Schindler - Family History & Genealogy Message Board

Re: Gustave Schindler - 1855 from Hungary moved to Scotland, then Lancashire

billschindler1 — 2009-09-25 16:01:31Z

Brilliant - thanks Sue....are you a relative? Or one of the very helpful other members on here who have managed to uncover some basics which I have quite obviously missed!

Many thanks again!

Cheers
Bill

Re: Gustave Schindler - 1855 from Hungary moved to Scotland, then Lancashire

Susan2670 — 2009-09-25 14:00:51Z

Marriage: 1st Feb 1880
Parish: Holy Trinity, Marylebone Road, Westminster

Groom: Gustaf Adolph Schindler (of full age)... Waiter
Father Name: Charles Schindler... Warehouseman

Bride: Harriette Popham (of full age)
Father Name: Charles Draycot Popham

Sue

Gustave Schindler - 1855 from Hungary moved to Scotland, then Lancashire

billschindler1 — 2009-09-25 12:57:18Z

Does anybody have any information which could provide family links to my great, great grandfather (1855-1906)??? We know he came from Hungary to England, married Harriet Popham (Hampstead 1856-1935), moved to Scotland (St Rollox, Glasgow and Leith, Edinburgh) then Chorlton-cum-Hardy Lancashire - but we do not know if he had any brothers or sisters, who his mother or father were and which part of Hungary he came from. They had 9 children, (circa 1880-1898) Clement, Charles, Sydney, Stanley, Arthur, Dorothy, Edith, Minnie and Herbert.

He was a Hotel Manager....

Any help, advice, suggestions, gratefully received!

Re: schindler

egypte1 — 2009-08-17 11:54:58Z

great link there!

Re: schindler

tmay2t — 2009-08-17 00:42:39Z

http://www.vccms.org/
You might find what you are looking for at this Catholic Cemeteries sight
Schindlers are here

Ernest Schindler Dauphin County Pa.

egypte1 — 2009-08-05 23:57:52Z

Family with 15 children 13 found: Francis (Frank, and my G-G-grandfather) Charles, Annie (Robinski), Ellen (lost), John M, Joseph G, Andrew J, Earnest J, William H, George J, Mark L, Edward (died near birth). Looking for a link back to Hanover, Germany. Earnest was first foun living with Velmina (Wilmina) and Peter Miller in 1860. Earnest reportedly arrived in US in 1850 and born in 1839 according to 1900 Census.
Big mystery is Frederick (Now found in Downers Grove, Il. with son George), and Sophia Schindler (married Keonig) and Carl (Osgar Charles) who are found mentioned in the family bible. Believe Earnest, Fred, and Sophia are siblings--Carl could be a co-incidence living in Lykens. Carl was born abt 1846. Fred and Sophia show in the family bible--Carl does not.

Any one with info or needing more on this family wishing to link up please reply.

Ernest Schindler Dauphin Co. PA

egypte1 — 2009-08-05 23:40:53Z

Family with 15 children 13 found: Francis (Frank, and my G-G-grandfather) Charles, Annie (Robinski), Ellen (lost), John M, Joseph G, Andrew J, Earnest J, William H, George J, Mark L, Edward (died near birth). Looking for a link back to Hanover, Germany. Earnest was first foun living with Velmina(Wilmina) and Peter Miller in 1860. Earnest reportedly arrived in US in 1850 and born in 1839 according to 1900 Census.
Big mystery is Frederick (mystery solved, found him wife Sofia, son George living in Downers Grove,Il.), and Sophia Schindler (married Koenig) and Carl (Osgar Charles) who are found mentioned in the family bible. Believe Earnest, Fred, and Sophia are siblings--Carl could be a co-incidence as he is not mentioned in the bible with Fred or Sophia but found living in Lykens, PA.

Any one with info or needing more on this family wishing to link up please reply.

Re: St. clair co. MI Schindlers

suechappell16 — 2009-05-17 18:49:19Z

thank you, My Anna was unmarried when she arrived here about 1850s she married Charles Linsday and Herman Lohle and as far as I know she died before Herman did so she would not have been able to marry anyone else. I think she had one brother at least named John Shindler but other than that I have found nothing on her. I do thank you for getting in touch, but Otta is two young to have been her sibling but could have been a nephew maybe. I just don't know enough about her to say.
Thanks again
Sue

Re: St. clair co. MI Schindlers

schindler188 — 2009-05-17 16:12:06Z

Dear Sue;

I am aware of an Anna/Anne (Serbert) Schindler (1867-1955) in New Baltimore, Michigan (a town on the county line between Macomb and St. Clare Counties).

