Careless - Family History & Genealogy Message Board

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

sccond — 2012-05-19 04:30:44Z

Hi - Just thought I'd fill you in on what I found as I received a few certificates today.
James Careless, b-1851 is in fact the son of Frances Carless on Meeting st; no father listed. So 1851 census with baby James and Fanny is correct.

Thomas is the son of Benjamin Careless and Emma Cartwright. They must have come to NJ after his birth and she must have died and Benjamin must have left him with Joseph and Ann to raise.

Also, I ordered death certificate for Fanny Cook; Oundle and I beleive it is my Fanny as her father is listed as Thomas, tailor and she was 5. All right info.

Just thought I'd fill you in.
Lisa

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

DarlastonDigger — 2012-05-02 01:50:34Z

Onions is pronounced as the vegetable........ By 99% of the population.

But in the odd case, where an Onions family member have "Bettered" themselves and climbed the social ladder by a couple of rungs up from the bottom, suddenly the name becomes OH Nigh Ons. Hope you can work out what I mean by splitting the word in this way.

Again I have Onions in my own family tree from the Tipton, Wednesbury and Darlaston areas. So far I can't see that Alfred fits in, but it's always possible.

My first connection is Edward/Edwin (Varies) Onions marrying Frances Hubbard 1877 Bilston but lived in Wednesbury and Darlaston. His father was also Edwin and mother Sarah Dicken married in West Bromwich but he was born in Tipton 1857

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

sccond — 2012-05-01 11:19:00Z

This is Isabella's mother. I've seen this and can only assume it is her.

I've been in contact with an ancestor of Isabella's sister Sarah. He lives in Manchester and is interested in all the NJ Careless's. he didn't know anyone had immigrated to NJ.

So thanks again for all your help. i never would have found James Onions?Carless. By the way, my parents and I were wondering how Onions is pronounced. Like the vegetable?

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

sccond — 2012-05-01 11:06:08Z

This Thomas is the son of Benjamin. This is why I thought he was Jospeh's son until I saw Thomas's death cert.

I assume Thomas came over iwth a wife a child, wife dies, and he cant' care for Thomas, so he leaves him with Joseph and Ann, and goes back to England.

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

sccond — 2012-05-01 11:03:39Z

I have not seen the "conrad" census. Born around 1860....Not sure. Will have to go back and check who was born around that time. Maybe someone mis-heard or mis-wrote tha name on the census?

And I did see Samuel in the directory a few times, but haven't placed his either. I'll see if I can find Conrad in the 1940, if not, back to Trenton to look for Death Cert. to look for parents!

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

sccond — 2012-05-01 10:58:24Z

I have a copy of the original from the NJ Arcives. She dies 3 weeks later. They had another child who also dies.

If my memory serves me right, I believe that James later names a daughter Florence.

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

DarlastonDigger — 2012-05-01 08:53:34Z

Sarah Carless sister of Benjamin

1851 HO107 Piece: 2027 Folio: 23 Page: 23
Wood Green, Wednesbury

PIERCY, James S 44 1807 Clerk To Edge Tool Manufacturer
Birmingham Warwickshire
PIERCY, Mary 39 1812 Handsworth Staffordshire
PIERCY, Mary J 14 1837 At Home Westbromwich
PIERCY, Martha 13 1838 Scholar Wednesbury
PIERCY, Fredrick J 11 1840 Scholar Wednesbury
BATES, Charles Lodger 31 1820 Goods Agent At Railway Co Liverpool Lancashire
CARLESS, Sarah 16 1835 House Servant Wednesbury

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

DarlastonDigger — 2012-05-01 07:44:39Z

Is this Thomas the son of Joseph and Ann or is he caring for Thomas son of Benjamin?

1870: New Jersey, United States
Joseph Carless
Estimated Birth Year: 1831
Age in 1870: 39y
Birthplace: England

Household Gender Age
Joseph Carless M 39y
Ann Carless F 37y
Thomas Carless M 3y

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

DarlastonDigger — 2012-05-01 07:32:11Z

Any idea who this one is ? ? ?

