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Please can someone Help with finding family

Replies: 40

Re: Please can someone Help with finding family

Posted: 26 Aug 2012 5:04PM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi....

First of all, not related, just trying to help.

There IS a marriage record online for a William Richard Smith, born July 8th (says on marriage record born in Texas - ?); father William Henry Smith, mother Samantha Hall....marries a "Norma Carty" who's claiming to be 21 years of age, born April 24, 1910 and living at 17 W Lincoln in Franklin County. They were married Jan 20, 1932.

IF this is Loretta Theil marrying under the name "Norma Carty", the marriage record is free online at the LDS FamilySearch site.

Now, Loretta's mother was Nora Anna McCarthey/McCarthy, born May 18, 1891/92 in Northern Ireland, the daughter of Michael and Catherine [Rile] McCarthey of Ireland...according to her marriage record to Frank R Theil.

Nora and Frank R Theil were married Feb 21, 1911 in Franklin County. They had the following kids:

Paul - born about 1912
Helen - b. 11/17/1913 - d. 6/18/1934 of a fractured skull which was under investigation.
Loretta - born about 1916/17
Margaret - born about 1918/19
Ruth - born about 1920
Richard Franklin Jr - b. 7/17/1924 - d. 11/9/1940 - of cancer
Norma J - born about 1928
John - born about 1930

Loretta shows up in the 1920 and 1930 Census's in Columbus with Frank and Nora; in the 1920 Census they're living at 651 Hamlet (and Nora is claiming birth in OH - parents Germany).....in 1930 Census, they're living at 17 W Lincoln [same address Loretta/"Norma Carty" gives in marriage record] - now Nora claims birth in Ireland. By 1940, Nora & Frank Theil are now living at 922 North High Street in Columbus with 2 children - Richard Jr who will die later that year, and daughter Norma J. Sure enough, on Richard Jr's death cert, the address is listed as 922 1/2 N High St.

As a side note, and for what it's worth, I did find a California death index record for a Nora Ann Theil, born May 28, 1890 in "other country", dying Jan 27, 1958 in Orange County, CA, parent/mother listed as "McCarthy". Also found an online OH death certificate for Frank R Theil, born Aug 4, 1887 in London, Madison, OH died April 7, 1947 at University Hospital in Columbus of respiratory failure - wife and informant - Nora Theil...they were living at 1248 Harrison in Columbus when he died. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if Nora headed west to CA after Frank died to see Loretta and kids and ended up dying there.


Frank's father was August Karl Theil (b. 20 Oct 1862 in Germany - died July 27, 1937 in Middletown, Butler, OH - buried in London, OH), and according to marriage record, Frank's mother was Amelia/Emily/Anna(b. Nov 1863 in Germany)...however, I find an Amelia Henrietta Springer Thiel buried next to August Karl Thiel (spelled 'ThIEl' now instead of 'ThEIl') born Nov 17, 1863 Germany - died June 16, 1946 Middletown, Butler, OH.

Margaret Thiel b. about 1918/19, Loretta's sister, pops up in the 1930 Census living with August & Emily Theil in Butler County, listed as their granddaughter. Yep.

[According to records, August's parents were Frederick William Theil/Thiel and Elizabeth Labinsky both of Germany....SO, if you're a direct descendent of Loretta Theil, there's some ancestry on her paternal side. On Loretta's maternal side, there's some Irish heritage.]

William Richard Smith....well....this gets confusing. :-0

First of all, I suspect that that is Loretta (Thiel) with the 2 kids, 'Billy' and Norma Jane in that 1940 Census for El Monte, LA, CA. On that marriage record where Wm R Smith marries Juanita (Turner) West in 1944, he states that his address is 49 E Russel St Columbus, but that he's stationed in Santa Ana, CA as a soldier....Santa Ana is in Orange County [where Nora Thiel died in 1958] and Santa Ana activated an Army Air Force Base in Santa Ana on Jan 1, 1942. So, he may have moved the family there in 1942 - then divorced Loretta - came home to Columbus on leave in 1944 - married Juanita....Yes, by 1946 they probably were living in Columbus, as that Army Air Base in Santa Ana was decomissioned on March 13, 1946.

You mentioned that Wm R had a brother Claude...born about 1917, right? Well, there's a memorial to a Claude Willard Smith on Find-a-Grave...that he was born Jan 9, 1917 - died Dec 22, 1959 in Columbus; was in the Navy in WWII. Person who posted the memorial says he was the son of Felix Smith* and Viola Gilbert. NOT SURE that this is the Claude you're looking for....[you may want to consider going to F-a-G and e-mailing the person that posted the memorials to Smiths in Ross County.]

You mentioned that a Claude Smith was listed in records as having lived at 654 Kerr St....that was Juanita's father's home address when she married Wm R Smith.

If you Google map Kerr St in Columbus, you'll see that Kerr runs into E Russell and E Russell runs into N High St (where the Thiel's lived)..and N High runs into W Lincoln (where Loretta Thiel also lived). They all sure lived close together.

Back to Claude's father (per F-a-G memorial) - "Felix" Smith. I'm coming up with some of the same stuff that another member here (Leona) came up with back in 2011 on your thread.

Look again at the marriage record for a William Henry Smith marrying a Bertha Cydrus in 1905 in Ross County; his name is listed as "William Henry Smith", yet he signs and puts "his mark - X" as FELIX SMITH....why?! Wm H is 32 at the time of this marriage, and surely doesn't need his father's consent....second, I don't believe at 32 he's never been married before either....plus, I found where Bertha Cydrus remarried later and claimed that she's never been married before either - lie!

I wonder, but do not know, if they're one and the same person. Go to F-a-G and look at the memorial to "Felix C Smith" - it mentions him being survived by a step-son William R Smith of LA, CA! Something's just not adding up here. Second, you'll see that that Felix Smith's other wife was "Mattie" (Samantha?) J Hall....I think he 1st married Viola, then Bertha, then Samantha/"Mattie"....so IF that "step-son" Wm R Smith of LA, CA is "your" Wm R Smith.......???? Or am I way off?

Hope this helps some...I see some more possible connections elsewhere...I think! But something is awry here, plus, there was some serious fibbing going on back then too.

I'll leave it at this for now as I'm confused!

Best wishes,
Kat in FL

SubjectAuthorDate Posted
pomaus_nch 15 Aug 2012 11:08AM GMT 
David Darding... 15 Aug 2012 2:01PM GMT 
pomaus_nch 15 Aug 2012 5:23PM GMT 
pomaus_nch 15 Aug 2012 6:04PM GMT 
David Darding... 15 Aug 2012 8:04PM GMT 
pomaus_nch 16 Aug 2012 9:19AM GMT 
David Darding... 16 Aug 2012 2:00PM GMT 
pomaus_nch 16 Aug 2012 5:59PM GMT 
Kat747 26 Aug 2012 11:04PM GMT 
pomaus_nch 27 Aug 2012 1:47PM GMT 
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