Anna was the second wife of Otto Schindler (1861-1944). His first wife, Bertha, was Anna's sister.

Anna and Bertha's father was Lawrence Sebert, and mother was Marie (Blimke) Serbert.

She had one child, Irene, who died when about one year old. Her step children (Bertha's children) would be my grandfather.

----kurt: schindler@kaltelnet.net

Jake and Catherine (?) Schindler

crdudley — 2009-04-24 01:05:57Z

Looking for parents of Jake and Catherine Schindler. Also maiden name of Catherine. Jake was born in Germany and died 1903. I believe Catherine was also born in Germany. They had a daughter, Lena born 1874 in Pennsylvania. She married William Colfax Dobbins in 1890 at Salina, Kansas. Any info would be appreciated.

Re: schindler

ironhorse11 — 2009-04-05 02:43:21Z

She was possibly my great grandmother. Married to John Meil in Texas. Mother of 8-9 children.Your dates seem to fit. I have more info. Bruce

John G SCHINDLER (1824-1896), Germany to Sullivan Co, NY

ddanigen — 2009-03-18 03:45:38Z

Interested in any information on the following family:

John G. SCHINDLER, b. 27 July 1824 in Baden-Württemberg, Germany. He settled and lived most of his life in Sullivan County, New York, though whether that was his initial destination upon arrival in the US, I don't know.

The first record of John G. SCHINDLER I have found is the 1860 Census, where he appears with wife and 3 children in Sullivan Co, NY. He was a lumberman and for a time served as a Justice of the Peace. It was in this capacity that, in 1879, he purported to help an elderly widow, Mrs. HELFRICH, to pursue a claim against the government for a Civil War pension on account of her only son who had been killed in the war. In 1880 John G. SCHINDLER along with another man, Wendellon SMITH were convicted and sent to prison for defrauding the "WIDOW HELFRICH" of her pension.

John's obituary, published in the Middletown Argus, 18 Sept 1896, in Orange Co, NY, indicated he came to America at age 21. Whether he came with other family is unknown.

His first wife, Catherine, was supposed to have been from Hesse-Darmstadt. She died 5 Jan 1870, leaving 5 children:

1. Charles W. SCHINDLER, b. 19 April 1851 in NY, m. Lucinda MANETTA abt. 1870. He d. 26 March 1879, cause of death: "poisoned by money". Four children, of whom 2 died in infancy. Two living in 1900: Frederick C. and Frances "Fannie" May, m. Cyrus DODGE.

2. Caroline "Carrie" SCHINDLER, b. 2 May 1857 in NY, m. John CREESY abt. 1883 and moved to Spokane, WA in 1898. John d. Spokane 1920, and Carrie moved to San Francisco and then Alameda Co, CA, where she d. 12 May 1940. Four children: Charles Lester, Mabel, Marion Alice, Edward John. (Rev. Charles Lester CREESY is my great-grandfather; I have considerably more on this line).

3. Christina "Tina" SCHINDLER, b. Oct 1859 in NY, m. Miles R. HARDENBURGH / HARDENBAUGH abt. 1884, lived in PA for a few years, where children Floyd James, Carrie E., and Alice were born. By 1900 this couple was living in Missoula, MT, where Miles d. Jan 1944. Christina d. later that same year, Oct 1944, in Richland, MT.

4. John G. SCHINDLER, b. Sept 1861, m. abt 1888, Martha DILL. Two daughters, Ada C. and Ruth Dill, and a 3rd child who died in infancy. John and Martha were living in Middletown, Orange Co, NY, in 1930.

5. George H. SCHINDLER, b. abt 1868 in NY, living at time of father's death in 1896. Nothing further confirmed, though there is a family that looks like a probable match: wife Rosa, b. Apr 1874 in NY, children: Alice C, m. an Aberholtz, 1 dau; marriage apparently ended in divorce?; Theodore (1902 - 1971), at least one marriage and separation, producing at least 1 dau; and twins Rhoda and Roberta.

