Thank you very much I really do appreciate any help. I just get so frustrated. The Illinois state archives are on line and free to everyone. Alot of people married and died in this state passing through to the west. So when I discovered some of the Gay family married here and who they were following their trail was pretty simple. It is frustrating to see the dates of our ancestors juggled to fit. My mothers family has been a nightmare anyway. I started the Kirkham side when I was 15 and am 54 now. I spent alot of money and time just to get frustrated. lol I am sure we all have. At one point I have told my mother they are all from Mars. What I have found is John Gays father is James but have found that a William had a son James as well as a brother, both near the same age. I will watch for you line as I do more research on mine. Again, Thank you.