Butterfield - Family History & Genealogy Message Board

Georgie Butterfield, Lincoln VT

Alan_Lathrop — 2009-11-02 02:26:12Z

I am trying to find out who a Georgie Butterfield might be. I find her grave stone in the middle of the Delphy family in Lee Cemetery, Lincoln VT. Can not read it but best guess is Georgie, daughter of --Butterfield, died March 1 1870, age 2 years. The other 10 are all family so wonder if her mother might of been part of the Delphy/ Delphia family. Thanks, Alan

Re: Abraham Butterfield of Lumbfoot, Haworth.

androo4519 — 2009-10-14 09:45:06Z

I've found out now, so no need to reply.

Re: Butterfields in Rhode Island

Andrewscarew — 2009-10-12 12:54:23Z

My grandmother's last name was Clark and that family was from Saratoga, and also related to Carlis Butterfield. Is this perhaps your family as well?

Re: John Hugh Butterfield

stephanietsmith — 2009-10-04 16:25:24Z

I am also trying to identify the parents of John Hugh Butterfield. I am his GGGrandson; my father was Charles Smith, the son of Lillian Butterfield, the daughter of William Ren., the son of John Hugh Butterfield.

John Butterfield of Overland Stage was married in 1822, the same year John H. was born according to the information at his grave site and the 1870 census we have for him. If our ancestor is his son, then his birth was cutting a little close for propriety. I also traced the Hiram Butterfield path from Vermont to New York, but the Hiram who was born in 1805 had no sons named John, and the second Hiram was born too close to our ancestor to be his father. I’m thinking that we might try looking at any records or accounts from the Oregon Trail around 1850. I am happy to share any information I find as well.

Charlie Smith

Re: John Hugh Butterfield

ranamuk — 2009-09-04 00:14:58Z

Hi,

I just came across your post. I still trying to find John Hugh's parents but have had no luck.

How are you related to John Hugh? Jack Butterfield is my dad. His dad was Fredrick W. Butterfield, his father was William Wrenfrew Butterfield and his father was John Hugh Butterfield.

I'm always willing to share research.

Regards,
Sandi Butterfield

Re: Benjamin Butterfield b.1547 - Susan Ann Wood b.1548

kah0026 — 2009-08-30 15:45:15Z

I have all the siblings but they are in my Butterfield book which is on the way to Az with us tomorrow (all packed away).

If you will write me at kah0026@aol.com, I will retrieve for you on my return (somewhere around Sept 5-7th)

Karen Butterfield Hudelson

Re: Benjamin Butterfield b.1547 - Susan Ann Wood b.1548

kah0026 — 2009-08-30 15:42:16Z

Robert:

This is definitely my family - thank you so much, another "link" to follow.

Please write kah0026@aol.com and when I return to Az. where all my books are, I will be happy to share info with you if you have any "gaps" in your history.

Karen Butterfield Hudelson

Re: General Butterfield Indian Pricess

kah0026 — 2009-08-30 15:39:31Z

I am not sure, but you might be speaking of General Daniel Butterfield (I think he married an indian woman). He was responsible in some way for the music "Taps" if I remember correctly. I was told he was in our family, but have not made that specific link yet. We are on our way tomorrow from Michigan back to Arizona and all of my writings of General Butterfield are in my Butterfield Book. If you would write me at kah0026@aol.com, I will respond when I get back to Az, approx Sept 5-7 sometime.
Karen butterfield Hudelson

Re: Benjamin Butterfield b.1547 - Susan Ann Wood b.1548

Dolly2680 — 2009-08-30 14:13:53Z

Indeed! I have a whole tree dating back from Ben & Ann living in Massachusetts down throug his son, Nathaniel's line, who ended up in Bermuda. I've been looking for Ben's origins in the UK so is this Ben of 1547 his father? Does anyone have any other info like other siblings, etc.?
Does anyone also know that the Butterfields of Bermuda were closely related to the Darrells, originally of Littlecote Manor in Wiltshire, UK. They married into the Seymore family (then of Littlecote), and their descendant, Jane married King Henry viii.