I would be most interested in any information that would either confirm or exclude this family as that of George, son of my John G SCHINDLER.

Following wife Catherine's death in 1870, John G. (Sr) m. 2nd Salinda ANDERSON (1835-1918, dau of Joseph and Hannah).

They had one son, William Floyd SCHINDLER, b. 10 Oct 1874 in NY. As of the 1930 Census, he was single (never married as far as I can determine, age 56, and living in Middletown, NY. No known offspring.

Does anyone have any of these families?

Thanks!
Denise

SCHINDLER Julius C and Marcia L

t42CrownHill — 2009-02-13 13:56:13Z

SCHINDLER Julius C and Marcia L

I photographed this gravestone in the Crown Hill Memorial Cemetery, Dallas, Dallas Co., Texas. Feel free to use this picture for your personal records. This is one of the 201,088 cemetery photos free at http://teafor2.com .

If you know more about this person please reply here,instead of contacting me because this is most likely not my family.

Daeth of Mr. Siegfried Sigismund Schindler in Brazil

davwayell — 2008-10-03 01:30:53Z

Anyone interested in a copy of the U.S. Department of State's "Report of the Death of an American Citizen" for Mr. Siegfried Sigismund Schindler, please contact me so I can conduct research to locate the record. Mr. Schindler died in Brazil on April 16, 1935.

Dave Ellison
davwayell@aol.com

Daeth of Mr. Siegfried Sigismund Schindler in Brazil

davwayell — 2008-10-03 01:29:58Z

Re: Maria Schindler married George Reeder in Ohio 1800's daughter Elizabeth

karencrawfordjennings — 2008-08-20 03:05:28Z

Saw your mention of Albert Schindler.Albert was the brother of Hiram my mataernal ggrandfather. Their name was listed as Schnedler on the 1860 census and and believe Swindler on one census. I show Andrew as their fatherb. about 1800 to 1805 in Baden and Susanna (Thompson) I believe...b. about 1827 in either Pa. or Oh. children were Andrew 1843, Hiram, 1845, Albert 1847, George 1850, Mary 1853 and William about 1846. Would love to stay in touch if you find any more on the Schindlers! My maternal grandmother was Gussie Elizabeth Schindler. Daughter of Hiram and Susannah Young.

Re: YORK Co PA Schindlers?

dolpat — 2008-08-12 04:06:45Z

Hello,
I have been searching my Shindler line and came a by your messages re: Jesse and Emma Elizabeth, I believe this to be the line that I'm also searching. Do you have information on Jesse? Is his father Christopher? Did Jesse have a brother Henry, Michael, and a sister Leah?
Thank-you
Pat

St. clair co. MI Schindlers

schappell178 — 2008-06-21 00:08:46Z

I am looking for info on a Ann Schindler who was born about 1836 Germany, and died about 1880 in St. Clair co MI. She married in 1854 Charles Linsday/Lindsay and then married a Herman Loehl after Charles died. Any help appreciated.
schappell@indy.rr.com Thanks Sue

Malinda Schindler (b. 1888, IL) m. William Walker 1903, IL

2006-11-14 01:14:38Z

Appreciate information regarding children of Malinda (died 1918). Have information on Harry and William. Trying to trace Mildred and Elvy. They are:

William Perry Walker 1906
Harry Remig Walker 1907
Mildred Mae Walker 1909
Elvy Anna Walker 1912

Believe Elvy Anna was in an orphanage for a while. Mildred married Ernest Nielsen and might have moved to Florida.

Malinda Schindler (b. 1888, IL) m. William Walker 1903, IL

2006-11-14 01:14:35Z

Elizabeth Schindler Wink Ryan; :A > MS

2006-08-28 12:36:22Z

My ggrandmother was married to George Eugene Wink in New Orleans, La. around 1883. She moved to Biloxi, Ms. after his death. She was a nurse. Her children were: Eugene, George, Clara, Nettie and Joseph. I am interested in more info on any of these family members and their ancestors.

