Kirsten - Family History & Genealogy Message Board

Re: Johann Friedrich Kirst

kirjan1 — 2009-02-20 13:03:55Z

Hi!

My name is Jan Frederik Jacobus Kirsten. My dad has the same name and my grandfather is Johan Frederik Jacobus Kirsten.

We have been living in the Cape Town region for all our lives. Is this a coincidence or is there a relation?

Re: Johann Friedrich Kirst

jdkirsten — 2009-01-23 20:20:25Z

Info on KIRSTEN Coat of arms(attached along with his signature)from 'Die Groot Afrikaanse Familienaam Boek'

Betekenis: Afleiding van die voornaam Christian.
Stamvader: Johan(n) Frederik (Friedrich) Kirsten, van Eberstedt in Sakse-Weimar (Duitsland). Soldaat 1740; later sersant en vaandrig. Hy het in 1761 Poshouer van Valsbaai geword; sedert 1775 "negotie-overdrager". Oorl. 24.4.1784. Trou 14.6.1750 met Johanna Franck (8 kinders). Hy was 'n ryk man, met o.m. ses huise in Kaapstad en die plaas "Imhoff's Gift" naby Kommetjie.

Wapen: Charles Bell vermeld in sy manuskrip (afb. 42, 89) die wapen: Gedeel: I "op 'n oop see in die vrye lug onder 'n blou hemel 'n regopgeplaaste kolom van metaal, in die middel waarvan 'n swaard en 'n sleutel mekaar kruis"; II in goud vier rooi dwarsbalke. Helmteken: tussen twee goue en groen omrande vlae 'n uitkomende man, geklee in blou, in die regterhand 'n na, benede gerigte swaard en in die linkerhand 'n omhoog gerigte sleutel, die baard na bo. Dekklede: rooi en goud. Die familie Kirsten is - sover bekend -die enigste familie uit die Hollandse tyd wat in die besit is van 'n oorspronklike wapenbrief, met keiserlike volmag verleen deur die Paltsgraaf August Ubrecht Friebel aan: "Herrn Johann Friedrich Kirst, in holländischen Diensten auf dem Vorgebürge der Guten Hoffnung, 1767".

Could you possibly send me a copy of your archive document?

Re: Albert Kirsten

Emnas — 2008-09-23 04:37:52Z

My great-great-grandfather was born in 1834 in Saxony. His name was Johann Heinrich Kirsten. His son's name was Albert Kirsten. (His father's name was also Johan Heinrich.)

Re: Johann Friedrich Kirst

Emnas — 2008-09-21 21:31:40Z

I have posted our Kirsten Y chromosome on FamilyTreeDNA.com. If you test your Y chromosome, you can check if it matches mine. My family records go back to 1525 in Saxony, Germany.

Re: Karl Kirsten

Emnas — 2008-09-21 21:29:57Z

I have posted our Kirsten Y chromosome on FamilyTreeDNA.com. If you test your Y chromosome, you can check if it matches mine. My family records go back to 1525 in Saxony, Germany.

Re: KIRSTEN in Grumbach, Thuringia, Germany

audianaq41 — 2008-07-23 23:31:22Z

That is very interesting. Do you have more info on KIRSTEN and him being an agent for the land co? I have never seen that. I knew that Christopher Nohre and Joh Henry KIRSTEN both got land in Chester Co PA which covered some acerage! KIRSTEN's deed was translated by Pastorius, Penn's trusty friend! He and Nohr traded and sold much of it, and Joh. Henry wound up in Oley Berks Co PA.

I knew about the Carolina's and proprietor Archdale, but that proposed area fell thru at that time, didn't it?