Conrad Carless
Event: Census
Event Date: 1930
Event Place: Paterson, Passaic, New Jersey
Gender: Male
Age: 70
Marital Status: Widowed
Race: White
Birthplace: England
Estimated Birth Year: 1860
Immigration Year:
Relationship to Head of Household:
Enumeration District Number: 0015
NARA Publication: T626, roll 1378
Film Number: 2341113

I don't think I've seen a Samuel before either ? ?

Samuel Carless
Event: Census 1885
Event Place: Paterson, Ward 03, Passaic, New Jersey
Gender: Male
Age Class: 20 to 60 years
Household Gender Age
Abraham Ferdon M
Fufas Ferdon F
Elizabeth Roe F
Samuel Carless M

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

DarlastonDigger — 2012-05-01 06:44:07Z

I found this on the IGI have you seen it before ?

Florence I. Carless
Birth: 29 JUL 1886 Paterson, Passaic, New Jersey
Father: Benj. Carless
Mother: Eliza Bramley
Source Information:
Batch No.: C005305

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

sccond — 2012-05-01 03:34:58Z

I was out of town visiting my parents in Virginia so i missed the last few messages. My aunt, who is older than my dad, was there and she said she remembered Isabella. She doesn't remember isabella ever talking about any relatives in America, but said she did go back and forth to England to visit more that once.

I will sit down tomorrow and go through all the NJ Carless's. I saw on one of the census's that Thomas was a Sheriff. I googled him and found a picutre and several articles! Thanks for your help!

Lisa

CARELESS/CARLESS birth and marriage lookups

sccond — 2012-04-29 15:38:57Z

Hi - I am wondering if anyone has access to parish records from around Wednesbury before i buy certificates! I see a marriage of Benjamin Carless and Emma Cartwright; A-M-J 1866-Wolverhampton. I am wondering who their parents are. and a birth of Thomas Carelss; O-N-D 1866; West Bromwich. I am wondering if he is their son.

Also, I am looking for a marraige of Benjamin Carless and Eliza Bromley; maybe around 1882. I can't see anything. I'm not sure if they get married in England or the US.

Thanks for any help,
Lisa

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

DarlastonDigger — 2012-04-29 06:05:07Z

If the marriage is correct then here's her baptism

SARAH WOOD
Christening: 31 MAY 1804 Saint Bartholomew, Wednesbury,
Father: JOSEPH WOOD
Mother: JANE

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

DarlastonDigger — 2012-04-29 05:57:20Z

JOHN CARLESS
Spouse: SARAH WOOD
Marriage: 18 MAY 1826 All Saints, West Bromwich,
Wit: James CASHMORE & Mary WIGGIN

I think this may be the marriage of the parents of Frances, Benjamin, Joseph, Isabella etc

I seem to remember that on one of the census entries there was someone living with them name Wood or am I getting confused?

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

DarlastonDigger — 2012-04-29 04:18:55Z

GRO references quote only the quarter they were registered in and as you had 6 weeks to register a birth it can get complicated.

A child born mid Dec didn't have to be registered until end of January. So a some one born 14 Dec 1867 may well appear in the BMD lists as March Quarter 1868.

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

sccond — 2012-04-29 04:15:44Z

I also see that Henry Greenough in the US census is married to James daughter Nellie. He was born in the US, but parents from england. I'll have a look for tthem.

