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old st marcus in st. louis

Replies: 8

Re: Winner/Wenner family in St. Louis

Posted: 13 May 2013 10:08AM GMT
Classification: Query
Dear Kathy,
It's so great to hear from you! Yes, Florence Hildebrand was my mother. Her grandmother was Lizzie Winner, whose real name, it turns out, was Elise. She's listed as Elizabeth in some census records, and Mom's middle name was even Elizabeth, because her parents thought that was Lizzie Winner's real name. Then, later, she told them it wasn't!

Mom's father, Albert Winner, was Adela's first cousin. Lizzie had another, older son, Harry Buerk, by an Illinois man. There are descedants of that marriage, in Illinois.


My Mom knew Adela (called Della). Adela had three siblings, all with "A" names -- Alvin, Arthur, and Alice.

ALVIN--Married late in life, to a French teacher. They had a daughter, still living, Aldred Hellmich, who is in her early 70s. She lives in Webster Groves, Mo. She doesn't have any children.

ARTHUR--Died, I think, in the early 1970s. Might have been his wife, though. Arthur had two children, Raymond, and Dorothy. Raymond was a lawyer with one son, Stephen ( I think that's his name). Stephen is still alive. Dorothy was my Mom's age. She had a mental illness and died after her parents did.

ALICE--Taught for years in the St. Louis Public Schools. Never married and didn't want Alvin to marry. When he did, she boycotted the wedding, and didn't talk to Alvin for decades. She is buried in Valhalla Cemetery in St. Louis County.

Besides Lizzie, Minnie had another sister, Louisa. Both of them married two brothers, the Hellmichs. Louisa's children were Lillian, Eleanor and Bill. None of them married (although Eleanor was engaged) or had children. Bill died young of TB. They are buried in St. John's Cemetery, St. Cyr and Bellefontaine road in St. Louis County.

We are all descendants of Heinrich (Henry) and Johanne Mannecke, who came to the U.S. from Germany. (Also buried in St. John's.) There is a male line of Manneckes that I've been in contact with. The great-grandson of William Albert Mannecke lives near San Antonio. He's in his early 60s. There are other Manneckes descended from Henry and Johanne Mannecke. They're a little hard to sort out, because down through the generations, they've been called, interchangeably, William Henry or Henry William. Most of them are in Missouri, though.

Now here are some questions:
Is Keith Gabriel your brother? I met him when wwe both went to the University of Illinois. I was there in 1973-74. (I think he said he was from Peoria.)
Lillian and Eleanor talked a lot about Bob Gabriel. Is he your Dad? He used to come to Lillian and Eleanor's house near ours in St. Louis County and mow their grass. Did he go to Washington U? Was Rosemary Gabriel your aunt or great-aunt? From Bunker Hill? Didn't she have a sister? Did Adela died around June 1963? Was there a tornado around that time to? My younger brother was born then, and I think I remember Mom saying something about Della's death.

Write back soon!

Holly Hildebrand

Great-granddaughter of Lizzie Mannecke Winner

SubjectAuthorDate Posted
holly 10 Nov 2006 9:00PM GMT 
Charlie 11 Nov 2006 12:32AM GMT 
Holly 13 Nov 2006 4:00PM GMT 
Bob Buecher 22 Nov 2006 3:33AM GMT 
Holly Hildebrand 22 Nov 2006 3:48PM GMT 
chapell6 13 May 2013 2:00PM GMT 
VictorHugo2 13 May 2013 4:08PM GMT 
chapell6 14 May 2013 1:33PM GMT 
VictorHugo2 14 May 2013 3:29PM GMT 
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