I had read about it in Knittle's book:

In the book 'Early Eighteenth Century Palantine Emigration' by Dr Walter A. Knittle, pub 1937, there is mention of an interesting collection of papers now preserved in the Library of Congress, known as the Archdale papers. These contain correspondence of John Archdale one of the proprietors of Carolina. As early as 1705, Archdale was arranging for a settlement in Carolina by what was called the High German Company of Thuringia. A German correspondent writing from Thuringia mentioned reading an earlier book by Richard Bloome entitled 'English America'. This book had been translated into German and published in Leipzig in 1697. Four deputies were sent to London with the intention of visiting some English province in America. They met and talked with a Mr. Telner who seemed to be a respresentative of the proprietors in Carolina. They returned to Germany and any plan was never completed. However, there were two proposals by the High German Company of Thurengia suggesting to the Carolina proprietors how to advertise 'with the greatest appeal' in the Germanies. Passage was suggested to be paid by the Carolina proprietors and in return to be repaid by years of service for the company in Carolina for the first ship load of passengers. Then, if they safely made it to Carolina, any 'poor man' would only need to get to London and then pay nothing for transport to Carolina.

I had no idea that my KIRSTEN was actually an agent for the Thuringia Land Co. Where can I find more info about this?
Also, there was a Casper CARSTENS with him in Germantown PA. It appears they may have come to PA together, but I cannot find more info on Casper. Have you seen his name in Langensalza?

In the Pennsylvania Archives, I had found mention of my Joh Henry KERST (as John KUIRSON) and Christopher NOHRE:

"John KUIRSON, woolen draper and citizen of LangereSalza, Thurengia, Germany, appeared before the Pennsylvania Commissioners 9/19/1705 and 'produced a deed, translated and certified by Daniel Pastorius, dated 8/5/1704, from Frederic de Redegoldt, Colonel and Essay Master Generall of the Province of Pensilv'a and Terr's annexed, in America (so runs ye Deed), for 750 a's of Land, Part of 10,000 acres purchased of the Prop'ry, as is said, in England, by the said Redegoldt, to be taken up between the Rivers Susq'a and Delaw'e, Rent Free for 7 years." Another person - Christopher Nohre, had a 'like deed' for 250 acres which quantities they desire Warrants to Take up. Ord'd Warrants and that before any Confirmat'n, Redegoldt's Deeds or Copies of them be produced, Warrant to Dan'l Powell and Is. Taylor both. (Pennsylvania Archives, Minute Book "G", meeting of the Commissioners in Philadelphia - Powell and Taylor were surveyors for Penn.

Further.....from another source:
In the book 'Coventry, the Skool-kill District', pub 2003 by Estelle Cremers and Pam Shenk, dec'd :
"The 10,000 acres noted in KURSTEN's purchase was a tract of land laid out by Isaac Taylor, surveyor, for a group of Penn investors and included 5500 acres in Phila Co (now Montgomery) and 5320 acres in Chester Co, on the south side of the river. The 1703 purchasors of John Henry KURSTEN and Lawrence Christopher NOHR show that KURSTEN bought out NOHR in 1710, producing a 1000 acre block of land. Kursten sold his first 750 acres plus 10 acres from the NOHR tract to John Jacob FULLWEILER in 1711 for the 'residue of 1000 years', and he kept 240 acres for himself.
In 1713 he sold the 240 acres to Henry BUCKWALTZ, and in 1714 after selling his last land in Coventry, he is found in Oley (Berks Co PA)on a branch of the Manatawny creek as a miller.
Caspar Carstens.....brother? uncle? Caspar was listed as being in Germantown in 1709, with John Henry Kersten, so they apparently landed, took their oath, and moved to Germantown.
FULLWEILER kept his 760 acres of land and his widow, Barbara, who remarried Martin MALIN, sold it to Jacob BUCKHOLTZ, son of Henry (one of the Krefeld group in Germantown), for the residue of 600 years. Jacob BUCKHOLTZ sold/conveyed 240 acres of it, which was part of the original NOHR land, to Ulrich RINEHART. Then in 1736 he sold 163 acres to Anthony TUNIS who later bought another 60 acres to add to it. Then TUNIS sold the tract of 223 to Nicholas KAISER. Somewhere in that period and on part of the land was Henry PARKER, for whom Parker Ford was named in Chester Co."

