Living - Family History & Genealogy Message Board

Re: One Scottish Living

CaroleNorthLiving — 2006-08-28 14:54:09Z

According to “The Surnames of Scotland; Their Origin, Meaning, and History by George F. Black PhD, published by the New York Public Library in 1946, the name Living has a most certainly Germanic origin.

“A Saxon (hence German) named Leving or Leuing appears to have settled in Scotland under David I (b. 1080, d.1153 and reigning around 1140). He certainly possessed a grant of the West Lothian lands.”

This root name exists in various forms in Pennsylvania among the German settlers there. This item goes on much longer, but that is the gist of it.

Carole Living

Re: One Scottish Living

CaroleNorthLiving — 2006-08-28 14:54:09Z

There is also a French "Leving", not uncommon in Quebec.

I believe that all these sondex Livings are related. Since you obviously have done a lot of research, the pronounciation is what is most important rather than the spelling. Also, with the high number "Living's" in Pennsylvania points to more common usage in Germanic countries. That is where it became a common Jewish name, like Loenstein. in any event, my husbands line and yours goes back 1000 years in Scotland, if not even earlier. Sounds like geneic drift.

I think my husband, Jim, would be interest in participating in a DNA tracing. I will get him to do it. Is there a cost? Have you had yours done and what did it show>

Carole

Re: One Scottish Living

CaroleNorthLiving — 2006-08-28 14:54:09Z

I will certainly check those web sites out.

The original Living (Henry Living) to come here actually went to Ottawa, Ontario,Canada. He was born in London, England. However, I do believe that they were from Scotland just because that is where the name originated in Britain.

Carole

Re: One Scottish Living

CaroleNorthLiving — 2006-08-28 14:54:09Z

Will we ever really know? I guess DNA is the place to start. You are certainly the scholar on the Living surname.

Again, where is your home?

Carole

Re: Living Surname

CaroleNorthLiving — 2006-08-28 14:54:09Z

I think Andrew has done a lot more scholarly research than I have so I think is more of an authority. Your version of the name more fits my father-in-laws version as he too believed that it originated in France. However, I think that is more because if the pronunciation than actual facts.

Pronunciation is more valid than spelling anyway. Our posts back and forth exhaust about all I know about the name. You should post a reply to Andrew too. He has a DNA study going.

Re: One Scottish Living

CaroleNorthLiving — 2006-08-28 14:54:09Z

Andrew: where do you live? Are you in the UK? We are in Michigan, USA..

C

Origin of the Living surname

CaroleNorthLiving — 2006-08-28 14:54:09Z

According to “The Surnames of Scotland; Their Origin, Meaning, and History by George F. Black PhD, published by the New York Public Library in 1946, the name Living has a most certainly Germanic origin.

“A Saxon (hence German) named Leving or Leuing appears to have settled in Scotland under David I (b. 1080, d.1153 and reigning around 1140). He certainly possessed a grant of the West Lothian lands.”

All the variations of the Living name such as Livingston, Livingstone (these 2 actually come from Living's Town) Livingood, etc., come from this root.

This root name exists in various forms in Pennsylvania among the German settlers there. This item goes on much longer, but that is the gist of it.

Carole Living

Re: Origin of the Living surname

CaroleNorthLiving — 2006-08-28 14:54:09Z

Andrew, yes, I think is either of those two also bearing in mind that my father-in-law believed it was from the french.

Interestingly, around New Orleans and adjacent Texas area, there are quite a few "Living"s. I would think this is from the french also as that is where the Arcadians from Quebec settled.

Re: Origin of the Living surname

CaroleNorthLiving — 2006-08-28 14:54:09Z

In Quebec it is spelled Leving.

Re: Origin of the Living surname

CaroleNorthLiving — 2006-08-28 14:54:09Z

Well, I guess it is all soundex anyway. How it sounds is what counts, not the spelling. In the 1600s Shakespear himself spelled his own name sevreral different ways.

Re: Origin of the Living surname

CaroleNorthLiving — 2006-08-28 14:54:09Z

My husband would be interested but it is rather costly and it would be only to resolve some curiosity so I don't think he will.

Re: Living Family

David_Living — 2005-12-03 22:04:05Z

Hi Jackie

Happy to hear from you. Please post some more details or send me an email to dliving@talk.co.nz. Look forward to hearing from you.

