioned and could not find it.
I am a descendant of John Whiteley, son of Frances (Frankey) Lee/Lea.(who later married William Owens) In the beginning of this string of posts there were 3 attachments concerning indentured children. In 1808, there was another such document apparently (I haven't been able to access any of these, so I was so grateful that you posted the last 3 here) The first one states John & Polly were orphaned children of Joseph Whiteley Jr. Because there are a couple family trees on the internet saying Frankeys first husband was William, it has been very confusing, however, I am sure her first husband was indeed Joseph, not William. I realize you are an Owen, and our lines don't meet, but you are the first one to have information on Frances Lee/Whiteley/Owens (my gggg grandmother). I don't know if you have the access to the 1808 indentured children document or not, but that would be great. (It doesn't mention the Owen children though) Did you have any death date on Frances? Where did they move to in Ky? What happened to her first husband remains a mystery. Two well known books claim he lived on, and died elsewhere, but I believe he died, and that is why I inquired about Frankeys marriage to William Owens.
Because only John and Polly were indentured, I have no information on the Sarah. Where did you find that? (by the way, John was born in 1802 according to our family records)
Again, THANK YOU sooo much for answering my post. It has helped.
Gratefully,
Sue

Re: Indentured Owens children - VA

christy577c — 2011-05-04 03:46:46Z

Sue,

As for whether they were "officially" married. Probably so. Frankey (Frances) Lea Whitely was a widow. Is noted in "Virginia Ancestors & Descendants, Lee Families" - I believe land records indicated sale of land also but will have to look.

What I have shows Frankey had 3 children by her first husband, William:
1. John Whitely, b. abt 1800
2. Mary "Polly" b. ab5 1804
3. Sarah b. abt 1808

Children of 2nd Marriage to William Owens:
1. Jane b 1819 - married Wm. Grigsby Feb 18, 1836 (11 children)
2. Frances "Frankey" b. 1821 - married Thomas Grigsby, Jan 6, 1837 (10 children)
3. William Jr. b 1822 - married Frances Caudill (sold their land & moved to Madison Co. AR abt 1857) (7 known children)
4. James b. 1824 - sometimes erroneously listed as son of Reese - married Rachael Campbell (sometimes listed as Rachael Combs) (8 children)
5. Harvey b. 1826 - married Jan 5, 1843, Polly Combs.

I have not proved all of these connections. Most are not in my husband's direct line. But I would be happy to try to find records for ones important to your research.

Chris

Re: Indentured Owens children - VA

suewhiteley178 — 2011-04-27 07:57:05Z

Hello Chris,
I'm trying to find out information about Frances (Franky) Whiteley and William Owen. You seem to know some things about them. You mentioned they moved to Ky, and had children. Who were the children? Do you know when Frances died? Was she officially married to William Owens?
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
Sue Whiteley

Re: Wheatly & Francis Bolen

barieesq — 2011-04-02 20:15:29Z

Dixe Barie and Rachel Bolen are my great-grand parents. I guess that makes us 2nd cousins once removed. I have a great aunt who told me about Wheatly and Francis Bolen but I don't have any other information about their families. My granfather Aught Barie was apparently named for your uncle Aught Bolen. I can help with the Barie family if you want any of that information.

Danny W. Barie
barieesq@yahoo.com

bean family

beanrusty — 2011-02-18 04:20:16Z

looking for any leads to my roots my grandfarthers name was john bean from st,charles,ky he married delsie knight.

Mariah Samuel's Mother's Name

dlh1962 — 2010-08-30 00:19:53Z

I'm searching for the name of Mariah Samuel's mother.I only know that she was born in Kentucky.Mariah was born in Miss. in 1848 and her race was Mulatto.Mariah's father was born in the Dist. of Columbia but, I don't have a name for him either. Mariah moved to Texas in 1870 and lived next door to her sister Batsey Samuel,born also in Miss. in 1853.I assume they were whole siblings but I'm not sure.

