Burdens - Family History & Genealogy Message Board

Re: Resources

rddavis1_1 — 2010-12-16 17:24:17Z

This has to be the best resource I have found for finding info about family info from all over the world.

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/ancestorsearchresults...

Re: Helenore parentage

rddavis1_1 — 2010-12-15 22:55:16Z

Here's Helen of Devonshire ca 943-1002 whose mother is Redburch which leads to the possible name variation of Robergia.

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~havens5/p2...

Re: Helenore parentage

rddavis1_1 — 2010-12-15 22:30:01Z

I went looking for her possible parents, now check out the first one that I pulled up and who his mother is..

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~havens5/p2...

Re: Judith of Flanders

rddavis1_1 — 2010-12-15 21:34:15Z

You'll note in this wiki post about her that Interestingly, Judith's son by her third marriage, Baldwin II of Flanders would go on to marry Alfred's daughter, Ælfthryth (also known as Elfrida).

Link to the wiki page. She's a very interesting figure to history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_of_Flanders

Re: Francis and Robergia parentage

rddavis1_1 — 2010-12-15 19:50:53Z

Interesting old poem about the battle of hastings

http://www.exclassics.com/rowley/rowl38.htm

Re: Francis and Robergia parentage

rddavis1_1 — 2010-12-15 19:45:31Z

Some other history of my search I failed to add on the above post.

I've seen people with Robergia in their trees refer to her as a Bayeux

rddavis1_1 Other Bayeux possibilites
Dec 13 5:55 PM
Dutchess Poppa de Bayeux, Normandie
http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/1810201/person/-249896072?ssr...=

Daughter Berenger de Bayeux I may have sent you her already
http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/10563923/person/-160187809?ss...=

Since they are cousins I don't see him marrying her for the title or money, since that is the case I would expect to find his father and mother somewhere.

I also found this it talks about Bayeux and some of the De Bayeux's
http://www.boydhouse.com/alice/Green/SalisburyTwentyFirstGen...

rddavis1_1 Subject: This must be it.
Dec 13 6:20 PM
http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/5347292/person/-503982350?ssr...=

rddavis1_1 Subject:Puzzling
Dec 13 6:36 PM
if you go to this one and go to

http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/1810201/person/-249896072?ssr...=

the "find a person in this tree"
type in Bayeux, you'll get a dropdown list and you'll notice Robergia listed.
However when you go to her they don't tie her or Francis back into these people

and that gets us to where I began the post above

rddavis1_1 Subject: Found it for sure!!
Dec 13 6:58 PM
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=AHN&d...

If you have problems with the link send me an email to rddavis1@hughes.net and I'll send you a real link..

God bless,
Rob

Re: Francis and Robergia parentage

rddavis1_1 — 2010-12-15 19:24:30Z

I guess for those who weren't privy to my original messages on this subject who may come across this thread later I should post them here also.

rddavis1_1
Dec 13 11:14 PM GMT
Possible ancestor of Francis born Bayeux, Normandie, France, ca 1100

http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/126955/family/pedigree#pedigr...

rddavis1_1 another Bayeux posible
Dec 13 5:29 PM
http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/17303261/person/522701882?ssr...=

Here's a link to the parentage in France of Francis marrd to Robergia
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&d...

that takes us back to Louis 1 ca 950 AD

rddavis1_1 subject Louis 1
Today 11:41 AM
the answer is here. not sure yet what it is...but it's got to be in the following link.

http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/4207667/family/familygroup?fp...

rddavis1_1 subject "Answers"
Today 11:43 AM
rddavis1_1
Yesterday 5:05 PM GMT
I knew the answer was there, I've not completely put it together but you'll notice in the following link that "Judith of the west Franks" is married to Aethelwulf of Wessex and Elfrida of Kent is decended from one of the Aethelwulf's mrrd to Simon Bourdon ca 1100,

Judith of the west is dau. of Charles ii and He West Franks, Charles is the son of Louis I and Judith of Bavaria. now Louis 1 had numerous wives and numerous children from the looks of this lineage, unless some of the are the same people named differently as I'm sure we all know by now is entirely possible. I'll keep looking at it, searching for more info, etc. if anyone else figures it out before I do, let me know so I can share it with everybody else. Then we can all get the same info entered so poor saps like me don't have to wade thru hundreds of the same people with different names to find the pertinent one... :-)