Regards

David Living

Re: Origin of the Living surname

andreweninge — 2005-11-21 21:50:17Z

Carole

If David's family joins too it will be more than just ancient genealogy, because you'll be able to compare to other Livings. (ie even if there is no obvious Scottish or Jewish indication, plain old genealogy will do alright!)

Regards
Andrew

Re: Origin of the Living surname

andreweninge — 2005-11-21 21:49:00Z

That's us. You'd be welcome. And you can be a double member with a more Levine related project if that makes sense, so as to work with two groups of genealogical colleagues at once.

More to the point, if we are getting Livings tested, you can compare to any others that join. Our project, having a wide range of surnames, if pretty much resigned to taking in a wide range!

Origin of the Living surname

2005-11-21 19:48:37Z

I presume Andrew you are involved in this project. www.familytreedna.com/public/livingston_maclea_dna
. Happy to provide a sample to the project if it is of interest.

Re: Origin of the Living surname

andreweninge — 2005-11-21 06:11:50Z

There is a reasonable chance that genetic genealogy - in other words getting a male Living to join a surname project - might show a DNA signature which is more likely Jewish or more likely Scottish. Although of course many DAN signatures are so widely shared that they would not help in this way.

Just a thought.

Regards
Andrew

Re: Origin of the Living surname

2005-11-20 20:08:49Z

Just comment on French connection. The family stories passed down is that we came to England from France at the time of the Huguenots. Our name was spelt pronounced "Levine" but I do not know the correct spelling. At some point it was then changed to Living.

Re: Origin of the Living surname

andreweninge — 2005-11-19 16:07:39Z

I guess anything starting with le or similar might be French, but then again what would then name mean? The wine? On the other hand it might be a French pronounciation of Levine (normally a Jewish name)?

Lev names all seem to have so many possible origins!

Andrew

Timothy Eric Wade-where is he?

2003-04-28 16:59:45Z

I have been searching for my son's father now for almost 10 years. My 10 year old, Patrick Stewart, would very much like to meet and possibly get to know his father. I think everything child should know both his parents if it is at all possible and he is deeply troubled about not having a Dad.
T. Eric Wade would likely be living with his mother, Deanna Wade, or his spouse, Becky?, in AZ, OR, or CA. If you think you have any info at all, please contact me.
Jwilsonl33@hotmail.com

Re: Living Family

2003-03-19 19:14:26Z

Hi Jason

According to the IGI Edwin was christened at St Andrew, Holborn on 16 May 1811, son of Richard and Mary. There is a marriage for Richard and Mary in 1809. Edwin and Eliza were living at 36 Loraine Road, London (?) in 1881 with children Edwin aged 38, Eliza aged 40, Frances aged 34 and Ann DUNCOMBE , daughter, aged 28.

I've spoken to Pauline, didn't realise she knew about you already!!

Re: Living Family

2003-03-19 08:45:24Z

Info which I have is that Charles' father was Edwin (no dates) who married Eliza (Goodwins) on 14.11.1833. Edwin had three siblings, Richard (emigrated to Australia 1852), Eliza and Stephen. Their father was Richard (d.1827).

If anyone can fill in the gaps - dates etc - I would be very interested.

Jason

Re: Living's from Wanstead, Essex.

2003-06-07 03:28:29Z

Hi Shannon

Sorry I have only just seen message. We have a definite link if you look at the information I have on my family tree. Have a look at the website I have put up.

http://www.schoolfirst.co.nz/josephliv/index.htm

I look forward to hearing from you.

David

Re: Edwin Living and Eliza Goodwins

2003-06-06 16:17:26Z

Thanks for the message Susan. This is not my direct family but cousins on my father's side so it all helps to build the tree.

Regards
Julie

Re: Living Family

2003-03-18 20:00:44Z

Hi David

No I'm sorry I can't help you here. Charles b. 1848 is the earliest I have at the moment. Jason and I are connected albeit very distantly.

Re: Living Family

2003-03-15 20:36:33Z

Hi Jason

A reply to a very old message! I have Charles LIVING b. 1848 married Clemetina GRIGG. Their son Charles b. 1877 married Amy CHALKLEY in 1902. Their children were Winnie, Kathleen, Charles, Leslie and Aileen. They were from Holborn and then moved out to West Ham, Essex (now London)

Any link? I have a few more details but hope to find more info. on Charles and Amy's family.

