Wilberforce - Family History & Genealogy Message Board

Re: sarah

fillandclaire — 2009-03-19 20:52:51Z

Tom,

I noticed that you have been discussing an Aley Wilberforce. I too am from a Wilberforce line but have not been successful in tracing it very far back. I did look at this family though and noticed that quite early on, Herbert started to be used as a family name. I am trying to trace a Herbert Wilberforce, but from before the 1st that I can find in your line (around c1810-1820). Do you think there could be a connection anywhere?
Claire

Re: HERBERT WILBERFORCE c1820

ELLinSpain — 2008-06-14 22:51:22Z

Yes, "porkies" on a marriage cert goes on even nowadays so ...

As you say, if dad was a publican (no shame there) no need for porkies but if they were illigitimate..... most certainly fibs were told - maybe thats why Mary Ida never spoke of her family..... Wilberforce could just have been on the female line

Re: HERBERT WILBERFORCE c1820

fillandclaire — 2008-06-14 22:24:59Z

All I know of the family is about my Gran really. My Gt Gran (Mary Ida 1889) never talked of her family though she was a real family orientated person after marrying. Her 1st daughter(my Gran) was called Grace Wilberforce Bromfield so the names are very relevant. My Mum asked my Gran where the name Wilberforce came from (sounding strange to her as a child) and she was told that "it was a family name".

I think Ida b1844 was a spinster when she died and Graces marriage cert to John Burns also shows her as being a spinster. Would they be able to lie about that on a wedding cert?

If Herbert is the correct name and he died in the forces, why would he be on the marriage cert as a publican? Surely you would be proud of your father if he died in service? Oh, I'm confused!!!!

Re: HERBERT WILBERFORCE c1820

fillandclaire — 2008-06-14 22:24:10Z

Re: HERBERT WILBERFORCE c1820

ELLinSpain — 2008-06-14 22:11:09Z

well - I have been down this sort of road before - I did look for a Herberts birth/marriage & death all zilch (back from 1810 onwards so, I think this is wrong and, I think, it may well be that "Herbert" is a fib - and, the girls are illigitimate

poss alternative:

Ida was actually Mary Ida - what if Grace was actually ..... Grace ??? or something totally different
i.e

Births Sep 1852
WILBERFORCE Mary Rosa Chelsea 1a 145

Now, I cant find this girl anywhere on census so....???

the other alternative is, he was not born in UK (where I done searches) maybe abroard in the military? then, killed abroad - there would'nt be a record - seems strange tho, that the census is not producing any results for 1851, 1861 & 1871 tho for these girls - unless they were abroad all this time (not likely)

the other alt ( a REAL longshot)

that Wilberforce is not their name - they both married a Wilberforce (has happened where two sisters marries 2 brothers or cousins.....

Re: HERBERT WILBERFORCE c1820

fillandclaire — 2008-06-14 19:35:24Z

Thanks for all your help.
To be truthful though, I'm glad its not just me because I thought I was going crazy. I've joked with my Mum saying that with him being a publican, he was dodging the tax man and ducking down behind the bar every time the transcriber walked in!!!
I don't know where else to turn though now.

Re: HERBERT WILBERFORCE c1820

ELLinSpain — 2008-06-14 19:15:52Z

me neither - also looked for a marriage for Herbert - zero

+ death after 1853 for Herbert - zilch

Re: HERBERT WILBERFORCE c1820

fillandclaire — 2008-06-14 18:25:03Z

Thanks anyway. Its so infuriating.

I can't even find the birth record for Grace in Hammersmith, London c1854. If I could get that then I'd be able to get her bith cert, find her mothers name and carry on my searches with her.

Re: HERBERT WILBERFORCE c1820

ELLinSpain — 2008-06-14 16:28:29Z

Tracked him thro but dos'nt look like he's a possible

Looked thro military births & marriages - zero

looked thro India registrations - zilch

Re: HERBERT WILBERFORCE c1820

fillandclaire — 2008-06-14 14:35:30Z

I wonder if Robert was ever in India? Maybe in the forces. Do you have full access by any chance to do a search for me? I hate to ask.
Claire

Re: HERBERT WILBERFORCE c1820

ELLinSpain — 2008-06-14 14:25:09Z

me again

I have known many marriage certs whereby the dads name was wrong so - just a maybe:

1861
WILBERFORCE, Robert Head Married M 49 1812 Licensed Victualler born Kirk Ella, Yorkshire
WILBERFORCE, Esther Wife Married F 50 1811 born York City
in 54, Ba..ley Arms, Spencer Street, Holy Trinity, Kingston Upon Hull

Re: HERBERT WILBERFORCE c1820

fillandclaire — 2008-06-14 13:57:30Z

Hi,

Thanks but I do have this. I got Grace and Johns marriage cert hoping to get info to help trace back further. They married on 21st Feb 1897. Grace was 43 and John William was 30 and a ships cook. He wasn't on the 1901 census because he was probably away at sea at the time. Graces father was Herbert Wilberforce (deceased) and a Publican. Johns father was John William Burns (deceased) and a Calico printer. I still haven't managed to find either family before 1891 and searches on "Herbert" have provided no hits at all.
I also found a death for Ida Snr in 1Q 1911 in Toxteth but no death for Grace. Ida Jnr (mary Ida as she was christened) was my Gt gran and married Thomas Allman in 1911