Thanks and Enjoy
Rob

http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/4207667/family/familyview

rddavis1_1
Today 11:52 AM
rddavis1_1
Yesterday 5:31 PM GMT
Louis 1 grandson of Emperor

http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/2293869/family/pedigree

rddavis1_1
Yesterday 5:49 PM GMT
King Egbert, xxxgreatgrandson of Judith and Aethelwulf, has dau. Elfrida Gueen of England. I knew I could figure it out....VBG....

http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/15210543/family/pedigree#pedi...

rddavis1_1 Subject: Louis1 thru Louis Philippe III post's
Yesterday 11:28 PM GMT
The following taken from the http://www.mauriceboddy.org.uk/ProvK.htm is about Louis Philippe III King of Provence, Emperor, King of Italy, etc. He is the father of everybodies Francis de Bourdon/Bourbon.
NOw if you do a "public family tree" search on ancestry.com, take and leave blank the main name, put in any variation of Louis King of Italy, Louis Philippe III, Louis Emperor, etc. as the first name on the father "no last name" then on the mothers first name put only the first name Adelaide, put in the date 1050 "or not" put in the birth place as "Picardie" which is the region of france where Bourdon and Bayeux is located "or not put it in" , hit search, you can then take your pick as to which one is Francis, I noticed of the children it lists that there is a daughter mrrd to a Francios, I think people are getting the spouse of the daughter mixed up with the spouse of the son, or they had multiple first names which is most likely since you find the same people called so many different things. Pay attention to the spouse names as your looking at the children of Louis and Adelaide (below is the info I mentioned at the beginning of this update.)

40. [PRO5321] Louis the blind (born 880, son of King Boson & Ermengard) was betrothed (June/July 901) to Anna (born c.882, daughter of EMPEROR LEO VI of BYZANTIUM). However there is no proof that the marriage actually took place. Anna probably died soon afterwards, as her younger half-sister (born 903-04) was also named Anna. It seems probable that instead Louis married (c.902-05) Adelaide (possibly daughter of King Rudolf I of Burgundy). Louis was King of Provence (890-922), EMPEROR (900-01), and King of Italy (900-05, deposed). Louis was blinded by Berengar (905) for breaking his promise never to return to Italy. He retreated to Provence for the remainder of his life. He died at Arles (5th June 928).

rddavis1_1
Today 11:54 AM
I think I got really lost in processing all the info when I wrote this one, I'm not sure if I got my thoughts conveyed correctly....VBG

rddavis1_1 Subject: "The Story"
Today 1:57 AM GMT
Now in researching this I found someone who had a story about Robergia of Kent and husband Francis DeBourdon that had the following info in it.

("While on their honeymoon in 1869, Richard Y. and Lavinia (BORDEN) COOK visited the village of Borden. (Lavinia (BORDEN) COOK, born 10 March 1845, was the daughter of John H. (b. 1819), son of Josiah (b. 1769), son of Francis IV (b. 1740), son of Francis III (b. 1709), son of Francis II (b. 1680), son of Francis (b. 1628), son of Richard BORDEN (1595/6-1671), the immigrant.) In a secret nightly mission they removed the stone in the church bearing the BORDEN Coat of Arms. They found that this stone was hollow and contained a cylindrical leaden box which also bore the BORDEN Coat of Arms. Inside the box was a cylinder of yellow cloth of well oiled linen and waxed on the inside. This contained a parchment manuscript prepared in 1220 A.D. by Robergia DeBOURDON. She wrote that her son Richard "will be strong, a man of iron, wise and peaceful. From him the BORDEN line will succeed. It is now 154 years since Count William of Normandy defeated and killed the Great Harold, King of England, at Hastings. There fell also Ethelwolf my Saxon mother's grandfather and Lord of all the lands which William the Conqueror gave to his vassal, Francis DeBOURDON. My mother was Elfrida of Kent; my father was Simon DeBOURDON." More details are contained in the book Robergia: A Story of Old England, by Richard Y. COOK, written in the summer of 1901." )

Now, taking that info, "Ethelwulf Lord of all the lands which William the conquerer gave to his vassel Francis DeBourdon" add to that the 154 years "since William killed Harold and There fell also Ethelwolf". Google the "battle of hastings" it happened in 1066. Ethelwulf wasn't killed there either. You take that info and go here.