CHARLES MARIONSCHINDLER AND HIS WIFE LILLIE OLETA VINCENT. THEY WERE MY GRANDPARENTS

2006-08-28 12:35:53Z

ANY INFORMATIOM WILL BE GREATLY APPRECIATED

Otto Paul Schindler

2006-08-28 12:33:15Z

my grandmother's father was
otto paul schindler, he was married to
emma ogren
i am trying to trace this side of my family
my grandmothers name was
helen arlynne schindler
they were all in the mich, wisc, minn area
any info would be greatly appreciated
i live in virginia and can't seem to get going in the right direction
cara

Peter Schindler 1849 - 1900

2006-08-28 12:31:41Z

Born 1849 died 1900 Born in Switzerland married to Anna (Rosenberger) Children Ida,Bertha,Otto August,Peter ,Mathilda,and Anna My relationship is with Otto my grandfather,his son Oscar was my father. My son Jeffrey is the last namesake from our tree

Peter Schindler

geoschindler — 2006-08-28 12:31:55Z

Thanks for your quick response, Michael. I reviewed my genealogy, such as it is, and believe we can't link up to your family tree.
Happy Thanksgiving.

ROSINA SCHINDLER B. 1828 AUSTRIA

jeblaschke — 2007-09-03 01:51:55Z

I am looking for information on Rosina Schindler who married Anton Juenger. They lived in the DeWitt Co./Colorado,Co. TX area. They had 10 children:
Marie; Joseph; Anna; Theresa; Louise; Charles Edmond; Lottie; Emilia Pauline; Emil Charles; and Fredinand.
Any help with this family would be greatly appreciated.
Thank You
Jackie

Re: Schindler Family - "Hermetz" Austria

willthon — 2007-11-07 09:41:03Z

http://www.mapy.cz/#x=140902400@y=135061504@z=7@mm=ZP@sa=s@s...

The Ewing, Nebraska Schindler family came from Bergstadt, Mahren District, Austria (1870's) - now in northeastern Czech Republic. Bergstadt is now called Horni Mesto.
Type name of town in 'box' and then 'hledej' to find.
Click 'Dalsi' tab then 'historica' tab to get old German/Austrian map.
Bill Thoendel
Hoskins, Nebraska

Re: Schindler Family - "Hermetz" Austria

willthon — 2007-11-06 16:03:31Z

http://www.mapy.cz/#x=140902400@y=135061504@z=7@mm=ZP@sa=s@s...

The Ewing, Nebraska Schindler family came from Bergstadt, Mahren District, Austria (1870's) - now in northeastern Czech Republic. Bergstadt is now called Horni Mesto.
Type name of town in 'box' and then 'hledej' to find other villages.
Click 'Dalsi' tab then 'historica' tab to get old German/Austrian map.
Bill Thoendel
Hoskins, Nebraska

Joseph Schinder; Germany > LA

mreso — 2006-08-28 12:35:33Z

Joseph Schindler arrived in New Orleans, La. about 1854 or so. Have been told there were 8 brothers who arrived from Germany. Who were his Parents. He had brothers Henry, Louis, Charles and Anthony. Who were the others?

Re: Adeline Schindler

GSchindler0033 — 2006-10-04 10:34:05Z

Who Was Adeline's Parents. might be Able To Help

Norris Schindler

phirl — 2007-08-14 16:40:30Z

I have an obit for sister of my g grandfather Charles Bailey. Her name was Mary Elizabeth Norris.

Her survivivors include daughter Daisy Schindler. grandson Norris Schindler who served in 91st (Wild West) division, and gr grandsons Jimmy and David Schindler. all from San Francisco

Those name familiar to anyone?

Re: Schindler

AudreyK — 2008-01-02 04:10:31Z

While searching Ancestry's World Trees, I came across your Schindler information and you have some information that exactly matches mine, some from Baden and some from the U.S.

Not sure if you were filling in your Tree and mine helped you or if you had other sources which might further confirm and help me in my searching for my Schindler line. My parents, grandparents and ggrandparents are in your Tree and would be great to have found a relative.

You can reach me @genealogybuff@yahoo.com.

Re: Schindler's from Ulm, Oberkirsch, Baden to IL (1841 - 1862)

Bruce_Schindler — 2008-01-20 15:20:06Z

My family came from Ulm. As Ulm is a small town, it seems likely that a relationship exists. I don't see any common names, however.

Two brothers, Ignatius (Ignatz) and Ferdinand, emigrated to America. A third, Josef stayed in Ulm. The parents were Franz Josef Schindler and Maria Anna Graf. Josef was born in 1850, Ignatz in 1856, and Ferdinand in 1864.