Re: HERBERT WILBERFORCE c1820

fillandclaire — 2008-06-14 13:44:17Z

Hi

Thanks for looking but I have this info. I can't find any trace of the family before 1891 though. Young Ida (Mary Ida as she was christened) was my Great Gran. Grace married John W Burns in 1897 and I ordered their marriage certificate to get their fathers names - hoping I could trace my search further back. Graces Father was named as Herbert (deceased)(a Publican) and Johns was another John William Burns (deceased)(a calico printer). Searching on the name Herbert has brought no hits and I can't find the Burns family either.
Grace and John married 21st Feb 1897 and Grace was 43, John was 30 and a ships cook. Thats probably the reason why he wasn't on the 1901 census if he was away at sea.

Re: HERBERT WILBERFORCE c1820

ELLinSpain — 2008-06-11 13:31:12Z

Hello

excuse me butting in - following on...

1901
Grace Burns 48 (Mar) Laundress born: Liverpool
daughter
Ida Mary Burns 11 born: Liverpool
sister In Law
Ida Wilberforce 58 Bookeeper born: Liverpool
76 Warwick Street, Toxteth Park

Cannot find a Military birth for Ida

Re: HERBERT WILBERFORCE c1820

kimcapes100659 — 2008-06-11 11:07:05Z

HELLO
DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE THIS
1891
90 HANDLE ST LANCASHIRE TOXTETH PARK
IDA WILBERFORCE 46 SINGLE INDIA
GRACE " 39 WIDOW HAMMERSMITH LONDON
MARY A BURNS 2 NIECE LIVERPOOL
JUST CHECKED FREEBMD A GRACE WILBERFORCE MARRIED A JOHN WILLIAM BURNS MARCH QUARTER 1897 TOXTETH PARK BUT MARY WAS 2 IN 1891
KIM

HERBERT WILBERFORCE c1820

fillandclaire — 2008-06-10 22:27:10Z

I'M SEARCHING FOR A HERBERT WILBERFORCE BORN c1820 (UNFORTUNATELY LOCATION UNKNOWN). HE HAD 2 DAUGHTERS THAT I KNOW OF - IDA BORN c1844 IN INDIA AND GRACE BORN c1854 IN LONDON.

ANY HELP WOULD BE MUCH APPRECIATED

Re: wilberforce, lishman

wgwilberforce — 2008-05-18 18:41:04Z

It is probable that the person concerned was called Wilberfoss and because of the fame of the younger branch of the family it was changed to Wilberforce.
The present head of the Wilberfoss lives is Peter Wilberfoss and he lives in New Zealand.
I have traced several Wilberfoss who now call themselves
Wilberforce.
But I am not in a position to teace this particular individual.

Re: sarah

deker23 — 2008-05-02 22:32:34Z

Hello Sarah its been a long time do you remember sending me photos of Aley and Mary Wilberforce. Regards Tom

wilberforce, lishman

caroledale — 2002-02-06 11:17:39Z

I have a James Lishman Wilberforce on my tree. He was married and died in Australia. From his marriage certificate, his date of birth would be 1820, from his death certificate 1832. His death certificate shows place of birth as Millinthorpe, England. His marriage certificate shows place of birth Millingthorpe, England. My research shows that there is also a Milnethorpe. Checking GENUKI, I have place names in both Yorkshire and Westmorland. The main mystery is his mother is listed as Eleanor Lichman (alternate spellings Leachman, or Leichman) on his marriage certificate, father unknown (in brackets - illegitimate), but on his death certificate Father is listed as James Wilberforce, mother Eleanor Wilberforce nee Lishman. He appeared to have arrived in Australia in about 1854. During his time he lived in Stanley and a local historian believes he is the grandson of the famous William Wilberforce

Can anybody help

Re: sarah

sarjongriffiths — 2007-10-18 17:30:53Z

Hello,
I have just found this message on the ancestry board.
Hope you don't mind me asking but are you Thomas Wilberforce who I corresponded with quite a long time ago re. my writing a book on my Wilberforce family ancestors, and sent me information and old photographs of your father and grandfather?
Regards
Sarah Holmes

sarah

deker23 — 2006-09-02 14:13:29Z

hello, Can any one please tell me Sarah Holmes email address. regards T.w.

Re: sarah

deker23 — 2008-05-02 22:30:47Z

Hello Sarah its been a long time do you remember sending me photos of Aley and Mary Wilberforce. Regards Tom

Uk Passengers (WIlberforce) to USA - 1860 onwards

sarah1191 — 2002-03-21 15:10:28Z

Looking for two ancestors, brothers John and Mark Wilberforce from Yorkshire (UK) who emmigrated in the 19th century, probably from Liverpool over to America.
John may have left England from 1859 onwards and Mark from 1890 - 1896. Any look up information about these two brothers and where they settled would be gratefully received.
Many thanks
Sarah Holmes
(Yorkshire, UK)