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

DarlastonDigger — 2012-04-29 04:14:28Z

World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918
Name: Cornelius Carless
City: Paterson
County: Passaic
State: New Jersey
Birthplace: New Jersey
Birth Date: 27 Jun 1888
Race: Caucasian (White)
FHL Roll Number: 1754429
DraftBoard: 1

U.S. World War II Draft Registration Cards, 1942
Name: Cornelius Benjamin Carless
Birth Date: 27 Jun 1888
Birth Place: Paterson, New Jersey
Residence: Passaic, New Jersey
Race: White

Draft cards say 1888 but this says 1887
New Jersey, Births and Christenings Index, 1660-1931
Name: Carless
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 27 Jun 1887
Birth Place: Paterson, Passaic, New Jersey
Father's Name: James Carless
Father's Age: 38
Father's Birth Place: England
Mother's Name: Ellen Spittle
Mother's Age: 31
Mother's Birth Place: England
FHL Film Number: 494209

1930 United States Federal Census
Name: Cornelius B Carless
Birth Year: abt 1891
Birthplace: New Jersey
Race: White
Home in 1930: Paterson, Passaic, New Jersey
Marital Status: Married
Relation to Head of House: Head
Spouse's Name: May D Carless
Father's Birthplace: England
Mother's Birthplace: England
Household Members: Name Age
Cornelius B Carless 39
May D Carless 37

U.S. World War II Draft Registration Cards, 1942
Name: Alfred Albert Carless
Birth Date: 29 Jul 1885
Birth Place: Paterson, New Jersey
Residence: Paterson, New Jersey
Race: White

New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
Name: Alfred A Carless
Arrival Date: 1 Sep 1954
Birth Location: New Jersey
Port of Departure: New York, New York
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Santa Paula

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

sccond — 2012-04-29 04:03:23Z

Are the birth dates in the BMD birth dates or registration dates?

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

sccond — 2012-04-29 03:59:06Z

I just saw that myself. I looked for their marriage last week at the NJ archives, but next time i'll look again for something in 1880. but you're right; they may not have married.

I wonder why he decided to use Careless instead of Onion...

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

DarlastonDigger — 2012-04-29 03:39:52Z

Name: Jas Carless
Arrival Date: 30 Jul 1880
Birth Year: abt 1851
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/Race/Nationality: English
Place of Origin: England
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England and Queenstown, Ireland
Destination: United States of America
Port of Arrival: New York
Port Arrival State: New York
Port Arrival Country: United States
Ship Name: Celtic

Ellen Spittle is listed on the line below....... So they must have married in America, if at all.

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

sccond — 2012-04-29 03:16:24Z

Right. He doesn't show up in the directories until 1882-3 so I was not sure that 1880 date was exactly right. And I haven't found him in 1880 in the US although i need to go back and re-check.

thanks! Lisa

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

DarlastonDigger — 2012-04-29 02:59:27Z

The reason James isn't with Frances in 1881 is because on the U.S. census 1910 1920 and 1930 he says he moved there 1880

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

DarlastonDigger — 2012-04-29 02:47:00Z

Orphan Boy Inn was the name of the Public House that Afred ran. In 1871 they were at The Hen and Chickens Public House. So either they renamed it or moved to a larger Public House

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

sccond — 2012-04-29 02:38:07Z

In 1881 they are still on foster St. Except James. Not sure where he is yet. On the 1881 census under address it says Orphan Boy Inn. Do you know what that means for that address?
Lisa

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

sccond — 2012-04-29 02:32:07Z

In 1861 I found Alfred and Fanny Onions and children, including James in Wednesbury again. So obviously James considered him his father, whether or not he was.

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

sccond — 2012-04-29 02:24:49Z

I found Alfred and Frances Onions in 1871 in Wednesbury on Foster St. James is there; last name Onions! And son Corneius! All children using Onions as last name. So James and cornelius must have come over around the same time. And that expains that James and ellen had a son Cornelius also.

I'll look now for Onions in NJ.

Lisa

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

sccond — 2012-04-29 01:52:45Z

I'm not sure if this means anything, but I found an Alfred Onions, in 1851, living with a William Smith family on Portway rd. He is the brother in law to William. I wonder if this Smith family is related to my Smith family of Meeting st. anyway, so Alfred is living on the same street as the Careless's in 1851 although Frances was living somewhere else with the baby. Was she sent to the other side of town to have the baby?