Re: John Butterfield - Overland Stage

Dolly2680 — 2009-08-30 12:21:32Z

Hi ajh147
It's been a while since my last post, so i was surprised to get a message! Re Ben and Ann: according to the family tree I have (compiled in 1942 by a friend of my father's) they were reported living in Charlestown, MA, in 1638, then Woborn, then Chelmsford in 1640.
They had 5 children: Jonathan, Mary, Nathaniel, Samuel and Joseph. I made a pencil mark some years ago that Jonathan married a Mary Dixon, although I can't remember where I found that out, now! I've got nothing on Mary and Samuel but I have Joseph married to Lydia Ballard (b 1657 Andover, Essex, MA - d 1674 Chelmsford, MA). They apparently had a son Joseph who married a Eunice. Again, i can't remember where i found this out, but it could possibly have been through the Ancestry website.
The important one for me, though, it Ben and Ann's son, Nathaniel, from whom I am descended. He like his father, married an Ann and came to Bermuda around 1662/3 and was a Member of the Assembly of Bermuda in around 1684.
Anyway, the rest as they say, is history. That line of the Butterfield family stayed in Bermuda (although some, I believe did go back to the US) and did very well for themselves, one of the principle descendants being the founder the Bank of N T Butterfield, Nathaniel T Butterfield, from whom I am directly descended. He would be my ggg grandfather.
John Butterfield of Overland Mail also fits in there somewhere, but I'm not sure where. My uncle (father's youngest brother) sent the family a book called Butterfield Overland Mail by Waterman L Ormsby, apparently the first passenger of the first westbound stage. John Butterfield was president of the Company and was born in Borne, NY 18 November 1801. He was also one of the founders of American Express, formed in 1850. The book is an account of Mr Ormsby's trip on the stage to San Fransisco in September 1858, but the introduction of the book does have a bit more info about John.
I do have a bit more on Ben's son, Nathaniel and his children if you're interested.
Do hope some of this helps & hope i haven't prattled on too much!

Re: John Butterfield - Overland Stage

ajh147 — 2009-08-30 02:24:49Z

I am relatively new in my search & interested in any info. that anyone might have on my gggg grandfather John Hawks Butterfield B 5.1.1780 Jaffrey, Cheshire Co, NH D 10.5.1865 Clay Twp, Morgan Co, IN. I know his father was Jonathan Butterfield II & Mother was Martha Blanchard 1755-1848 but I do not have any birth or death info on Johanthan II or I. I have found that Benjamin & Ann Jundon Butterfield originally coming over from England in the 1630's had a son named Jonathan. Just wondering if anyone might have more details on the children of Benjamin & Ann?

Nathaniel Butterfield

onlyonegill — 2009-08-22 23:49:33Z

Hi
I am also directly related to the Tuckers and Butterfields of Bermuda, and have a commemorative book given to my family by the bank and some correspondance from them from many years back, my line comes to the UK, with Rosalie Tucker Butterfield, (daughter of Nathaniel T Butterfield and Catherine Tucker... and sister of Nathaniel Augustus)marrying my great great grandfather Charles William Gray.. would this info be of interest to anyone here...
Gilly

Re: Dan's family

goedwards2000 — 2009-08-20 05:19:59Z

After several years of searching, I think I have found my branch of Butterfields. Seems we descend from the Benjamin Butterfield III of Yorkshire, England and Ann Jundon. As I understand it, most all Butterfields trace back to the same Benjamin. I don't have any of the names you mentioned in my files, but I am sure we are connected somehow.. Good luck and Happy Searcing.

Re: Dan's family

stephaniem714 — 2009-08-20 03:48:01Z

KLB,
My great great grandfather is John Monroe Butterfield. Did you find any additional information??

My grandmother's father is Jesse Monroe, John's first son.

Re: Dan's family

stephaniem714 — 2009-08-20 01:57:35Z

I believe my Butterfield's are of Dodge County, WI. My grandmother Gladys Butterfield was born In MN but her parents were Edith Sharbonda and Jesse Butterfield. Jesse's parents were John Monroe Butterfield and Laura Eliza Wilder. John M's parents I believe are Benjamin J. and Amanda Lee (of NY) and they married Dec.31,1955 in Dodge County.

I have heard a family story about an Indian woman kidnapping a baby and the tribe giving a baby in return?? I'm not sure how far back this might have happened, I was very young when I heard the story.

oh and goedwards my butterfield's also seemed to have a family tradition of passing down names..

