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What does "ap" mean?

What does "ap" mean?

Posted: 3 Apr 2001 3:05PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 16 Aug 2004 10:02PM GMT
While researching, I came across the letters "ap" in front of a name. Here is an example:

ap Rhys, William (~1525 - 1588) - male
b. ABT. 1525 in Boemar,BUCK,Eng.
d. 1588 in Boemer, Buckinghamshire, England
father: ap Gruffudd, Rhys (~1454 - 1532)
mother: Howard, Katherine (~1508 - 1548)
spouse: Myal, Thomasine (1524 - >1568)
- m. 30 AUG 1546 in Suffolk, England
----------child: Rice, Henry (~1555 - )

Has anyone ever seen this before?

Ap = son of

Posted: 3 Apr 2001 8:09PM GMT
Edited: 24 Jun 2001 2:09PM GMT
Before surnames were invented, people were kept straight by their trades, physical characteristics or fathers.

"Ap" means "son of" in Welsh, the same as "bin" in Moslem countries, "anak" in Iban, "son" in Scandanavian and "fitz" in Norman French.

Thus if Albert begot Bruce, who begot Charles, who begot Daniel, their names would be

Albert the Strong (or the Blacksmith)
Bruce ap Albert
Charles ap Bruce
Daniel ap Charles

If they were Norwegian, Swedish or Danish they would be:

Albert the Red
Bruce Albertson
Charles Bruceson
Daniel Charleson

Except their first names would have been Lars, John and Ander.

Osama bin Lauden is much in the news, regrettably. One wonders what his father, Lauden, thinks of him.

How about this?

Posted: 4 Apr 2001 1:43PM GMT
Edited: 15 Apr 2002 7:35PM GMT
I understand what you are saying, but how does that apply to this:

(ap) William Rhys is the son of (ap) Rhys Gruffudd.

Did William take his fathers first name for his surname?
Posted: 4 Apr 2001 3:54PM GMT
Edited: 24 Jun 2001 2:09PM GMT
This to me looks like
Gruffudd the red (or the Carpenter) begot
Rhys ap Gruffudd, who begot
William ap Rhys
with each son taking his father's name as a surname.
-------------------------
(ap) William Rhys is the son of (ap) Rhys Gruffudd.

Did William take his fathers first name for his surname?

Posted: 8 Apr 2001 10:44AM GMT
Edited: 15 Apr 2002 7:35PM GMT
So, if I'm understanding the pattern, ferch means "daughter of"?

Re: What does "ap" mean?

Posted: 16 Dec 2009 11:21AM GMT
Classification: Query
i dont know,but if he went by ap as 1st name maybe thats why no one can find documantiaon on william ap rhys/rice.
edmund rice foundation i guess for yrs been trying too find more info on family tree paper prove.

now u got me wondering, Myal,Thomasine what is 1st name on ure list,i got thomasine mynn in my tree,i see its reversed in ures.mine got katherine howard ures got howard katherine..i wonder if u reverse the name william rhys ap "ap as last name"same thing for his father.odd i got griffith ap rhys marrried too katherine howard,when i research gruffudd it came up "gruffydd rhys ap" no matter how it spelt takes me too ruler of the kingdom of Deheubarth in south Wales 1132 – 28 April 1197,wow i never new that either

u wouldnt happen too have any thing too prove henery rice father is william ap rhys would ya,i mean a paper trail profe.

Re: What does "ap" mean?

Posted: 16 Dec 2009 11:27AM GMT
Classification: Query
Ap means son of.
Thus William son of Rhys

Re: What does "ap" mean?

Posted: 16 Dec 2009 3:24PM GMT
Classification: Query
oh son of,,
that explains why i was seeing ap who wasnt a rhys in there name.

thanks

Re: What does "ap" mean?

Posted: 9 Oct 2014 7:10PM GMT
Classification: Query
...and I believe it stands for Abandoned Patronymics.
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