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Daniel O'Connell The Liberator

Daniel O'Connell The Liberator

Posted: 17 Apr 2009 3:09PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Coppinger, Moylan, O'Connell & England
Hi All,

I am not an O'Connell but have done some extensive research on the O'Connell family and in particular Daniel. Several have referred to his involvement concerning the Emancipation of Catholic Irish. This is factually correct and was actively involved in much more than. He was the founding member of the “Catholic Society of Ireland” of which Stephen Coppinger was one. A name nobody has mentioned her.

Another name nobody here has mentioned is the relationship between the O’Connell family and Bishop John England or his brother Thomas Richard England. Nor for that matter Doctor Francis Moylan. All are directly connected with the promotion of Nano Nagle’s Presentation Order years after her death. Francis Moylan on the other hand was actively involved during her lifetime but the others long after her death.

For those looking for connections or missing links, take a look at my work at http://gw0.geneanet.org/index.php3?b=asaubolle&lang=en;p....

If you would like to know more, please contact me at Ballinacurra@live.com.

All the best

André

Re: Daniel O'Connell The Liberator

Posted: 17 Apr 2009 9:22PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: O'CONNELL, COPPINGER
Hello Andre',

I read your post with interest. At the website you gave, I found the O'Connell list. This message is not intended as criticism of your work, but I hope it gives some additional information for O'Connell researchers.

First, I'd like to refer everyone to THE O'CONNELL FAMILY TRACTS 1, 2 & 3, by Basil Morgan O'Connell, at
http://www.irish-cottage.net/oconnell/.

There are a number of errors & omissions in the O'Connell list at your website. For example, Charles O'Connell and Catherine (Saucy Kate) had 10 children, not just the 2 you show. In branch 1, Melian Spread is shown marrying Charles O'Connell (ca 1772-1802). I was unable to locate this Charles O'Connell. In addition, Melian Spread married a Comyns, becoming Melian Comyns. In branch 4, Daniel O'Connell married Theresa Lombard, where you had no identity for his wife.

Those three examples may be just the tip of the iceberg. I hope everyone will go to the O'Connell Family Tracts site to continue their research. I want the O'Connell information to be as accurate as possible because I read the posts of so many who are trying to find a link to the Liberator.

I am a ggg granddaughter of Daniel O'Connell, the Liberator. His son John (branch 7 of your list) who m. Elizabeth Ryan is my gg grandfather. John (m. Mary Ann Baldwin) is my g grandfather. My grandfather is Daniel O'Connell (b. 1879).

I have over 5,000 names in my FTM file, most of them related to the O'Connell family. I have 83 Coppinger's, as well!

However, I suspect that maintaining a complete list of the O'Connell family is not your main interest, and I appreciate the historical information you have given.

I wasn't familiar with Bishop John England or his brother or Doctor Francis Moylan or Nano Nagle. Because these people are not related to Daniel O'Connell, I (short-sightedly) was not aware of them or their activities. Obviously, they were very much involved in the movement and activities of the Liberator. It is a very interesting sidetrack for me. Thanks for the information! I will watch for these people in my reading. I will also go back to your website and see who else may be lurking there!

Best wishes,
Sheila O'Connell Taipale
sheiladay@cox.net

Re: Daniel O'Connell The Liberator

Posted: 18 Apr 2009 9:49AM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi Shelia,

I am not in the habit of making unsubstantiated claim or factually incorrect statements. I have spent several months researching the O’Connell family; in particular Daniel the Liberator but obviously not as knowledgeable as yourself concerning the others. You quite rightly say that my interests may not be the O’Connell family and I confirm this to be the case. My interest it is purely the relationships between the O’Connell, Coppinger, Nagle, England families to name just a few.

Concerning the missing or possible errors relating to individuals, the tip of the Ice Burg, I will only say I will place them as I find. I will answer the specific comments raised as follows;

• Charles O’Connell & Catherine (Saucy Kate) O’Connell; I have only found two children of this marriage, there may well be more.
• Charles O’Connell married Melian Spread; 07 August 1802. Her parents were Robert Spread & Honora Dunahay. So far I am unable to place this couple and it is quite possible they may not be related.
• Daniel O'Connell married Theresa Lombard, This I had not found so will now update

Concerning your very last paragraph where you state the O’Connell family are not related to families I am researching is factually incorrect. The O’Connell & Coppinger families are descended from Thomas (Toby) Butler through his marriage to Elizabeth Eursula Poyntz. After Thomas (Toby) Butler’s death at sea, Elizabeth married George Mathew from whom Nano Nagle is descended. Furthermore, Elizabeth Coppinger married John O’Connell, Daniel the Liberator’s brother.

Bishop John England, his brother and sister who incidentally was Mother Superior of North Presentation Convent were the children of Philip O’Connell and Jane Cue. So far I have not been able to confirm that Philip O’Connell is related but suspect there is a strong possibility. Particularly, as there are unquestionable social & political events which binds them together with Daniel O’Connell.

Now in closing, I have met with several highly placed Presentation Order researchers, members of the order, all of whom are delighted with what I have given them. Only last Saturday I spent almost four hours with Sister Pius O’Farrell who wrote the Biography of Nano Nagle. She also showed me documentation which proves much of my work.

I hope my reply does not offend you as this is not my intention. I would be more than willing to share my information if you are interested which I am sure you will not be able to resist. Please contact me via Ballinacurra@live.com.

All the best for now.

André

Re: Daniel O'Connell The Liberator

Posted: 19 Apr 2009 12:51AM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi Andre',

I apologize for anything I wrote which implied that you were deliberately posting incorrect statements. I'm sorry it came across that way, because it wasn't meant to be critical. I was just concerned that all the O'Connell information which is posted is accurate, because so many are searching for their link to the Liberator.

I'll address the 3 specific issues we have touched on, and I'll also respond to the O'Connell/Coppinger relationship. After that, I'll contact you off-line for more information on the others, of which I have no knowledge.

1. Charles O'Connell and "Saucy Kate" had 10 children. Documentation for this can be found in the O'C Family Tract #1, pg. 4, and in Burke's Irish Family Records, pg. 891-898.

2. I obviously found a different Melian Spread family, although it's hard to imagine 2 people named Melian Spread, isn't it?

3. Daniel O'Connell did marry Theresa Lombard. They had 5 children. Documentation can be found in the Tract #1, pg. 17, and in BIFR, pg. 891.

Incidentally, there is an index of all related families at the end of each of the O'Connell Family Tracts, which makes it easier to research the Tracts by family name.

I didn't state that the O'Connell's and the Coppinger's weren't related. Of course they are! You have more info about them than I do, it seems. But I definitely have Elizabeth Coppinger marrying john O'Connell, and having 8 children. I believe there are other instances of O'C's marrying Coppinger's. More research needed!

Because the rest of your message doesn't apply directly to the O'Connell's, I'll contact you off-line, as stated. It is obvious we have much to share and maybe we can come up with additional links for the O'Connel links.

I am never offended when I am corrected! Yesterday must have been a bad day at my house! Your research sounds fascinating and I thank you for sharing it.

Cheers,
Sheila
sheiladay@cox.net

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