http://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/saxon_21.htm

You go back 154 years from 1066 that puts you around 912 AD, you'll notice that is the time it is Edward the Elder is the Saxon monarch at the time, He was marrd among others to (3) Edgiva of Kent,now taking all the information Ethelwolf/Aethelwulf "Lord of all the lands" it takes us up to Ethelwulf son of Egbert and Redburga 839-856 mrrd (1) Osburga (2) Judith of Flanders now that puts us at a much earlier date by about another 150 years right about the time of Louis Philippe III "The Blind" King of Provence, Emperor France and King of Italy who was the father of Francis. excerpt following of provence kingdom I sent link to earlier.
"Louis the blind (born 880, son of King Boson & Ermengard) was betrothed (June/July 901) to Anna (born c.882, daughter of EMPEROR LEO VI of BYZANTIUM). However there is no proof that the marriage actually took place. Anna probably died soon afterwards, as her younger half-sister (born 903-04) was also named Anna. It seems probable that instead Louis married (c.902-05) Adelaide (possibly daughter of King Rudolf I of Burgundy). Louis was King of Provence (890-922), EMPEROR (900-01), and King of Italy (900-05, deposed). Louis was blinded by Berengar (905) for breaking his promise never to return to Italy. He retreated to Provence for the remainder of his life. He died at Arles (5th June 928)."
now excepting all of the story is true, there is but one conclusion, That therefore makes this Francis or his brother http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/126955/person/-1263513285?ssr...=
Now here another son of (or the same one) Louis III "the stammerer" this one is mrrd to Eadgifu of England, doesn't give the date though. Now if we except that Robergia and Francis were buried where and when it says that would make even more of the story untrue as I see it. I however believe the story is mainly true, without being in England I can't go and check to see the dates "if any" on the grave marker so I don't know exactly when they died, nor for that matter what the parchment said "if there is one". The only way the complete story makes sense is to come to the conclusion that the dates are simply off, everything else adds up.

Hope this helps everybody,
Rob Davis
P.S. I don;t just take peoples word for things, if they are who they say they are, there'll be some reference in history to them, no matter how small, I'll find it. as you all can see I don't give up, and when I'm on a trail, I'm like a bloodhound and a pitbull put together, must be my indian blood. If it don't make sense it ain't true. I don't just look at the one thing I'm working on, when you get into the kind of people that Robergia and Francis obviously were i.e. social class, etc. no matter how you look at it. They were obviously somebody, They don't just appear out of no where, (even poor people came from somewhere) and people of their class and social standing there is going to be some reference to them somewhere. Even if they were the Patriarch of a family, that Patriarch has to have a father and mother, if their parents were poor then there is an even "Greater" chance of finding historical accounts because that is an even greater accomplishment, than if you were simply the illegitimant or younger son of a monarch who started your own "dynasty". so if they're there and they're are the ones that started the family from nothing I am going to find them in history, if I don't find them, their parents have to have been somebody too. Once again, I'll find them, dates may not match but when you get back that far, unless you're in the history book somewhere "and I've found them to be wrong too" and an eyewitness wrote about you and put the date down right then, you can't really go by the dates they give centuries later i.e they're not set in stone...

rddavis1_1 Subject:Francis 1
Today 11:56 AM
this guy and his lineage fits, problem is its a couple or three huundred years too late.

http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/1586494/family/pedigree#pedig...

Subject: History
Have I gotten totally lost in this stuff or what? I know the answer has to be in those links that talk about emerande and Louis fleeing to his uncles who adopted him. I was looking at the different branches of minor nobility in that and there is Bayeux county where it talks about some Louis Philippe's I think 1 & 2 or 2&3 anyhow. In looking at all the info it makes sense to me that

1 either it sense to me that it is (3) Edgiva of Kent married to Edward the Elder instead of Elfreda ow as we know from that link I sent that had Elfreda queen of england mrrd to I can't remember right now. So there was probably a lot of Elfreda's.

2. The story say "all of the land that william the conqueror gave to his vassel" well there was a Bayeux from Bayeux that William gave control of the area of England that includes kent. That Bayeux however is ODo Bishop of Bayeux and Earl of Kent. Could this be the Francis it speaks of coming with William? he was williams half brother, problem is, Odo from what I have seen died in Italy, He did have a son however... one that I know of so far and that son according to everybody on ancestory died in France.

NOw Elfreda said that her grandfather died with Harold at hastings.... I haven't found any historical reference to that yet.

However I did find the following from a book "The book of dignities: containing rolls of the official personages of the...... written by Joseph Haydn"

"Edward the Confessor, son of Ethelred II. by Emma, his 2nd queen; a tranquil
and prosperous reign: died Jan.5,1066, naming William of Normandy his heir."