Re: Living Surname

2002-12-11 02:10:15Z

I have a William Living(s) born in the Bethnal Green area of London in 1870. Son of John and Charlotte Livings.
siblings, Maria, Alice, George, Primrose, and Eliza.
Drop me an email if you think that there may be a connection. Cheers, Sandie Beverige, Napier, NZ.

can u help?

2002-09-28 16:53:23Z

Hi every1! I'm trying to find an old friend from 1981. His name is Kevin McWilliams and he was born in 1967/8. He used to live in Middlesbrough. Can u help me find him please? Thankz for takin the time to read this message.

Re: Living Surname

2002-08-30 23:22:25Z

Hello. I'm fairly new to this too. What i have found out so far is that my 'Living' ancestors are from the Southampton and London areas of England. If you have any English links it would be good to know any dates/ names etc. If you have any American / New Zealand links there are other people on this board with them...but i don't have any links to them as yet.

Good Luck!

Re: Surname is "Living"

2002-08-24 05:52:47Z

we must be related as there are very few of us.just starting
on a family tree and do I need help!!!!!
I live in canada and would like to hear from you my email is
bsliving@island.net

Re: Living Surname

2002-08-24 05:38:26Z

new to this game,but I am intrested in searching my tree,
i'll take all the help I can get.

Living Family

jason_living — 2002-11-23 21:37:36Z

David

I noted your messages and the fact that you think that your family originates from Essex. My family are in Essex! Do you have any details of how long ago your family emigrated and any family names at that time?

Hope to hear from you.

Jason

Living's from Wanstead, Essex.

shannon1196 — 2002-12-28 17:49:46Z

I am searching for any information re, the "Living" surname in the Wanstead area of Essex. What little I have upto now is >

Ann Middleton Living, father Robert Living.
Did Robert marry a Middleton?

2nd October 1841, Ann Middleton Middleton (widow of Wanstead) married John Reay ( gent aged 63) at Wanstead parish church. They lived at Little Black/Bleak Hall, Wanstead.
Witnesses, Mary Living and Arthur Willis.

Obviously, Ann’s first marriage was to a Middleton, as was probably her fathers.
I am still trying to confirm who were the actual owners of Little Black/Bleak Hall at the time of Ann’s marriage to John Reay.

Does anyone have any information re, this family?

Surname project

andreweninge — 2005-11-19 09:32:11Z

Hi everyone

As mentioned before the Maclea/Livingston DNA project would welcome participants with the Living surname. Because the ancient roots of these and other related surnames is now unclear, we accept a wide range of surnames, with indeed the aim of clarifying which links might be real.

See http://users.skynet.be/lancaster/Discussion%20Maclea.htm

Regards
Andrew

Re: Origin of the Living surname

andreweninge — 2005-11-19 09:29:51Z

Hi Carole

I am aware of Black's entry, and other reference works. The name Living could be a spelling of known versions of either the Anglo Saxon name Leofwin or the Gaelic aristocratic name which is behind the surnames Slavin, Dunleavy, and Maclea.

Fact of the matter is that at least until the 19th century the Maclea clan *and* the Livingstons of the lowlands both believed the name (including the name of the town and the original man who named it) had Gaelic history. I have looked everywhere for any objective reason why this theory is now rejected and have found none.

The reasoning seems to be as follows: Living who founded Livingston was living in a time when English speakers and French speakers from the south were being granted land, therefore he must be Anglo Saxon. I believe this is possible, maybe even likely, but unproven.

Regards
Andrew

Re: Living Surname

andreweninge — 2005-08-22 05:41:52Z

Hello

I think there are certainly many cases where Living is a version of the the surname more commonly written as Levine. However there was an old Anglo Saxon name of this form also, and there may be Irish/Gaelic origins for some Livings. As you will have read, my grandmother's family used the spelling for a while, but are now Livingstones. From what I can tell, the common pronunciations of Livingstone or Livingston at the time when many Scots started learning to write was probably very variable. In the Gaelic speaking part of Scotland, it was traditional to consider the name Livingstone to be an English version of the name Dun Sleibhe which could be pronounced Dun Livin (compare to Livin's Tun). The most common modern theory is however that the Livingstons in English speaking Scotland, whose name is connected to the town Livingston, really have their name to think on an Anglo Saxon named Leofwin who founded a tun or town (both words being Anglo Saxon). While old records make it clear that the tun was really an Anglo Saxon word (in one place it is even translated into Latin as villa, might Gaelic speakers have felt Dun to be a reasonable translation?) the ethnicity of this man named Living will probably never be certain. Dun in Gaelic meant hill, but could also refer to fortified towns just like we see with the Germanic word "burg" (berg, bury, borough etc).