Re: john boddy butterfield and family

smp39 — 2009-08-11 14:50:20Z

i found this about john henry
from the Times Newspaper, 1857, jan. 20

"Court for relief of insolevent debtors. The following persons .. have obtained interim orders for protection from process, are required to appear in Court ... 4th Feb, at 10 am

John Henry Butterfield, late of Carlton Villas, Studley Road, Stockwell, Surrey, previously of 4, Warwick Court, Gray's-inn, Middlesex, and occasionally at same time of the White Hart, Barnes, Surrey, previously and for four months having no fixed residence, but staying for a short time at the Glocester Coffeehouse Oxford-street, the Garrick's Head, Bow-street, both in Middlesex,the Three Tuns, Jewr-street, Aldgate, London, and other hotels, during the whole time clerk in the Trinity House, Tower-Hill London, from the year 1850 to 1853 of Hayes, Middlesex.

Re: Gladys M. (Butterfield) Minnick

marindaboykin — 2009-08-11 14:31:58Z

I have some information on Edith Sharbonda and Jesse Butterfild. she married Jesse on 1915 in Minnesota, son of John Butterfield and Laura Ingalls. He was born on 10-24-1888 in Alexandria, Douglas County, MN. and died Oct. 12-1964 in Sarona, Washburn County. WI.
she had 5 daughters and 7 sons.
If you would like more information please let me know.
marindaboykin@yahoo.com

Re: john boddy butterfield and family

smp39 — 2009-08-06 09:33:01Z

thanks, louise, thats brilliant to find out more. i'd hit a total brick wall on the butterfields and temporarily abanded them. my gran was jbb's gt-gt-granddaughter. hope we can keep in touch if either of us finds any more
best wishes
sarah

Re: George W. Butterfield

lois314 — 2009-07-14 19:48:22Z

Do you still have the photo of George W. Butterfield?

Re: Thomas Alva Butterfield

lois314 — 2009-07-14 19:42:02Z

Thomas Alva Butterfield was my great Uncle. And you are
right - he and wife Kelcy migrated to IA from KS

Re: Butterfields

yoyo4233 — 2009-03-17 17:42:00Z

John (Overland Stage's) father was Daniel Butterfield, who md. Catherine Ebert. John md.Malinda Harriet Baker. They had son's Daniel, who was a general during the Civil War and fought for the North - Daniel Adams Butterfield, md. first Julia E. Brown - no children, md. 2nd Julia Loriland (Safford) James - she had two sons, who also fought in the war, and both died in same, General Daniel had no children of his own. John had 2 other sons, Theodore Faxton Butterfield and John Jay Butterfield. Now, John Jay Butterfield, was the first driver on the newly opened Overland State. I show he died in Utica, NY, though Mar. 1909. I don't have names of his children, perhaps one or more, if he had children, lived in TX, though you say Andrew's father lived in TX and fought in the war for the South - I hope I got that right - my printer is down, so couldn't copy your email - I'm thinking that Daniel and John Jay Butterfield, could have been the uncle's you're talking about.I have quite a bit of info on John (OVS) Butterfield, but I have never been able to fo further than his Children, 4 were female. There were also brothers, George Clinton Butterfield, no info on him other than that he was a child of John and Melinda, and another son Charles Ebert Butterfield, b: 5 May 1836 in Utica, NY m. Mary Baldy, I have no date of death.
I give you this info, in case you want to pursue this line to see if you can come up with info on your Andrew. John (OVS) appears to have had only one brother, Daniel, Jr. who died at age 4.

Re: Butterfields

yoyo4233 — 2009-03-13 16:16:44Z

I have an Andrew whose father is Jeremiah and one whose father was John. Are you thinking that his uncle or gr. uncle was John Butterfield (Overland Stage?) I found no Nancy for mother on the 2 Andrews I have - and this is my own list, as well as another researcher's who has a very large amount of research and one whom I trust.

Re: Butterfields

yoyo4233 — 2009-03-09 18:25:59Z

There are a lot of John Butterfields, but maybe the mother's name (Nancy A.??) will give a clue. I'll check my files, and get back to you, though I'm not too encouraged I'll find them.

