Erselius - Family History & Genealogy Message Board

Paul Erselius

blodeuwedd2001 — 2011-01-05 05:11:23Z

I am looking for relatives of Paul Erselius, who was born before 1900, and spent some time in Great Britain, after 1915. There may be cousins in St Louis.

Re: erselius

blodeuwedd2001 — 2010-12-01 19:56:55Z

Thanks for that information about the Pearsons of the Cock and Ball/Bell pub. It is great to have the full picture of the father and brother of Lily Pearson. Lily herself didn't have any children that we know about. She must have been very adaptable, living as she did in Germany with her husband Richard Paul Erselius for some time before they emigrated to USA.

Re: erselius

CraigPearson12345 — 2010-11-30 10:58:50Z

Hi,

Reading through the posts you have I saw the story about Alfred Jesse Pearson working as the landlord of the Cock and Bell. This was formally the Cock and Ball. Prior to that it was called The Chequers. Now it is known as The Chantry and is maintained I think by the church.

here is the details of his occupation taken from deadpubs website.

Cock & Bell

25/05/1899/Alfred Jesse Pearson/../../../Petty Sessions Victuallers Records

1901/Alfred J. Pearson/Licensed Victualler/50/Upper Clapton, London/Census***
1901/Lily Pearson/Daughter, Assistant/24/Canonbury, London/Census***
1901/Alfred J. Pearson/Son, Assistant/22/Canonbury, London/Census***
1901/James A. Lacey/Servant, Potman/18/Clapham/Census***
1901/Ada B. Manning/General Servant Domestic/20/Canning Town, Essex/Census***

1902/Alfred J. Pearson/../../../Kelly's

1906/Alfred J. Pearson/../../../Kelly's

1908/Alfred J. Pearson/../../../Kelly's

Note that his daughter and son work there also. Alfred James PEARSON (the son) was my great grandfather.

He was born we think in 1873 on this reference Jun 1879 Pancras 1b113.

He became ill later on in life and died in Jun 1963 Romford 5a 388 (these are birth death references from freeBDM)

When he became ill he went to live with Esther Pearson his daughter.

He married Esther Elizabeth Peacock in 1912. He was 34 years old at the time. She was 30. She was a bit prolific in the baby department and had already given birth to John William Peacock (my grandfather). His (we think twin) Martha Peacock on 14 September 1911 and perhaps a few others. Then she married Alfred James Pearson in a registry office in Romford on 19th December 1912. I have a copy of the marriage certficate which I can email you if you wish. I will put my email at the end.

Witnesses to the marriage were a one Martha Peacock (esthers mother) and Elizabeth Peacock (her sister). Esther lived at 5 Richmond Rd, Romford Essex, England and her mother Martha lived at the same road but at number 10. Alfred James Pearson gives his address as 60 Southwark Street, London. My father remembers him well (being ill at his daughter Esthers house, very ill). He remembers being told about his exploits in the Cock and Bell pub when he was young. Alfred and Esther peacock had the following children - Richard Pearson, Nellie Rose Pearson, my grandfather John William Peacock and Martha Peacock, and Cissy Pearson. The reason the two Peacocks are not listed as his genetically is that Esther gave birth to them in 1911. She did not marry Alfred until over a year later. 19 December 1912. It would be unlikely I would have thought, though possible, that he is their actual father. On my grandfathers birth certificate it has nothing but a pen line through fathers name and occupation. Later Cissy and the others were born. Cissy we can find no trace of what so ever. Richard married a woman called Eva and they had two children who are traceable today though Dick as he was known and Eva I can find no trace of. Ester M Pearson went on to marry on reference 4a 754 in March quarter 1935. She is fully traceable. And subsequent husbands and children are traceable and verified by my father from his memory.
Nellie went on to marry a William A Palmer or Bill as he was known. And they are fully traceable too. 4a1118 and had two children. My grandfather, born John William Peacock but thought Pearson was to find out his names was not Pearson in his 50's. He applied for a passport and discovered he was not a Pearson at all. Sadly Esther his mother who died in 1933 aged 50 was not around to ask. Neither was his possible step father Alfred James Pearson. So it has remained a mystery. John WIlliam Peacock/Pearson joined the Royal Pioneer Corp as part of his national service. He went from location to location until in 1940 he trained as a Chef in the Pioneer Corp and then he came out of the Army all together. He married a Louisa Nutley. My nan. They had two Children, my father John Charles Alfred Pearson and my fathers sister Maureen. He was to die in 1967. He had been taken away n holiday to Italy by my mother and father. He was taken very ill in Italy and after a short while was taken into hospital in Italy. A decision was made that he should be flown home under an emergency ticket. They had gone to Italy from London via train. A trip my parents would make several times even after I was born. Sadly though this time they had to return by train while grandad was flown back. When they arrived in the UK a few days later, he had already died in hospital in the UK. He was diabetic and his death was linked to this though I do not know the exact circumstances.