I was looking at the census's in NJ for James Carless and see that in 1900 & 1910 the census states he wife is Helen; clearly. But James' death cert says Ellen and two of their children's birth records on familysearch say Ellen. I looked and don't see a marriage for James and ellen. Did you see anthing? I think they could have married in England or NJ. I didn't see anything in NJ.

Lisa

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

sccond — 2012-04-28 23:51:18Z

So are you saying that if I get the certificate for James' birth, it won't list a father as Frances was not married??? And so even thoough he (or someone) lists Alfred as his father, that may or my not be true....Rats...

I'll look to see if I see them in NJ..

Lisa

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

DarlastonDigger — 2012-04-28 23:38:45Z

Frances Carlis/Carless born c1829 was at home in 1841 with parents John and Sarah Carless.
In 1851 she was a lodger at the Cresswell family home in Meeting Street. On this census she is listed as unmarried but having a 7 month old son James. As she was unmarried he would be registered as Carless even if she know who the father was. It was illegal to name a father on the certificate if the couple were not married. Later you could do so if the father was present at the registration and he agreed to be named. Some couples lived as man and wife and told the registrar they were married even when they weren't.

I don't have any idea who his father was. But 6 years after his birth a Frances Careless married Alfred Onions in Dudley. So it's only speculation as to whether or not Alfred was his father. Unless you find this couple in Passiac at some point in time ! !

I haven't found Frances after 1851 as Carless or Onions. Didn't find James in Wednesbury after 1851 either, but he must have been around long enough to strike up an acquaintance with Ellen Spittle. Could these have moved to New Jersey early on like Frances' brother Joseph?

Might be worth checking out all the people in Passiac who were born in England.

Holland is a name I've come across while researching Wednesbury so entirely possible that there may be a connection there too.

Re: CARELESS/CARLESS birth and marriage lookups, Staffordshire

sccond — 2012-04-28 13:43:46Z

Looking at directories in Paterson, NJ, I see Joseph first in 1863. And he is in NJ until he dies. The first year I see Benjamin is 1868. If he marries Emma Cartwirght, that would fit as I know his son Thomas is in NJ by the 1870 census. And the passenger list for Emma Careless and son is in 1868. He doesnt' seem to stay though. I don't think he is in NJ in 1870. He does't appear in the directory until 1883, the year after he married Eliza Bramley in England. And it seems he then stays in NJ.
I am ordering Thomas's birth cert (his death cert states his father is Benjamin but mother is blank) to see his mother.

Lisa

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

DarlastonDigger — 2012-04-28 13:42:37Z

This 1900 census states that Ellen Spittle's parents emigrated in 1888

Edward Spittle
Age: 65
Birth Date: Oct 1834
Birthplace: England
Home in 1900: Paterson Ward 2, Passaic, New Jersey
[Passaic]
Race: White
Gender: Male
Immigration Year: 1888
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Anna Spittle
Marriage Year: 1856
Years Married: 44
Father's Birthplace: England
Mother's Birthplace: England
Household Members: Name Age
Edward Spittle 65
Anna Spittle 63
Sarah Spittle 24

Source Citation: Year: 1900; Census Place: Paterson Ward 2, Passaic, New Jersey; Roll: 991; Page: 14A; Enumeration District: 115;

Edward in 1841 with his parents

John Spittle
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1801
Gender: Male
Where born: Staffordshire, England

Civil parish: Wednesbury
Hundred: South Offlow
County/Island: Staffordshire

Registration district: West Bromwich
Sub-registration district: Wednesbury
Piece: 984
Book: 5
Folio: 42
Page Number: 14

Church Hill Wednesbury
John Spittle 40
Hannah Spittle 40
Henry Spittle 15
Ann Spittle 15
William Spittle 11
Edward Spittle 6
Hellen Spittle 4
Daniel Spittle 2

In 1851 John and Hannah were in Aston...... so another reason way Benjamin might have been there

John Spittle
Age: 51
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1800
Spouse's Name: Mary Spittle
Where born: Wednesbury, Staffordshire, England

Civil parish: Aston
Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew
Registration district: Aston
Sub-registration district: Duddeston