Wolf Pen School

jeanalongi — 2010-05-29 19:34:30Z

Hello,
I am looking for a picture of the old 2-room schoolhouse that was on Wolf Pen back in the 1940s. Does anyone know where I might get a copy of this?
Thank you,
Jean

Re: Information on Annie Vanderpool who married Allen Jones

myravg — 2010-03-04 18:31:14Z

Do you have any dates pertaining to Annie Vanderpool? Perhaps her marriage date or when she died. I might be able to help with a bit more information.
--Myra

Information on Annie Vanderpool who married Allen Jones

maddygurl6 — 2009-11-19 20:18:47Z

I would like any information I could get a hold of about my Great-grandmother. All I know is she died young possibly after the birth of her last child which was Allen Jones Jr. who is also deceased.

Re: Ishmael Stacy

11944 — 2009-05-24 17:42:49Z

I'm doing [Stacy] research for someone else, in Knott, Perry, Clay, Floyd, Estill, Breathitt counties.

Below are transcribed census etc. from ancestry.com its alway best to look at the original census copy to make your own opinion on names & dates etc. transcribers make mistakes
Good luck in your search.

1930 census
Ishmael Stacy abt 1916 Son
William age 58 1872 KY
Jennie age 53
Hindman, Knott, KY

1920 census
Ishmael Stacy abt 1916 Kentucky White Boy
william age 48 1872 KY
jennie age 44
children
Myrtle 14, Mable 12, Malissie 9, Ishmael 4
Troublesome, Perry, Kentucky

KY Births
Name: Ishmael Stacy
Date of Birth: 31 May 1915
County: Perry
Mother's Name: Jennie Stacy
Volume Number: 126
Certificate Number: 62512
Volume Year: 1915

KY DEATHS
Name: Ishmael Stacy
Death Date: 12 Dec 1955
Death Place: Knott
Age: 040
RESIDENCE: Knott
Volume: 54
Certificate: 26883
----------------
Name: William B Stacy
Age in 1910: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Birthplace: Kentucky
Father's Birth Place: Kentucky
Mother's Birth Place: Kentucky
Spouse's name: Jennie AGE 33
CHILDREN
MYRTLE 5 1905, MAYBLE 2 1908

Source Citation: Year: 1910; Census Place: Troublesome, Perry, Kentucky; Roll: T624_500; Page: 11A; Enumeration District: 173; Image: 83
--------------------------------

Name: William Stacy
Age: 25
Birth Date: Jun 1874
Birthplace: Kentucky
Father's Name: George age 49 abt 1851
Father's Birthplace: Kentucky
Mother's Name: Jane age 52
Mother's Birthplace: Kentucky
children
William 25, Sallie 19, Jane 17, Austuston 14
Source Citation: Year: 1900; Census Place: Troublesome, Perry, Kentucky; Roll: T623_548 Page: 6A; Enumeration District: 95

Name: William Stacy
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Birthplace: Kentucky
Father's Name: George age 26
Father's birthplace: Kentucky
Mother's Name: Jane age 30
Mother's birthplace: Kentucky
children
Angeline 11, William 9, Hulda 8, James A 6, Henry 1
Source Citation: Year: 1880; Census Place: , Perry, Kentucky; Roll: T9_438; Family History Film: 1254438; Page: 553.3000; Enumeration District: 82
---------------------------
so many Stacy Families named their sons
the same about the same year frame:
William Stacy abt 1870 Kentucky Son
f/Shade L.Stacy
m/Ceatta Bradley Stacy
Bakerfork, Breathitt, KY

William Stacy abt 1872 Kentucky Son
George,
Sarah
Martin, KY
----------------------

Name: George Stacy
Death Date: 4 Jul 1925
Death Location: Perry
Residence Location: Perry
Age: 73
Birth Date: 30 Aug 1851
Birth Location: Perry
Father's Name: John Stacy
Father's Birth Location: Perry
Mother's Name: Cintha /Sinthy Smith
Mother's Birth Location: Perry