Back to Alfred Jesse Pearson - while he was the landlord of the Cock and Bell, prior to this he was also the landlord of The Lamb pub. Which if memory serves is on the oposite side of the street to the C&B. More details about the pub can be found on these sites:

http://deadpubs.co.uk/EssexPubs/Romford/cockbell.shtml lots of info here. and here is the absract from that site about Alfred Jesse Pearson when he was the landlord of the Lamb

Lamb Pub

25/05/1899/Alfred Jesse Pearson/../../../Petty Sessions Victuallers Records

I hope that helps and gives a spurt of excitement as often happens to me when someone finds something specific for me. Happy Christmas (soon) and if you want a copy of Alfred James Pearsons marriage certificate to Ester Elizabeth Peacock and John William Peacocks Birth certificate you can email me at foldingstar@hotmail.com and in case this site blocks email addresses, its foldingstar at hot mail (all one word) dot com.

Best wishes and bright blessings,

Craig.

Re: erselius

KeithErselius — 2010-07-15 05:23:03Z

Wow, awesome pictures. I always wondered what the J R stood for, good to know. I found the Scutt information i found on ancestry which i now realize was from you! Sorry I don't bring anything new to the table. Maybe in the future.

Re: erselius

blodeuwedd2001 — 2010-07-14 09:31:47Z

Yes, Cock and Ball is a scary name. I did a search, found lots of Cock and Bull pub names but not Ball (though that seems clear in census takers handwriting in 1901) Now I think the name is Cock and BELL. There is a picture of the very pub on this website:
http://deadpubs.co.uk/EssexPubs/Romford/cockbell.shtml

Lily is one of the English nicknames for Elizabeth-Eliza. And she was connected to Richard Paul.
I am not positive which Charles Scutt was the father of Harriet. Scutt is sometimes miswritten as Scott on the census.
Thomas Charles John Richard Erselius 1897-1981 had one child, Thomas Charles F, who died this year.

Re: erselius

KeithErselius — 2010-07-14 04:28:10Z

So this "Lily" is the same as Eliza? and the Richard you are referring to is Richard Paul, Correct? I found that Harriet Ann Scutt (1859-1942) had a father named Charles (1812 Storrington - 1887 Sussex)and mother Harriet Shoesmith. I have found many Cock and Bull's but never a Cock and Ball (only fetish sites)...yikes.

Do you know how all the "Thomas Charles Erselius'" fit together? From what I can gather Thomas Charles J.R. (1897-1891) and Julia M. Chapman had Thomas Charles F (1920-?) married to Rose M. Bradley. Does this sound right?

Re: erselius

blodeuwedd2001 — 2010-07-13 08:55:59Z

I found out about the second wife by looking her up on the census of 1901. These are my notes: In 1901, Lily Pearson, age 24, single, was working in the bar of the Cock and Ball (not Bull), 15 Market Place,Romford, Essex. Her father, Alfred J Pearson, age 50, was the householder and a licensed victualler (ie, a pub landlord). Younger brother Alfred, age 22, was also working in the bar, and there were also an 18 yr old potman and a general servant, a 20 yr old woman. Lily and young Alfred said they were born in Canonbury; the father's birthplace was Upper Clapton.
At that date, Richard was still living with his first wife Harriet Scutt at 4 Linden St, Romford, Essex. When he left Harriet is uncertain, but in 1911, he and Lily said they had been married for 10 years. Though I can't find a marriage record. Lily's USA naturalization record gives her father's name.
Free BMD is a great site, in some ways more useful than the same data on Ancestry.