Regards
Andrew

Re: One Scottish Living

andreweninge — 2005-07-09 16:07:55Z

Dear Carole

I am Australian, but I live in Belgium.

Regards
Andrew

Re: One Scottish Living

andreweninge — 2005-07-09 07:08:26Z

What is your source for saying this? I think that it is an English name normally. The historians who say that Living of Livingston was an Anglo Saxon base this on the fact that the spelling Leving was common in England. It was derived from the older Leofwin. And many areas in England had important men of this name in the time of the domesday book. There are many more towns in England with Living components in them. Only one in Scotland.

Also, as I mentioned, the old parish registers which are preserved for Scotland are all on line and can be searched. The surname never appears until the 19th century. In England it appears in many regions - often regions where the name has been spotted amongst potentates in Anglo Saxon and "domesday" times. (But I think at least one of the ancient Livings, a missionary who was made a saint, had his name Anglicised from an Irish Gaelic name.)

The theory of Black and other modern historians is that the lowland Livingstons of Easter Scotland are also descended from such an Anglo Saxon Leofwin, while the story that there was a link to the Macleas is just a myth based upon the similar sound of names. What I have found however, is that this theory is actually not based upon any evidence any stronger the the similarity of names itself. So the question remains open.

Regards
Andrew

Re: One Scottish Living

andreweninge — 2005-07-09 06:57:55Z

I am an Australian, but I live in Belgium.

Regards
Andrew

Re: One Scottish Living

andreweninge — 2005-07-08 18:29:38Z

Hi Carole

Are you saying your husband's Livings were Scottish? That would be fascinating because I thought my Livings were pretty much the only ones apart from a few obvious immigrants.

My own Y DNA is Lancaster, and I coordinate the Lancaster surname DNA project. I also sponsored a male relative of my grandmother Livingstone and the results can be seen on the Maclea/Livingston project results page, in group F:
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/rlivingston1488/dna_table.htm

Also see:
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/livingston%5Fmaclea%5Fdn...
...which shows that Livings are invited. Pricing and ordering information is there.

And more concerning my group F and its Scottish relatives with other surnames is on a website I made:
http://users.skynet.be/lancaster/MacWho_main.htm

Regards
Andrew Lancaster

PS my DNA is Family 1 on this page: http://users.skynet.be/lancaster/Lancaster.htm

Re: One Scottish Living

andreweninge — 2005-07-08 16:59:58Z

Dear Carole

I know this quote, but thanks.

I've looked into your surname further since I wrote and I agree that the name Living was normally a form of the older name Leofwin which is as Anglo-Saxon as they come. And West Lothian certainly had Anglo Saxons. However, it seems very possible that the name sometimes has other sources.

For example, in my own family, which now only uses the spelling Livingstone, spellings such as Living and Leving have been seen, but probably only for half a generation. Before then it was apparently Levitch or Livadge - a form found only in Strathmore as far as I can see. (But the families in Strathmore also sometimes appear in the registers as Livingstones.) DNA tests seem to confirm however that this family really were Livingstones.

Just as another example, I found a Living in England in the 1881 census who is a Jew born in Russia - presumably his name would normally have been written as Levine?

So, if the old clan myths had anything to them, what sort of Gaelic name might Living have had (just supposing). It turns out that the old Gaelic name Dun Sleibhe had a dimunitive pronounced just the right way, and Dun Sleibhe is felt by some highland genealogists to be the original name which lent itself to the patronymic which became Maclea. Maclea is the old surname used by the "highland Livingstones".

...of course the above only points to what might be possible, but the DNA test put an interesting spin on things as it seems to confirm my families own understanding of their history. As it happens, our DNA signature was a rare case where we could point to an extremely small number of families even close to it, and all are probably Scottish.