Thanks for your info.

Diana in Alabama

Re: KIRSTEN in Grumbach, Thuringia, Germany

MielkeAndreas — 2008-07-14 11:07:01Z

Kirsten/Kersten was an agent for the Thuringian Land Company from Langensalza (Thueringen) that secretly intended to settle some hundred families in Carolina. The English counterpart was the erstwhile Carolina proprietor John Archdale; the preliminary correspondence is extant in Dresden. This Thuringian Conspiracy (as I like to call it) was discovered by the Saxon envoy (Carl Kirchner) in London who reported it back home to Dresden; only Kirsten and his fellow agent Nohr are known as having made it to Pennsylvania. Unfortunate for them, the man who sold them their Pennsylvania land, Col. Redegeld, appears to have been a conman, albeit one in the service of William Penn.

PS. Avoid the term "Prussia" and "Prussian" as geographic terms; Brandenburg-Prussian territories constantly changed and the name never referred to a precise geograpic area. [Historically, the -- extinct-- Prussians were a Slavic tribe located in what is now Poland.]

Re: Norborne Mo Kirsten's

Emnas — 2008-07-08 05:27:48Z

My Kirsten ancestors lived about 5 miles from Altenburg, Germany in Altmoerbitz, Germany from 1525 to 1639. From 1670 to 1794, they lived in Frohburg, about 8 miles from Altenburg. Do you have any ancestors named Christian Kirsten born in 1671, 1702, or 1747?

Re: KIRSTEN in Grumbach, Thuringia, Germany

audianaq41 — 2008-03-03 12:54:43Z

Hi Diane.....

A Draper dealt with cloth. I found this definition in a directory of old occupations:
"DRAPER - Dealer in fabrics and sewing goods - in use today. From the French "drap-de-Berry", a woollen cloth coming from Berry in France"

So I presume a woolen draper dealt with sheep and made fabric from their hair?

Another definition says it is a dealer in dry goods.

My KERST did have sheep on his farmland in Berks Co, but he also built a grist mill, and made the first fan to clean corn....which was shown in the inventory of his estate.

My ancestor left Thurengia, and came to PA by 1705. His occupation was what was shown when he presented a deed to the Pennsylvania Commissioners in Philadelphia in 9/1705 to secure land.

I have not seen your KREBs name, but possibly they could have known each other there.

Diana in AL

Re: KIRSTEN in Grumbach, Thuringia, Germany

dianerichey76 — 2008-03-03 05:18:31Z

Hi Diana,

I too have ancestors from Thuringia and wonder how you have been able to successfully research so many generations back in time? My second question is about Johann Henrich KIRSTEN/KERSTEN b 1674. You state he was a woolen draper from Langensalza. Several generations of my KREBS family were silk weavers in Langensalza. Do you know what a woolen draper did? Perhaps our two ancestors knew each other.

My great grandparents were Gustave Elise MENTHE, b. 1838 in Berlin, and Simon Freidrick KREBS, b. 1819 in Langensalza to Caspar F. KREBS b. abt. 1778 in Langensalza and Barbara Christiane von THILO who died in 1840. Caspar's father was Christian F. KREBS b. abt. 1750 in Langensalza. Family tradition reports that Barbara was an opera singer.

Hope to hear from you soon.
Diane

KIRSTEN in Grumbach, Thuringia, Germany

audianaq41 — 2007-05-21 12:12:44Z

My ancestor was Johann Henrich KIRSTEN/KERSTEN b 1674 who came to Pennsylvania c1705. He was twice married 1)Martha Katharina Tilesius in 1696 at St Bonifaccie in Grumbach, Thuringia, Germany. She died 1701. He then remarried Anna Margaretha FISCHER in 1703 in Grumbach. They had 4 children - 2 boys(Henry and John) and 2 daughters, but I don't know if any were born before they departed for PA, or after arriving in PA. He was a woolen draper from Langensalza, Thuringia as stated when he arrived in PA. The surname was shortened to KERST in later generations.