Re: Butterfields

yoyo4233 — 2009-03-04 18:55:14Z

Can you give me more information, such as father and mother's names - siblings names, and where born?? I don't have any Andrew's that I know of in my line, but I have info on quite a few lines, and perhaps, with this info, and date of birth and death if you have them I could find something for you.
Margaret Rollins

William Henry Harrrison Butterfield

rvcole1 — 2009-06-22 22:16:35Z

William Henry Harrison Butterfield was born 25 Feb 1849 in Columbus, Franklin Co., Ohio. His death record indicates his father was a John Butterfield. His mother was Mary Maria Kimball (Williams). His father either died or else John and Mary Maria divorced. By 1850 (Census) she was living with her parents in Rock Island Co., Illinois. W.H.H. Butterfield married Sarah Jane Waddell on 3 October 1874 in Johnson Co., Nebraska. He died 19 August 1905 in Pasco, Franklin Co., Washington. I would like to contact relatives and also would like a scanned photograph of William Henry Harrison Butterfield and/or any of his family. His half-sister, Frances Elizabeth Eberhart, is my connection. Thank you.

BUTTERFIELD John H and Ouida

t42MountOlivet — 2009-07-18 16:40:46Z

BUTTERFIELD John H and Ouida

I photographed this gravestone in the Mount Olivet Cemetery, Fort Worth, Tarrant Co., Texas. Feel free to use this picture for your personal records. This is one of the 204,880 cemetery photos free at http://teafor2.com .

If you know more about this person please reply here instead of contacting me because this is most likely not my family.

Re: About Billy Butterfield

atokaddod98 — 2009-02-08 05:55:36Z

I've been doing family history stuff for 30 years now. Dated Judith (Judi) Butterfield (Deborahs' sister) in 77-78. See;
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940DE0D81F3AF...
Deborah and Phil Curtis moved to Hilham, TN area. Judi might be still living near Palm Beach. If you need more help let me know.

BUTTERFIELD Ella B 1862-1943

t42CrownHill — 2009-02-11 23:36:46Z

BUTTERFIELD Ella B 1862-1943

I photographed this gravestone in the Crown Hill Memorial Cemetery, Dallas, Dallas Co., Texas. Feel free to use this picture for your personal records. This is one of the 201,088 cemetery photos free at http://teafor2.com .

If you know more about this person please reply here,instead of contacting me because this is most likely not my family.

Re: Benjamin Butterfield b.1547 - Susan Ann Wood b.1548

kah0026 — 2009-06-19 17:16:42Z

i think we share the same lines of butterfields, there are many.

butterfieldlibby tree
kah0026@aol.com

Re: Benjamin Butterfield b.1547 - Susan Ann Wood b.1548

kah0026 — 2009-06-19 17:16:40Z

i think we share the same lines of butterfields, there are many.

butterfieldlibby tree
kah0026@aol.com

Re: ELSIE BUTTERFIELD HOLMES

scooter68148 — 2009-05-12 20:42:08Z

elsie was my great grandmother, jack hoyle was my great grandfather, keighley castle was our ancestoral home,most of the family adorn the walls there.my grandmother is joan doreen dolby nee hoyle, my grandfather, jack owned a dentist's on the corner of the boulevard hessle road in hull, this buiding is still there and has become some offices,it was in this building that my mother jaqueline was born, my grandmother owned a house a couple of doors away sadly the house is no longer there.i could tell you everything about the family once i have spoken to my grandmother, i would like to know your husbands name and whom his parents were as this would be more helpful. many thanks sally

Jas Christian Butterfield

gawarren08 — 2009-02-06 17:57:19Z

One more looking to connect with a Jas Christian Butterfield born in Germany abt 1824. I do know he was in 1860 Census in Rutland, Wisconsin. His wife's name was Emily abt 1825 and had four children; Jas, George A, Emily and Milton. Could use any help or suggestions. Thanks

Re: Butterfields

lwilliamsclw — 2009-02-19 00:30:45Z

Andrew Butterfield was my GG Grandfather. I am trying to find info on him and his ancesters.

Re: Butterfields

lwilliamsclw — 2009-03-06 13:37:02Z

His Uncle or great uncle was John Butterfield. His mother was Nancy A(?) and I know she was born in 1820 and died in in 1893. His dad was John or Jonothon and I think he died in the 1870's. That's about it. Thanks,

Re: Butterfields

lwilliamsclw — 2009-03-13 18:23:37Z

His Uncle or Gr Uncle is John Butterfield of the overland stage. I know his father lived in Texas when the Civil War broke out and he fought for the South. He had 2(?) brothers that may have been from Utica, NY and fought for the North. I know his mom was Nancy A but I have'nt found a maiden name yet.