Household schedule number: 185
Piece: 2061
Folio: 275
Page Number: 46

John Spittle 51
Mary Spittle 52
Ellen Spittle 14
Daniel Spittle 12
Elizabeth Devey 38

Henry born c 1826 loving at the Blue Ball was Edward's brother. Seems that both Henry and Edward named a daughter Ellen after their own sister

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

DarlastonDigger — 2012-04-28 13:41:56Z

1871 RG10; Piece: 577; Folio: 21; Page: 35;
Registration district: Poplar
Sub-registration district: Bow

13 Vernon Road

William J H Weal 31 Printer Compositor Birmingham
Harriett Weal 32 Walsall Staffordshire
Sydney G Weal 2 Months Bow Middlesex
Ellen Spittle 14 Visitor Wednesbury Staffordshire

There was also a couple of lodgers both born Aston Warwickshire

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

DarlastonDigger — 2012-04-28 13:40:54Z

Could this be the marriage of James' mother

West Midlands Marriage indexes for the years: 1856
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
CARELESS Frances ONIONS Alfred Dudley, St Edmund Dudley Register Office 201/002/415

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

DarlastonDigger — 2012-04-28 13:39:39Z

Going back to one of last years posts. We can see Frances/Fanny Carlis listed with the family and so she is Isaac's and Benjamin's sister

1841 HO107 Piece: 984 Book/Folio: 3/30 Page: 24
Address: Portway Road, Wednesbury

CARLIS, John 39 1802 Puddler Staffordshire
CARLIS, Sarah 35 1806 Staffordshire
CARLIS, Richd 14 1827 Puddler Staffordshire
CARLIS, Francis 12 1829 Staffordshire
CARLIS, Joseph 10 1831 Staffordshire
CARLIS, Thos 10 1831 Staffordshire
CARLIS, Drusilla 8 1833 Staffordshire
CARLIS, Sarah 6 1835 Staffordshire
CARLIS, Mary 4 1837 Staffordshire
CARLIS, John 2 1839 Staffordshire
CARLIS, Catherine 7 months 1841 Staffordshire

Here's the family in 1851 your Isabella appears to have been named after an aunt looking at this entry

1851 HO107 Piece: 2027 Folio: 192 Page: 37
Address: Portway Road, Wednesbury

CARELESS, John 48 1803 Pudler Wednesbury
CARELESS, Sarah 45 1806 Wednesbury
CARELESS, Joseph 20 1831 Pudler Wednesbury
CARELESS, Drusilla 18 1833 Wednesbury
CARELESS, Mary 14 1837 Wednesbury
CARELESS, John 12 1839 Wednesbury
CARELESS, Isabella 8 1843 Wednesbury
CARELESS, Benjamin 6 1845 Wednesbury
CARELESS, Jemima 2 1849 Wednesbury
CARELESS, Sarah Grand Daughter 2 1849 Wednesbury(Daughter of Richard who later married Elisha Page)

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

DarlastonDigger — 2012-04-28 13:38:58Z

There is a James Careless born 1851 in Wednesbury

West Midlands Birth indexes for the years: 1851
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Reference
CARELESS James Wednesbury Sandwell Register Office WED/15/154

It looks like he could well be related he was with his mother in Meeting Street Wednesbury on the 1851 census.

1851 HO107 Piece: 2027 Folio: 395 Page: 35
Meeting Street, Wednesbury Staffordshire

CRESWELL, James Widower 50 1801 Lock Filer Wednesbury Staffordshire
CRESWELL, James 25 1826 Iron Pudler Wednesbury Staffordshire
CRESWELL, Mary 27 1824 Dudley Worcestershire
CARLES, Fany Lodger Unmarried 22 1829 Dressmaker Wednesbury Staffordshire
CARLES, James 1 Month 1851 Wednesbury Staffordshire

I'd say it's safe to assume that fany is short for Frances. But this means it's his father's name that is unknown not his mother's maiden name.

Isaac and Sarah named a daughter Fanny in 1863 so maybe james' mother was Isaac's sister.