It is then that William invades England, now that is some intriguing fact and opens up the possibilities, I didn't know that he was named heir
, now Hraold Godwin was "Earl of Kent" and had only reigned nine months when he was killed at Hastings, another interesting point that possibly has no bearing on where I'm going.

NOw there is an Edgar Atheling that is obviously descended somehow from Aethelwulf, haven't checked that out to know exactly yet. I found him in the following book "A pictorial history of England By Samuel Griswold Goodrich" (you can find these on google books..) He took refuge with Malcolm the King of Scotland, who married margaret one of his sisters, meaning Edgar's sister I hope....they fought against william even after Hastings, Edgar wasn't killed in that fighting and he ended up submitting to Williams authority. Could he be the Elfreda grandfather that was killed at Hastings?

Something else interesting I found on a site talking about the beginning of the horse in Britain, since we're all related somehow to Alfred, Judith and Ethelwolf I figured everyone would be interested.
"When Judith, the daughter of Charles the Bald, king of France, came to this country on her marriage with Ethelwolf, we learn she was attended by numerous horsemen who rode "magnificent Spanish horses"; but it is not until the reign of Alfred the Great, the fourth son of Ethelwolf, that we obtain any distinct information that horses received especial care, or that their propagation was intelligently supervised. This prince was well qualified to inaugurate this important business, as he had visited Rome, where he met many learned churchmen and others, from whom he received not only his early lessons in religion and in secular matters, but also in equestrian exercises, in which the patrician Roman youth took a great delight. This youthful visit to Rome placed him in a position to make constant observations, and particularly concerning the various breeds of horses, from among which those most conspicuous for their beauty and other qualifications could be selected. There is no doubt the pastimes indulged in by the Romans did not escape the notice of Alfred, and when he arrived at man's estate he was possessed of such knowledge as enabled him to inaugurate a system of horse- breeding." since the link to the story is short here it is.
http://chestofbooks.com/animals/horses/Health-Disease-Treatm...

Another interesting point about Judith mrrd to William.....she was only 16 yrs old when William died, Alfred the GReat then mrrd her after the death of William, therefore marrying his own step-mother, young though she was this caused him to have problems with the church. I also noticed when I read this that it called her "the oft married Judith" I think that her father used her as quite the political tool to suit his own ends. It said because of her marriage to Alfred and the problems it caused with the church that her father then came, took her and made her join a nunnery. Can you imagine what it must have been like for her?....I haven't studied her yet, but she may be one of our more interesting relatives to research.

Hope I've helped everybody in whatever small way I could..

Rob Davis

Re: Francis and Robergia parentage

rddavis1_1 — 2010-12-15 18:45:57Z

Something I noticed in looking at this page.

http://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/saxon_21.htm

Egbert circa 780
son of Ealhmund of Kent 827-839 married Redburga, could this be where the name Robergia came from? Now as short a time as I've been doing this I would guess you've all noticed tracing your lineages that you get back to 1200 and before they had some pretty close relatives getting married to each other. The further you go the closer the family ties become in a lot of them.

Could Robergia be a play later down the lineage, I've noticed they also used variations of the same name down thru their children. Is Robergia therefore a decsendent of that original Redburga? I'll have to go investigate that possibilty.

Francis and Robergia parentage

rddavis1_1 — 2010-12-15 18:16:18Z

I want to start this thread by telling eveyone my plans for all the info contained within my ancestors lineage, history, etc.

After I get enough info together to make a pretty complete picture, I am going to make a large world map both hard copy on my wall and digital on my computer. Now I have a professional background in computer aided design, 3d modeling, programming for certain applications, and computer graphics. I am going to use this to aid me in the creation of this map, haven't decided yet what programs I'm going to use to do it. However I decide to do it, I am going to make it where other people in my family can add their info to it so they can have copies for themselves and their families.

I am going to follow thru history the different family lines using color coding, noting related and interesting historical facts along the way, who, what, where, why, etc.

As you all may see I like helping others, I therefore am more than happy to share the digital version of the map with cousins in my family interested in it.

Rob Davis

P.S. I am going to be posting updates here on the Burden/Borden/Bourdon/Bourbon story

Edmon Collins Burden

quartetsinger — 2009-11-02 14:16:58Z

Does anyone know who the parents of Edmon Collins Burden are? Having trouble fitting him in the tree. He's dangling out on a limb untill I can find his place. Any help would be greatly appreciated!