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grandfathers records

Replies: 17

Re: grandfathers records

Posted: 24 Oct 2009 12:10PM GMT
Classification: Query
Ah! Two good breakthroughs - finding his parent's names and then 4vivi finding Holm's birth.

I can tell that you are a very determined researcher, so I am going to give you a ton of information today with some suggestions for followup, including Sweden, where Thora Berg's father had come from. As I wrote this, I was discovering the records along the way, so I hope that you can print things out, sort them, save them and organize them. There are certainly other avenues to search, I really only traced Holm's mother Thora Berg back in time. I didn't find anything about his father. Not that it doesn't exist, I just didn't go that direction.

When you look at the birth records online that 4vivi provided links for, you can see them better if you do some things:

Open the link, then on the top of the page you see a little drop down window that defaults to 40%. If you click on the arrow next to that, you can choose other sizes for the page to be viewed at. Up to 150%.

Another way to see and save that information permanently to your computer and then print it, or manipulate it, (size, etc.) is to save the actual jpg image for this record.

Scans of the church records can also be obtained from your local LDS/Mormon church genealogy research center, if you know what the source of the records is. In this case, those scanned church records are also online, made available to you from the University of Bergen, in Norway, on their Digital Archives website.

The first link 4vivi provided is from the Klokkerbok - the duplicate copy of church records that was kept by the church "klokker" like a deacon of a church, so that in case one set of the records burned, the other set was still intact at a different location.

Kildeinformasjon (source information): Østfold fylke, Eidsberg i Eidsberg, Klokkerbok nr. I 2 (1903-1913), Fødte og døpte 1906, side 26.

Permanent (internet page link) sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=361&id...


Permanent bildelenke (photo link): http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20060404031027....

This last permanent bildelenke is the one to save to your computer.

Here are the same records, the Minister himself kept these - maybe in the church or in his office in the parish house.
Away from the Klokkerbok records, these are the Ministerialbok records.(bok means book)
Source information:
Kildeinformasjon: Østfold fylke, Eidsberg i Eidsberg, Ministerialbok nr. I 14 (1902-1919), Fødte og døpte 1906, side 28.

Permanent internet page link:
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=22804&...

Permanent photo link:
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb10040903120036....

Remember, on the permanent page link, sidelenke, you can increase the view to 150% to really examine them.

There are some notes at the end of the baptism record in the Ministerial book - it would be nice to get a native Norwegian speaker to translate them. Maybe you could post the link to the Ministerial book, and a new query, and ask for translation help.

I think it says, using this NOrway genealogy dictionary from the LDS/Mormon website familysearch.org,

Uægte - Illegitimate birth

Begges 1st leiemaal - both of the parents first illicit intercourse.
Anmeldt af barnets moder. Reported by the child's mother.
Tilskrevet Sognepresten i Skedsmo 5/2 06
Written to the parish minister in Skedsmo parish on Feb. 5, 1906.

I totally am not so sure about the meaning of the last part. Skedsmo is not in østfold county.

so maybe that last sentence I didn't quite get.

The mother is Thora Amalia Larsdatter Berg.

In 1900 on the census, I find a Thora Berg, as a pleiedatter - foster daughter, living still in Eidsberg, østfold county. Born 1887 as the Holm birth records indicated for the mother.

http://www.rhd.uit.no/folketellinger/ftliste_e.aspx?ft=1900&...

Census year: 1900
Municipality: Rødenes
Municipality number: 0120
Name of domicile: Lund
Number of persons in this domicile: 6

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Name Family status Marital status Occupation Birth year Place of birth Ethnicity
Johan Lysaker hf g Grdbr. forpagter 1868 Rødenes Sm
Anna Lysaker hm g Forpagterkone 1874 Ulensaker Ak
Signe Lysaker d ug Datter 1899.11.27 Rødenes Sm
Johannes Sperlien tj ug Gårdsgut, jordbr. 1884 Rakkestad Sm
Ludvig Johansen tj ug Kvægrøgter 1868 Rødenes Sm
Thora Berg pleiedatter ug Pleiedatter 1887 Eidsberg Sm

I believe that I found Holm's mother's (Thora Amalia Larsdatter Berg) confirmation record, which gives information on her parents. and her birthdate.

Kildeinformasjon: Østfold fylke, Rødenes i Rødenes, Klokkerbok nr. I 2 (1901-1910), Konfirmerte 1901, side 80.

Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=5769&i...

Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20060920020437....

In Rødenes parish, østfold county, Thora Berg is living in 1900 as a foster daughter, with a family at the Lund farm.

In 1901 at about age 14, she is confirmed at Rødenes parish, Ostfold county.