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

DarlastonDigger — 2012-04-28 13:31:55Z

The marriage to Eliza Bramley is feasibly your Benjamin. He's the right age and states that his father is name John.

Benjamin Carless
Groom's Birth Date: 1846
Groom's Age: 36
Bride's Name: Eliza Bramley
Bride's Birth Date: 1847
Bride's Age: 35
Marriage Date: 10 Apr 1882
Marriage Place: St. Peter & St. Paul, Aston, Warwick,
Groom's Father's Name: John Carless
Bride's Father's Name: Thomas Bramley
Groom's Marital Status: Widowed
Bride's Marital Status: Single
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M00711-7

Aston was full of engineering companies and opportunities so a good place for Benjamin to find work. Plus it's closer to Wednesbury than Nottingham is . Aston has since been incorporated into Birmingham.

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

sccond — 2012-04-28 13:29:53Z

Wow. I am going to spend time going thru all this. But first obvious question - I'm wondering about James as he goes by Carless. Are you suggesting that his mother was unmarried so he used her maiden name? So the assumption regardig his death cert. was that since he went by Carless that his father must have been Carless? But if he knew his father was Alfred Onion, why would he have gone by Carless not Oiion?

Interestly, I probably mentioned in very early post that I had a letter that was written to my grandfather from an investigatior in England and that was were the connection to Wednesbury first was mentioned. The letter mentioned William Smith and Careless..But also mentions the names Onion and Holland as possible connections!!

Ok, off to sort through it all. ANd as of now I don't know the Greenbough connection - Yet!!

As always, thanks! Lisa

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

DarlastonDigger — 2012-04-28 13:25:40Z

There are only 3 Benjamin Carless that I could find in 1861.
The one in Wolverhampton, Yours in Wednesbury(West Brom District) and the last one in Berkshire down south.

CARELESS, Benjamin 1840 21 Wolverhampton Staffordshire
CARELESS, Benjamin 1845 16 West Bromwich Staffordshire
CARLES, Benjaman 1843 18 Cookham Berkshire

The 1851 only lists two Benjamin Carless yours and the one in Wolverhampton.

CARELESS, Benjamin 1840 11 M Wolverhampton Staffordshire
CARELESS, Benjamin 1845 6 M West Bromwich Staffordshire

There is a possible death of Elizabeth Carless in 1879 but happened to the son Albert he wasn't with his father in 1881

West Midlands Death indexes for the years: 1879
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Reference
CARELESS Elizabeth Sedgley Dudley Register Office SEG/072/80

I just searched 1881 for Albert Careless born 1869 no other criteria and you'll never guess what turned up.......... The Kingswinford Benjamin is not yours afterall

1881 RG11 Piece: 2947 Folio: 84 Page: 8
13, Brighton Rd, Kings Norton Worcestershire

KARLEESE, Benjamin 34 1847 Clerk To Colliery Co(Secretary Kingswinford Staffordshire
KARLEESE, Elizabeth 29 1852 Nk Shropshire
KARLEESE, Albert Edmund 11 1870 Scholar Amblecote Staffordshire
KARLEESE, Henrietta Jane 9 1872 Scholar Amblecote Staffordshire
KARLEESE, Anne Florence 7 1874 Scholar Bham Warwickshire
GROUCOTT, Ester Ann 21 1860 General Servant Domestic West Bromwich Staffordshire

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

DarlastonDigger — 2012-04-28 13:24:16Z

Yes I remember the family and yes Benjamin was an engine fitter according to the 1861 census. Did we ever find him in 1871?