I wonder if any Livings would be interested to do a DNA test. They would be welcome in the Maclea/Livingstone project, in order to take advantage of the discount. If anyone is interested please contact me and I'll put you on the track.

Regards
Andrew

One Scottish Living

andreweninge — 2005-05-17 13:27:47Z

My Livingstone relatives came from Scotland and believed that they were related to the highland clan of that name, also called the Maclea clan. DNA testing has made this pretty certain. But tracing the family tree is difficult because before the 19th century they used many different spellings. Amongst those is Living(e)/Leving(e). From what I can see, this is mainly an Irish name, with a strong south East English component? Perhaps just one ancestor just felt this spelling was a good one, as there was a military man living up the street in Edinburgh castle with this name. Apart from my ancestor I think there are native Scots in the old parish registers with this exact spelling. So I suppose there is no reason to assume that all Livings are related, but there is - for your information - a Livingstone DNA project on the internet and because Scottish and Irish surname history is all about name variants, they are very interested in accepting people with potentially related names. For one thing many of the clan legends speak of connections to Irish names.

Living Surname

David_Living — 2005-08-21 10:33:50Z

Have been reading yours and Andrew's comments on the origin of the Living surname. I live in New Zealand. My family comes from Newport, Essex aparently. One of the stories past down is that we orginated from France at the time of the Huguenots. The name at some point was change from (the way my Grandmother pronounced it) Levine. But I read that that you had a french version as Leving. So am not sure. The only other piece pasted down is that we are some how related to H.G.Wells.

Anyway enjoyed reading your postings. Happy to corresponded.

Mariah Living

RKlas — 2004-06-30 11:37:02Z

My ggggg grandmother is Mariah Living. She was born in Henham Essex England on 16 November 1767. She marrried Thomas Nottage Snr. It would be interesting to know if anybody is related.

Rachel

Re: Living Family

donflagg — 2003-10-26 10:54:40Z

Edwin Living, b Middlesex 1811, d Islington 1888, Freeman of the Guild of Tallow Chandlers, m Eliza Goodwins b Norfolk 1812, at St Mary's, Marylebone Road. There is a will for Edwin 1888 living (this always cause confusion!) at 36 Lorraine Road, Holloway, Middlesex.

Their son Stephen is my wife's greatgrandfather.

Does anyone have anything prior to Richard Living, b possibly 1768, m Mary Hunt (?).

Re: Living Family

davidliving — 2003-03-17 05:36:14Z

Hi Julie

I have emailed Jason before but as yet found no link. Do you know who Charles LIVING's (1848) parents were

Re: Living Family

davidliving — 2003-03-18 23:52:40Z

There are two Amy Chalkley's on the 1901 census website which assuming she still lived with her parents might give you this information.

http://www.census.pro.gov.uk

In terms of Charles Living it is working at which one he is on the same site but you know his father anyway.

Somehow I think all Living's must be related but getting information prior to 1850 or working out how they are all related prior to 1850 is not easy.

Re: Edwin Living and Eliza Goodwins

susan202 — 2003-06-06 11:11:24Z

Eliza Goodwins was my Great, Great, Great Grandfather's sister.
She was born in Lammas, Norfolk, England - 1 of 13 children. Her parents were Stephen Goodwins (spelt as Goodwin or Goodings on some records) and her mother Frances Amies.

Re: Living Family

Brendan122 — 2005-08-06 23:11:05Z

Hi David

I have just stumbled across some of your old message boards on the "Living" family on Ancestry website as I have been researching this name for a number of years and Edwin Living (b 1811) was my GGG grandfather.

As your message was a number of years old, I won't write too much of an essay, but if you are still interested, I would be happy to discuss further and/or exchange information.

Hope to hear from you soon.

Regards

Jackie Bateman

Re: Living Surname

l_flay — 2002-11-18 22:22:11Z

Saw your message of 30 August. Like you I also have 'Living' ancestors from Southampton and London. Please contact me if you want to compare names and dates.

Margret Marshall (Fersa)

sharonyoung96 — 2004-01-18 00:55:00Z

I am trying to find my mother margret marshal (fersa) she emigrated to Canada in 1967 approx, i am desperatley trying to find her if anyone can help please reply