His father was Andreas Martin KIRSTIN of Grumbach, Thuringia who m Margaretha Justina GUTBIER. He had a sister Gustine KIRSTEN 1693-1740 who married a Peter TENNEMAN.

His grandfather was Johan Burkard KIRSTEN a pastor at St Walpurgis, GrossGottern who died 1672.
His grgrandfather was George KIRSTEN who d 1636 in GrossGottern m Katharina (unknown)and was pastor also at St Walpurgis from 1598-his death.

Johan Henry KERSTEN died abt 3/1725 in Oley, Berks Co PA. His widow Margaret died in 1765 in Exeter, Berks Co PA.

I descend from their son John KERST who m Eva Rosina RITTER in Berks Co PA.

Does anyone have KIRSTEN ancestors from this former Prussian area?

I found that Grumbach is a village in Prussia, district Erfurt [which was part of the Province of
Saxony], county Langensalza, pop. (1871) 260.

Diana in Pelham Alabama

Kirsten

2006-04-27 09:20:53Z

Gerhard Kirsten, * 24. Apr. 1931, Sieglos (Oberhauner Str. 24)

Re: Kirsten's in Tanneberg, Saxony, Germany

2005-12-01 22:01:35Z

hi i live near malton north yorkshire in england
i too am descended from the biglin family my mother was eileen betty biglin born 1928 in sculcoates in hull her father was sidney rudston biglin born 1906 in sculcoates his father was walter earnest biglin your henry johns brother i believe my walter was born in hessle in 1865 when peter and betsy ran the admiral hawke public house. i have read about you before on message boards but did not have any info before anyway have you ever thought of looking into the rudston side of the family .it is looking very interesting as i believe we are somehow connected to the rudstons of hayton if so there is a pathway to the royal family. yours sincerely eileen jobling.

Albert Kirsten

JMcAnally5258 — 2005-07-23 15:54:41Z

My great-grandfather Albert KirstEn appears on the 1860 and 1870 census in New Haven, Connecticut. He was b.abt.1833 in Saxony. Any connection to any one? His children were Charles, Minnie, Florence, Albert and Daisy.

Kirsten

SonjaTilbury — 2005-05-25 22:33:59Z

Looking for a CARL OR KARL KIRSTEN
Married a ROESSNER
both from Germany
He was a Doctor.

Kirsten's in Tanneberg, Saxony, Germany

2005-01-08 02:22:08Z

For those with Kirsten ancestors from Germany, let me suggest checking the village of Tanneberg in the Kingdom of Saxony - about 12 miles north of Chemnitz. There were at least five generations of Kirstens born in Tanneberg and many others in surrounding towns. In 1825, August Kirsten (b. 1803) left Tanneberg and settled in Glauchau where his ten children were born. His son, Edward Hermann Kirsten (1841-1917), immigrated to the US in 1869. For those who think their Kirsten ancestors originated in Tanneberg (or near by villages)in Saxony, let me suggest the book, "The Kirsten, Wissinger, Klein and Biglin Families: 1650-1997" by Edward Kirsten. It is available at the Family History Library, Library of Congress and most of the major genealogical libraries in the US. It should be available through interlibrary loan.

Re: Johann Friedrich Kirst

kengco — 2004-04-13 02:11:52Z

I have a Johann Friedrich Kirsten from Sundremda near Rudolstadt. I know Kirsten relatives went to South Africa.
Let me know more names if you have them.

Re: Kirsten/Toepfer

kengco — 2004-04-13 02:11:52Z

1 me
2 Carl
3 Carl
4 Adelbert (Adelbert/Elizabeth/Mina/Charles/August)
5 Karl (+ Elizabeth Kreissler)
6 Johanna Kirsten
7 plus 3 more generations from Weimar area

How about 1500 more Kirsten relatives?