1861 RG09 Piece: 2036 Folio: 84 Page: 22
Address: Foster Street, Wednesbury

CARELESS, John 50 1811 Watchman In Ironworks Wednesbury
CARELESS, Joseph 30 1831 Iron Puddler Wednesbury
CARELESS, John 22 1839 Iron Puddler Wednesbury
CARELESS, Isabella 18 1843 Milliner Wednesbury
CARELESS, Benjamin 16 1845 Engine Fitter Wednesbury
CARELESS, Jane Ann (Jemima?) 13 1848 General Servant Wednesbury
KNIGHT, Henry Lodger 13 1848 Iron Puddler Oldbury Worcestershire

On this 1881 entry he is listed as a widower so he married after 1861 but it could have been anywhere in Staffordshire or Nottinghamshire or anywhere else for that matter if he was moving around for work purposes.

1881 RG11 Piece: 3359 Folio: 118 Page: 22
15, Kid St, St Mary Nottingham Nottinghamshire

LOVE, Samuel 41 1840 Engine Planner (E & M) Nottingham
LOVE, Sarah Ann 39 1842 Nottingham
LOVE, Mary A 18 1863 Cigar Maker Nottingham
LOVE, Samuel 5 1876 Nottingham
POTTS, John Lodger 39 1842 Engine Fitter Stockton Norfolk
POTTS, Thomas Lodger 30 1851 Iron Moulder Liverpool Lancashire
CARLESS, Benjamin Lodger Widower 36 1845 Engine Fitter Wednesbury

I did find this Benjamin in 1871 but he's not born in Wednesbury at least not according to this

1871 RG10 Piece: 3021 Folio: 44 Page: 20
Reg. District: Stourbridge

Brettell Lane, Amblecote Worcestershire

CARLESS, Benjamin 24 1847 Manager of Iron Works Kingswinford Staffordshire
CARLESS, Elizabeth 29 1842 Dawley Shropshire
CARLESS, Albert E 1 1870 Kingswinford Staffordshire
PYE, Mary A Servant 16 1855 Wednesbury Staffordshire
It looks more like Page on the image rather than Pye

Could it be that the enumerator transposed the places of birth for Benjamin and Mary A the servant. Either way there's a definite Wednesbury link.

I'll see if I can find this Benjamin on the 1861..... If there is one of the right age in Kingswinford then he's not the right one, as yours was with family in Wednesbury then.

Here's the marriage for the one in Kingswinford

West Midlands Marriage indexes for the years: 1869
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
CARLESS Benjamin and WILSON Elizabeth Stourbridge Register Office Dudley Register Office 001/005/87

There are two Albert Carless births but the first one most matches the child above

West Midlands Birth indexes for the years: 1869
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Reference
CARLESS Albert E Kingswinford Dudley Register Office KIN/084/69
CARLESS Albert E Stourbridge (STO) Dudley Register Office STO/054/250

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

DarlastonDigger — 2012-04-28 05:21:14Z

There just happens to an Ellen Spittle living in Meeting Street in 1861

1861 RG09 Piece: 2035 Folio: 57 Page: 3
Meeting Street, Wednesbury

SPITTLE, Edward 26 1835 Coal Smith Wednesbury Staffordshire
SPITTLE, Hannah 24 1837 Wednesbury Staffordshire
SPITTLE, Ellen 4 1857 Wednesbury Staffordshire
SPITTLE, Sarah Ann 2 1859 Wednesbury Staffordshire

OR

1861 RG09 Piece: 2033 Folio: 22 Page: 37

The Blue Ball, Earps Lane, Wednesbury

SPITTLE, Henry 37 1824 Gas Burner Maker Wednesbury Staffordshire
SPITTLE, Rebecca 36 1825 Retail Brewer Sedgley Staffordshire
SPITTLE, Ellen 14 1847 Scholar Wednesbury Staffordshire
WHETTON, Sarah Niece 15 1846 General Servant Wednesbury Staffordshire
GOODAIRE, Mary A 20 1841 House Maid Tipton Staffordshire

If you check this out on those Local History sites I sent you, you'll find that the Blue Ball still exists

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

DarlastonDigger — 2012-04-28 04:36:41Z

1920 Census

James Carless
Residence: , Passaic, New Jersey
Estimated Birth Year: 1850
Age: 70
Birthplace: England
Relationship to Head of Household: Self
Marital Status: Widowed
Film Number: 1821064
Digital Folder Number: 4313365
Image Number: 00797
Sheet Number: 4
Household Gender Age
James Carless M 70y
Child Sarah J Carless F 39y
Alfred A Carless M 34y
Child Florence Carless F 24y
Henry Greenough M 29y
Child Nellie Greenough F 29y

Do you know how the Greenhough couple are related to James?
The reason I ask is because Greenhough is also a Wednesbury name. I even have some in my own tree.