Re: Benjamin Butterfield b.1547 - Susan Ann Wood b.1548

bruce_butterfield — 2009-05-25 17:52:19Z

Hi Robert.

My name is bruce butterfield from evergreen colorado. Di you get any more in ben butterfioeld. I only have the butterfields back to thomas butterfield 1572

Re: Anyone that may have photos of Clarinda Butterfield (CRAM)

mrblohm — 2009-02-09 08:01:52Z

Hello Shannon,

first I thank you for your informations.
Is it possible to buy the book "Blohm family Memories"?
If possible I even like to have copies of the graves of Blohm/Butterfield.
Most of my Blohm-ancestors lived in or close to Watsonville.

So long

Fokke Blohm

Re: Anyone that may have photos of Clarinda Butterfield (CRAM)

ancestree2008 — 2009-02-08 22:59:31Z

Did you take photos of the graves? I would love to have a copy. my email addy is paula.cram@gmail.com

AD Butterfield - Zimmerman, Drackley and Haeberle - news articles

amy26305 — 2009-07-21 12:13:28Z

I am a descendant of AD Butterfield. I have many original family obits and news articles for the Butterfield, Zimmerman, Drackley and Haeberle families (dating as far back as the late 1800s.) I would love to share this info with those interested. Also would love to hear from those who have info to share!

William Butterfield

fishboys_1 — 2009-03-13 07:21:35Z

william and mary daly marry ? and have a child named mary butterfield in 1870.County Meath Ireland is the area i think. William is born in the year of 1839,mary 1843. The only other info. i have is william is dead around June 1909.were? anyone got info about this family line.make my mum happy

Mary Buterfield

fishboys_1 — 2009-03-13 06:30:21Z

Lived in County Meath in 1911, at the age of 70.She is the head of the house.Patrick is 30 son.Mary Doyle who is the nieces aged 12 come from Dublin City. George is a nephew aged 6 he is also from Dublin City.Does anyone have more info on these people.

Re: Benjamin Butterfield b.1547 - Susan Ann Wood b.1548

SBelillo — 2009-05-19 03:08:54Z

Hello,

Has this information been sourced and do you have the documentaion... Would love to know...

Thank you for your time,

Shannon Butterfield-Belillo

Re: Anyone that may have photos of Clarinda Butterfield (CRAM)

SBelillo — 2009-02-08 17:28:37Z

Hello,

Sorry for the long delay in the reply! I found the graves of my Butterfield decendents and the Blohm's, they are located in Watsonville California, 15 minutes from were I live. The Blohm family wrote a book regarding their family and the Butterfield's , there are many wonderful photo's and vast amount's of information. The Historical Society of Pajaro has the book and wonderful information.

The books title is Blohm Family Memories
Written by: Lotsa Relatives( someones sense of humor)
Edited by: Floyd Luther.

I hope this helps,

Shannon Butterfield-Belillo

Re: Anyone that may have photos of Clarinda Butterfield (CRAM)

SBelillo — 2009-02-14 17:29:36Z

Hello,

I have yet to locate the book, the Historical Society in Watsonville has the only copy that I've seen. I'm still searching for a copy for myself,

The photo's are on Ancestry, just request to view my tree and you will be able to view them and attach them to your tree.

Sincerly,

Shannon Butterfield-Belillo

Re: Richard (Dick) Butterfield Rhode Island

bonniescholten — 2009-01-30 03:03:16Z

Hi Mr. Butterfield,
I am wondering if you have ever worked at Flora Dale resort?

Re: Thomas Alva Butterfield

mbillbuck — 2009-07-14 21:10:52Z

Since I posted that message I have since been able to find out more information, including a photo of Joseph Butterfield during the Civil War. Joseph was Thomas Alva's father. Ruth Butterfield Buckingham was my husband, Rich's, grandmother and her sister Julia (Toodie) is still alive. If you would like to share information, I would love to visit with you. You can e-mail me at rmbuck@huntel.net. Thanks

Re: john boddy butterfield and family

louisewilson182 — 2009-08-06 09:25:38Z

I am a descendant of Charles & Caroline Butterfield's daughter Frances Emily Butterfield, who married Thomas Dawson Boulton in 1845. Frances was a younger sister of the John Henry Butterfield you mention. I have much information about Frances, John and their older sister Maria.