Do you have any additional information on the family in Ulm?

Re: schindler

shortcioffe — 2007-11-25 18:05:09Z

Do you know where they might have lived?

Re: Louise Ernestina SCINDLER

an122096 — 2007-11-06 07:44:33Z

Carl:

Did you ever get more info on Louise Schindler? My information is that she was born on October 19, 1885 in Germany and married Oscar Mauke in 1903. They had four children -- Oscar Jr, Walter, Henry and Ruth. I am looking for Louise and Oscar's parents, etc.

Juliana Schindler

deniseschindler19 — 2006-11-01 02:30:50Z

My xx Grandmother was Julianna Schindler Married to Constantine Schindler in Baden Germany. Any info please EM me at smoothmover1954@aol.com

Re: Maria Schindler married George Reeder in Ohio 1800's daughter Elizabeth

j10101 — 2006-12-09 15:16:59Z

I am wondering where in Ohio this George Schindler was as I also have a George Schindler in the 1840's ...I think but need more information.... My Grandpa Albert 1847 was married to Melissa Clevenger 1856/57 and his parents are listed as Andrew and Susanna ..... I am thinking that Andrew's dad is George..... but I could be wrong.... maybe cousins or something....my Schindler family has a lot of single children not the typical large German families which surprised me these Schindlers are in Jackson Township in Putnam County Ohio....

Hope this information can help you or you might be of help to me let me know ....

John Fischer - son of Lisa Schindler, Conrad Fischer, Appleton, WI

keating1950_1 — 2006-09-01 04:15:01Z

Looking for information for John Fischer, emigrated from Bayreuth, German about 1920 with cousin Fritz Schindler. Emigrated to Chicago and later moved to WI - Appleton was last known residence. Son Wally.
Owned a restaurant - a smorgasboard type.

Would appreciate any leads.
Thank you
A Nelson anelson851@comcast.net

Re: Schindler

JulieW95 — 2008-05-24 04:20:12Z

Re my reply to your message in January, 08, I gave you an incorrect internet address. It is genealogybuff2001@yahoo.com. Hope to hear from you.

Re: Schindler's from Ulm, Oberkirsch, Baden to IL (1841 - 1862)

JulieW95 — 2008-05-24 04:01:31Z

Just checked the messageboard and found your reply. Should check more often.

When you said Maria Anna Graf and Franz Josef Schindler, it rang a bell. A few years ago I sent off for some Ulm records from Family Search. Of course they were in German, but I managed to find my Schindler's and on the same page as Edward Schindler and Christina Merz are the family of Franz Schindler (1822) and M. Anna Graf (1826) and their children. You mention Ignatz (1856), Ferdinand (1864) and Josef (1850). They are listed as well as several others.

I hired a researcher in Germany and he traced Edward Schindler (1814) back to Renchen. (Close to Ulm) Edward's father was Sebastian (1778) and his wife was Maria Anna Schott (Renchen).

Does any of this match anything you might have come across?

Re: schindler

mosschristy — 2007-11-27 21:59:23Z

I have found more information on these Schindlers. Dorthy's parents were Augusta and William who immigrated from Germany in 1888. William later married Anny(ie) and they had Esther, Lillie, and Willie. In the 1910 census it shows that William and Anny had been married about 10 years. It seems that Augusta either died or divorced William after the birth of Dorthy in 1897. I hope this helps.

Re: schindler

mosschristy — 2007-11-15 20:33:12Z

It has been a long time since you posted this message, and I don't know if my information will help you, but I am related to the Schindler's of Vernon, Tx. My grandmother was great grandmother was Dorthy Schindler and she was born in McCually, Fisher Co. Texas. She moved to Vernon, where all her children were born. Was Annie possibly her aunt? Dorthy's father was William and he and Dorthy's mother, Augusta Pade, were both born in Germany.

Samuel Schindler, was married about 1925 to

brendamgriffith — 2008-04-04 04:13:13Z

Marian Elizabeth Hartzell or Marian E. McLean
or Mary Elizabeth. Applied for license to marry in New Rochelle or Mt. Vernon, New York.

He divorced Marian E. in 1930 on the grounds of desertion.