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

DarlastonDigger — 2012-04-28 03:35:21Z

Don't know if James Carless is related yet but Spittle is a good Wednesbury name. Search any census year and you will find plenty,

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

DarlastonDigger — 2012-04-28 03:33:42Z

I thought I'd found his entry into America, this one is a fitter but his wife is name Cath

Name: Benj Corless
Arrival Date: 14 Nov 1882
Birth Year: abt 1844
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/Race/Nationality: English
Place of Origin: England
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England and Queenstown, Ireland
Destination: United States of America
Port of Arrival: New York
Port Arrival State: New York
Port Arrival Country: United States
Ship Name: Alaska

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

sccond — 2012-04-28 03:15:38Z

Here is another piece - there is a James Carless that shows up in NJ around the same time as Benjamin. Over the years he stays off and on at address's with the other Carless's. He marries Ellen Spittle. His birth date is listed as Feb 11, 1849 on his death cert. It lists his parents as Alfred Carless. Under mother's maiden name is says "Frances (Unknown)". I don't know whether that means her first or last name is Frances.

I looked but didn't see anything that fit. Just wondering if James is some relation or not. Also a Cornelius shows up in the early 1880's for a brief time. And James names one of his children Cornelius later. Another Carless relative??

cheers, Lisa

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

sccond — 2012-04-28 02:51:45Z

I know this is the right marriage for my Benjamin as her name, Eliza Bromley, is on a birth certificate for Florence Isabella Carless in 1886 in NJ. They had two children, but none lived.

thanks for the info on Aston. I didn't know why he would have been there.

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

sccond — 2012-04-28 02:45:54Z

I believe this Thomas is the son of Benjamin and someone who dies somwhere, at some point.

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

sccond — 2012-04-28 02:44:42Z

Oh my gosh...I can't believe the spelling of Carless

Re: Careless/Carless birth and marriage lookups

DarlastonDigger — 2012-04-28 01:07:11Z

It seems there definitely was a Thomas Careless born in Wednesbury in 1866

West Midlands Birth indexes for the years: 1866
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Reference

CARELESS Thomas Wednesbury Sandwell Register Office WED/43/185

Re: CARELESS/CARLESS birth and marriage lookups, Staffordshire

sccond — 2012-04-27 12:23:14Z

Found it under Carolus. It could be him, but he should be born in Wednesbury. I'll look if there is another Benjamin born around the same time.

Re: CARELESS/CARLESS birth and marriage lookups, Staffordshire

DarlastonDigger — 2012-04-27 12:22:55Z

Are you sure that Emma married Benjamin?
FreeBMD lists in alphabetical order the names of the four people involved in 2 marriages on the same register page. Emma could have married Edward Taylor

Marriages Jun 1866
Carless Benjamin Wolverhampton 6b 690
Cartwright Emma Wolverhampton 6b 690
TAYLOR Edward Wolverhampton 6b 690
Wright Elizabeth B Wolverhampton 6b 690

This 1871 census entry suggests that Benjamin did in deed marry Elizabeth Wright

1871 RG10 Piece: 2939 Folio: 159 Page: 18

Duke Street, Wolverhampton

CARELESS, Benjamin 28 1843 Brass Founder Wolverhampton
CARELESS, Elizabeth 28 1843 Wellington Shropshire
CARELESS, Walter 8 1863 Wolverhampton
CARELESS, Elizabeth 4 1867 Wellington Shropshire
CARELESS, Mary A 0 1871 Wolverhampton
HADLEY, Phebe Niece 7 1864 Wolverhampton