Despite an exhaustive search through the parish records at the London Metropolitan Archives, I have been unable to find the family of origin of Caroline Hughes Stevens, who married Charles Butterfield by licence at St Bride's Fleet St on 1 January 1820. Census returns place her birth at Southwark in 1795, but my trail runs cold at that point. Caroline Hughes Stevens was an educated woman, so her family of origin is bound to be interesting.

Likewise, I have not been able to find the baptism of Frances Emily Butterfield. Census records indicate she was born at St George's Middlesex about 1826. Charles Butterfield's address around this time was 20 Upper Third St, Bloomsbury Square, in the parish of St George's Bloomsbury.

John Boddy Butterfield was baptised at St John of Wapping on 15 August 1770, his parents being William and Ann Butterfield. Rather confusingly, JBB seemed to have a cousin (?) of the same name, who was baptised and buried in 1768 at St John of Wapping as a son of John and Elizabeth Butterfield. The surviving John Boddy Butterfield was an employee of HM Customs.

John Boddy Butterfield and Sarah Smallwood had two sons, Charles Butterfield (baptised 7 December 1795 at St Mary Lambeth) and Henry Butterfield (baptised 25 January 1802 at St Mary Lambeth). Both boys grew up to lead interesting lives. Charles Butterfield had a long career as an accountant with the Trinity House and Rev Henry Butterfield, amongst other roles, was a minor canon of St George's Chapel at Windsor for almost forty years. Henry was married to Charlotte Wigney of Brighton.

Charles and Henry had a sister, Sophia Butterfield, who was baptised on 27 August 1798 at St Mary Lambeth but I don't know what happened to her. There may have been other siblings.

The eldest child of Charles and Caroline Butterfield, Maria Louisa Butterfield, married the lawyer Charles Blake at St Mary Lambeth in 1840. I have a copy of Maria's marriage certificate, where a witness signature appeared to be G E C Butterfield, but who this was I do not know. I have much information about the Blakes.

If anyone can add to my current store of knowledge, it would be very much appreciated. I am writing a book on the very interesting Boulton family, which had a significant involvement from the 1770s with the 'Golden Cross' coaching inn at Charing Cross, and the mail coach contracts of the 1780s and 1790s. As outlined above, a later generation of the Boulton family connects to the Butterfield and Stevens families and I would like to have the complete picture of these Boulton 'in-laws'. (Information about my other books is on the website www.louisewilson.com.au)

Best wishes, Louise Wilson

Re: Benjamin Butterfield b.1547 - Susan Ann Wood b.1548

robertkennedy142 — 2009-05-25 20:05:32Z

I have not worked on Butterfield line for a while now.
However,there are two opinions when you get to Thomas butterfield and lead to different directions.

visit me at my site Kennerley of Cheshire and check out what I have ,Bob

http://bob6k.tribalpages.com password word Kennerley and Kennerly for Butterfield Kennerley Tree.

We brought the book trouble daughters about susanna Hutchinson your greatgreat etc grandmother,daughter of Ann Marbury. My wife brother name is Bruce Butterfield
Enjoy.
Bob

Re: JOHN BUTTERFIELD FROM STAINES IN MIDDLESEX

amgine22 — 2009-03-04 17:38:45Z

Hi Andrew
I have masses of the information on the Butterfield family and details of John's family in Staines, Dysart (Kirkcaldy), Northallerton and the return to Dysart. John born in 1855 was one of 17, yes, seventeen children and I have the whole family tree. What is your connection with the Butterfields? My wife's mother (still alive at 96) is a Butterfield and John is her Great Uncle.
Let me know your interest at clark11@sky.com and I'll see what I can send you.

Abraham Butterfield of Lumbfoot, Haworth.

androo4519 — 2009-08-04 11:22:12Z

My g4 grandfather b.1800. He's on the 1851 census but not the 1841. 1851 census records him and sons John (my g3 grandfather b.1832 d.1860) and Anthony, both born in Yeadon according to 1851 census but living in Lumbfoot.
Really want to find out Abraham's wife/John and Anthony's mother. International Genealogical Index has nothing from the area. How do I get further back?