Please respond to brendogs at yahoo dot com

Schindler - Villigen Germany

kaalber — 2007-04-04 06:52:19Z

Hoping for guidance. My great grandmother Matilda Schindler Storz was born on 24 Mar 1876. She emigrated to the United States from Villigen Germany about 1877. Her parents also relocated to the US. They were Englebert Schindler(B. 4 Mar 1836) and Anne Trichler/Trischler Schindler (B. 4 May 1843)

Englebert had a brother Charles who died in infancy in 1835 or 1836. Anne's father was Joseph with a birthdate of 7 Mar 1804 or a deathdate of 7 Mar unknown year. It has been suggested by family that Anne had sisters with the names of Bertha, Mary and Katherine. Katherine was James Cassell's 2nd wife.

Re: Otto Paul Schindler

pattbunt — 2006-08-28 12:33:44Z

My grandfather Henry Schindler had a brother otto paul married to Emma Ogren..Paul was born 10-21-1888 in Vulcan,mi. died12-18-1966 in Crystals falls,mi...from the obit in the paper my mother saved.is this the same??

Dietrich Schindler of Otoe County, Nebraska

raelmer — 2007-06-22 14:08:15Z

Searching for information on Dietrich Schindler b. 1843 in Canton Glarus, Switzerland and lived in Otoe County, Nebraska.

Re: Constantine Schindler

jcstretz — 2008-03-25 04:20:12Z

Would you know any Beha's from Boonville, MO? Thanks! John Stretz

Re: Joseph Schindler b. 1858; Austria > MO

maytc — 2006-12-05 04:35:25Z

Hi, I am also seaching for Joseph Schindler. I am his 2nd great grandaughter, named for his wife Theresia Knapp. Oral family tradition quotes Joseph as saying he had a twin brother (who died at an unknown age)and apprenticed as a locksmith. According to the 1930 census, he was born in Berlin, Germany. Other records say Boehman Koenigreich Austria.
He immigrated to America about 1888. The earliest records we have locate him in St. Joseph Missouri in 1890. By 1892 he was in Salt Lake City Utah with his wife Theresia Knapp, where he lived until his death in 1930.

Joseph and Theresia had 7 children born in Salt Lake City Utah USA (Emil was the oldest)

Emil Richard 24 Oct 1892
Oscar Harry 16 Oct 1894
Fredrick William 7 Sept 1895
Joseph McKinley 4 March 1897
Annie ? Sept 1898
Henry 27 Oct 1901
Irvin 2 Jan 1903

We have been unable to locate further information about his parents or siblings. Any help would be greatly welcomed.

~Theresia

Re: schindler

chelwes2001 — 2007-11-25 19:08:58Z

The story goes that Donald's father was working on a ship and while it was docked in the harbor(don't know which one) he was supposed to be the guard, he was the only one left aboard the ship and he decided that he was not going back to germany so he jump overboard and swam ashore. so i guess you could say he was just dropped here. This was supposed to be in the mid-1920s, His name was supposed to be Frederick and he was supposed to be almost 70, when he did this. He promptly married and had a son named Donald Frederick abt 1928. When I search the 1930 census the only Donald F b abt 1928 is in Norwell MAss. They are
Albert 67 Germany immigrated 1898
Mary 39 Ireland the state* hard to read immi 1919
James Baker 15 RI
Donald F 1 7/12 MASS/Germ/Ire
Garrold under 1 yr MASS/Germ/Ire
This Albert is Elbert with Mary Baker(Housekeeper) and 12yr Gertrude in 1920 census

From what I have been told Donald's father should be Frederick. & they strongly feel that "Frederick" did not come here until 1925-1927 and he came by jumping ship so there would be no record. maybe he just wasn't recorded in 1930 and this is a different family altogether....???

I am completely stumped... These are the only census' that I find for any of these. As for location I just don't know.
Thanks so much for responding.
weschel@mvn.net

schindler

chelwes2001 — 2007-11-19 00:39:24Z

I am searching for any information on my little sister's dad's family. Unfortunately I have little to go on and don;t know where to start-although I have been researching other lines for yrs and yrs. all I know is her paternal grandmother's name was June ? b. 1929 and died in 2002.
She was married to Donald Schindler b. abt 1928 (still living but I have only meet him once) They had a son David (my sister's dad and he passed in 2006) They also had a dau, named Sue. I don't know anything else about the family. Can anyone help? I'm very sorry I can't offer much....
can respond to my email at:
weschel@mvn.net