Re: erselius

KeithErselius — 2010-07-13 00:33:36Z

Hey, Just wanted to share this site in case you had not seen it yet. Just out of curiosity how did you hear about the story about the barmaid from the Cock and Bull?

England & Wales, Free BMD Death Index: 1837-1915 Record

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/

Re: erselius

KeithErselius — 2010-06-18 16:15:36Z

Oh, wow. Good to know.

Re: erselius

blodeuwedd2001 — 2010-06-18 12:10:40Z

Just a quick reply, but I'll be in touch by email. I don't think I made it clear that there were two Erselius men, both born in Germany, both called Richard, though the younger was Richard Paul. Both came to England and lived in or near London, and both were basically gardeners. The older Richard died in England, but the younger ran off with the barmaid from the Cock and Ball, first back to Germany, then to Connecticut, followed by Pennsylvania. His widow died in Boston in 1948, but I don't know when Richard Paul Erselius died.

Re: erselius

KeithErselius — 2010-06-18 01:16:22Z

Hmm you have given me a good deal to chew on. i was always confused about the British and the German Richard (Paul) and thought thy might be the same. It appears they are not.

As for the Erselius name, I have been working hard on that side. I have always heard that it was Aurelius (like that of Italian Royalty) married with a Northern European Ersel. I now believe the Ersel part to be true as there is a town in the Netherlands I believe. I found an interesting German post below (see address) that talks about the second half of the name meaning tailor.

This would fit in with the fact that in the 1860's there are address records for Erselius' Possibly Emil? who worked in Leather. This was the trade of Charles August Erselius in 1949 with the same job description. He was a Riemer Master. I think they meant Riemen, which is a belt/lace/strap. This was in Leipzig.

The oldest name i could find was Otto Erselius who died in the Franco Prussian war 1886, although the war was from 1870-71.

As for PA death records, Richard and Eliza should have received Social Security papers when the came through Ellis Island in 1923. I think Eliza (Elisa) died in 1951 and all i know about Richard paul was he was born in 1868. I really am not sure how they are related to Herman or Georg Erselius although I would not be surprised if they are Uncles or cousins.

If you want to email me at KeithErselius@gmail.com, you are more than welcome to. Keep me in the loop.

- Keith Erselius

Here is the German web forum. I used google translator.
http://www.heraldik-wappen.de/viewtopic.php?p=46702&sid=...

Re: erselius

blodeuwedd2001 — 2010-06-17 07:44:59Z

I'm a friend of Lynn's. We are trying to figure out if there is any connection between the Erselius family in England and the Erselius family in St Louis.
I have found out that Richard Paul Erselius was born in Leipzig about 1865. His father was Charles August Louis Erselius--Karl August Ludwig, I suppose. He married Harriet Scutt and then Eliza Pearson, who went by many versions of her first name. Later Richard and Eliza went to the States, and I lose track of Richard Paul after 1934 in PA. Any ideas about how to find a death in PA at that time?

There was a relative also in England, Richard Erselius, 1850-1905, who married Ann McIntosh. He was born in Leipzig too. Uncle? Cousin? Both men were in the nursery/florist trade.

What is the origin of your Erselius family? Do you see any link at all?

Re: erselius

KeithErselius — 2010-06-17 04:49:49Z

Hey I may have some info on Richard Paul Erselius. I think he was married to Anne Mcintosh and had Thomas Charles marred to Harriet or possibly Elise J. they had Thomas Charles Jr. He had Lynn J. Erselius Petithugenin.

Are you an Erselius what information have you found?