JFK

2000-12-07 06:04:01Z

Hi, I came across a farmer in Paarl, Cape Town with the initials JFK.

I have just started to build my ancestor tree.

I will try and get more info for you

Regards Vernon

Johann Friedrich Kirst

2000-08-16 05:58:23Z

I can trace my ancestry back to Johann Friedrich. He was born in Eberstadt, Sachse Weimar, Germany c.1710 d. 24.4.1784 in Cape Town, South Africa.

JFK was granted a Coat of Arms in 1767 by August Lebrecht Friebel, "Imperial Palatinate Minister to his Imperial Roman Majesty and the Holy Roman Empire" or any according to a very tatty photocopy of an archive document I have.

Does anyone know anything further about JFK and possibly where I can get a picture/photo of the coat of arms ?

Anton Kirsten

2000-08-16 05:43:31Z

I can locate two Antons on my family tree but they were born in 1970 1974 respectively which mahes it unlikely they're anyone's grandparents

Edward Kirsten

2000-08-01 05:05:57Z

I found Edward's grave stone in the old Stempel Cemetery north of Norborne But could not makes the connection. Thanks for the info.

Norborne Mo Kirsten's

2000-07-31 07:37:35Z

My GGrandmother was Johanna Pauline Kirsten of Tilset, Germany b.1march1847 d.24jan.1912
in Norborne Mo.
m. 7 Oct.1873 to Adolph Julius Hannsz of Altenburg, Germany. Johanna had one bro. I know of here Robert b.13March1862 whose obit says he came here with his father,Edward, at age 27 made his home on the old Hannsz home place, 3 mile n. of Norborne. He Robert was a baker by trade. I never heard of any of the family mentioning another Kirsten in Norborne. Seems strange the same name in the small town of Norborne not being related some where.Johanna came here with her husband who came across the ocean to get her and bring here. He previously lost his 1st wife left his 8 children in wisc and went back to Germany and got Johanna. Don't know if this will help, but it's what I know now. Let me know

Karl Kirsten

2000-06-11 10:25:41Z

Looking for any information on Karl Kirsten b.1868 d.1921 lived in Norborne, MO.

Anton Kirsten

1999-12-30 21:42:16Z

I am looking for information on this person. He is supposed to have been the 2nd husband to my g-grandmother.

Re: Kirsten/Toepfer

2004-04-09 13:10:45Z

Paul,

I would like to find out more about you connection to the Kirsten/Toepfer family. I have come up against a road block.

Please email at lindahsmith@earthlink.net. Thank you.

I hope we can help each other in this.

Linda

Kirsten/Toepfer

lindahsmith — 2001-08-01 06:11:31Z

My mom Gail Toepfer is the daughter of Adelbert Toepfer and Ruth May Eldert. Adelbert is the son August Toepfer and Elizabeth Kirsten. Elizabeth Kirsten is the daughter of Carl F. Kirsten - b. February 16, 1822 in Germany - d. November 2, 1885 - married Elizabeth M. Kreisler - b. August 26, 1827 in Germany.

I have some information on children, dates and places but not a lot. I am at a cross road. Please help me. I would love to trade any and all information with anyone who would like to do the same.

Re: Johann Friedrich Kirst

edmundwright90 — 2003-01-29 20:06:48Z

I think we have a common ancestor in Johann Friedrich Kirst, as the data I have for an ancestor are Johann Friedrich Kirsten b.circa 1720 Eberstadt, Saxon-Weimer, d.24 Apr 1783 Cape, married on 14 Jun 1750 in Kapp de Goede H. to Johanna Catherina Franke b.circa 1725 Cape, chr. 1 Oct 1728 Cape Town, whose daughter, Gesina Kirsten, married Baron William Ferdinand Van Rheede Van Oudtshoorn
I do not have any information about the 1767 cost of arms.
Is your descent line through Gesina or another line?