Thora Amalia Larsdatter is entry # 11 at the bottom of the page:

Confirmed on the 6th of October, 1901 in Rødenes parish, in Ostfold county, Norway.
Born Jan. 23, baptised March 13, 1887, Thora Amalia Larsdatter, born and baptised in Sandaas, Herland (church?) now living (in 1901) at Lund, Rødenes. Her father was bachelor (ungkarl) Lars Magnus Johansen, and single girl (pige) Thea Hansdatter. Thora Amalia Larsdatter was vaccinated for smallpox on July 15, 1890. Her three grades in confirmation class were : Good, Trunnelig good? Goodk. So maybe Good, but not fabulous. The ones above her had Very good.

The parish it says she was baptised in is Herland, but I see that it is Hærland spelling variation also, and that is located in Eidsberg - maybe Hærland/Herland is a local parish church in the bigger main parish of Eidsberg.

Here is Thora Amalia Larsdatter Berg's birth record scan of the church book. It has a lot of notations on it that I can't really 100% accurately translate, so I would suggest that this is another one that you should ask for translation help with this birth record.

Kildeinformasjon: Østfold fylke, Hærland i Eidsberg, Ministerialbok nr. II 1 (1879-1900), Fødte og døpte 1887, side 33.

Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=5460&i...

Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20060906010019....

Thora Amalia Larsdatter Berg is listing # 5 on the bottom girls half of the page. It shows that her parents aren't married, but I think they could have gotten married at a later date. It also indicates that her father is born in Sweden, and that there are more kids than Thora Amalia that are born out of wedlock.

Thora Amalia, born 23 Jan., baptised 13 March, 1887,

The notes on her parents are complex to my limited Norwegian, but it says her parents are:

Bachelor, Swedish by birth, daylaborer Lars Magnus Johansson, single girl Thea Hansdatter,

then some dates which I think might relate either to other children being born to them, or to the Banns being read in preparation for their wedding, The word ægteskap is in there, which means marriage, and maybe the marriage date of Apr. 23, 1887.

Thora Amalia's parents lived at Sandaas there in Hærland, and her father was born Dec. 3, 1852 (in Sweden?) and mother born July 19, 1867. Then the list of baptismal sponsors, and the Uægte column - Illegitimate,and then the last column might say that it's the mother's 2nd illegitimate child's birth, and the father's 4th.

Aha! Here is Thora Amalia Larsdatter Berg's Parents' marriage record, there in Eidsberg main parish, Hærland subparish, in Ostfold county, Norway, on the Swedish border.

Kildeinformasjon: Østfold fylke, Hærland i Eidsberg, Ministerialbok nr. II 1 (1879-1900), Ekteviede 1885-1887, side 129.

Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=5460&i...

Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20060906010116....

They were married on the date indicated in Thora Amalia's bbaptism record. Scroll way down to the bottom of the page, to 1887, Apr. 23.

The information there will get to even back to your Swedish roots, since it names the parish in Sweden.

1887 Apr. 23, 1st marriage for both.
Lars Magnus Johansson Berg, Day laborer living at Sandaas (the farm place in Herland), from Ryr Parish, in Elfsborg Län (a county in Sweden) born Dec. 3, 1852 in Ryr. confirmed in 1869 in Ryr. Lars Magnus Johansson's father was named Johan Johnsson (maybe he's dead because of the cross by his name)

wife is Thea Hansdatter, born in Gamle Aker parish (I think is near Oslo in Akershus county) Gamle Aker has a lot of records online)
She was born Jul 19, 1867, Gamle Aker parish.
was confirmed in Eidsberg in 1882, had last been for communion? in 1885.
Thea's father was a miller (Møller) Hans Johansen, who maybe also is dead by their marriage time.

Elfsborg Län is written in Swedish with the first letter a captial ä - älvsborg. Here is a Wiki article about it:
The County of Älvsborg, or Älvsborgs län, was a county of Sweden until December 31, 1998 when it was merged with the counties of Gothenburg and Bohus and Skaraborg to form the county of Västra Götaland.

Here is the query site for the historic county of Älvsborg, you would need Ryr parish information for Lars Magnus Johansson Berg? b. Dec. 3, 1852 to Johan Johansson.

http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.scan-balt.sweden.histc...

There is also the current county posting board, where Älvsborg is located today, Västra Götaland

http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.scan-balt.sweden.count...









SubjectAuthorDate Posted
BLINNIE22 6 Oct 2009 11:38AM GMT 
thoraway 6 Oct 2009 5:13PM GMT 
BLINNIE22 6 Oct 2009 10:42PM GMT 
thoraway 7 Oct 2009 1:35AM GMT 
TarynMN 9 Oct 2009 3:35AM GMT 
BLINNIE22 22 Oct 2009 11:07AM GMT 
4vivi 24 Oct 2009 1:41PM GMT 
TarynMN 24 Oct 2009 6:10PM GMT 
TarynMN 24 Oct 2009 6:27PM GMT 
TarynMN 24 Oct 2009 7:02PM GMT 
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