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Posted: 15 Nov 2012 5:45AM GMT
Classification: Query
Seeking info and descendants of John and Henry MURRAY born London 1849/1850, migrated to Melbourne with sister Rebecca MURRAY, mother Eleanor MURRAY and cousin Jane MURRAY in 1858. Father William MURRAY was a painter, brother of William, John MURRAY, was a carpenter. All lived in North Melbourne. Eleanor MURRAY (nee SOLOMONS) died 1880, William MURRAY died 1890. Both buried Melbourne General Cemetery.
Thank you, Irene.


Posted: 16 Nov 2012 6:05AM GMT
Classification: Query
Descendants may be owners of trees on here.


Posted: 16 Nov 2012 8:27AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 16 Nov 2012 9:44AM GMT
Eleanor MURRAY died in Dec 1881, not 1880. Her death reg was in 1881 (reg 11489); she died in Northcote, aged 58. Are you sure Wm died in 1890 (that death was in Ballarat)?

The Argus, Wednesday 14 December 1881
Friends of Mr. WILLIAM MURRAY are informed that the remains of his late beloved wife, Eleanor, will be interred in the Melbourne General Cemetery, on Thursday, 15th inst. The funeral to leave his residence, 3 Blackwood-street, Hotham, at half-past 3 p.m.

After their arrival, Wm & Eleanor had 3 more children, born in Melbourne:
Hannah 1859, d. 1860 aged 14 months
Samuel 1860, d. 1882 aged 21
Joseph 1864

Rebecca (b. London) married in 1881 to Hy BISHOP (reg 2756). They had the following children, all born in Seymour:
Ethel Emma 24/3/1882, m. Samuel KENYON 16/6/1909, d. 1939 East St Kilda aged 56
Amy 1883, d. 1883 aged 24 days
Ruby Lilian 1884, m. Jno Chas Christopher MARKMAN 17/6/1914, d. 1955 Warr aged 70
Hy Stanley 23/11/1887 (known as Stanley), d. 1949 Carnegie aged 59
Leslie/Lesley Gordon 16/9/1889, d. 1889 aged 3 months
Roy Wilton 16/9/1889 [twin of Les], d. 1890 aged 9 months
Cora Isabella 1891, m. Robt Jno GIBSON 16/9/1915, d. 1965 Armadale aged 74
Edna Doris 1897, m. Eric Coath JONES 15/11/1924, d. 1967 Northcote aged 72

From NLA Trove:

The Argus, Tuesday 4 July 1916, p.1
BISHOP.- On the 1st July, at his residence, Watson street, Seymour, Captain Henry Bishop, dearly beloved husband of the late R. Bishop, and father of Ada, Albert, George (W.A.), Mrs. T. J. Kenyon (Stratford), Mrs. J. Markman, Stanley (Ararat), Mrs. R. J. Gibson, and Edna, in his 73rd year. (Late Education department.)

The Argus, Monday 15 September 1919, p.1
BISHOP - On the 12th September, at her residence, "Marmoot", Watson street, Seymour, Ada Jane, eldest daughter of the late Captain Henry Bishop, and beloved sister of George, Mrs S. J. Kenyon, Mrs J. C. Markman, Stanley, Mrs R. J. Gibson and Edna.

The Argus, Saturday 11 March 1939, p.10
KENYON - On the 9th March, at private hospital, Melbourne, Ethel, beloved wife of the late Samuel Kenyon, loving mother of Gwenneth (Mrs Roberts, England). (Interred Sale 10th March 1939.)
KENYON - On the 9th March, passed peacefully away, Ethel, second eldest daughter of the late Henry and Rebecca Bishop of Seymour, loving sister of Ruby, Stanley, Cora, and Edna.

Henry (b. London) married in 1883 to Maria ROBINSON (reg 2741). They had a son named Hy in Melbourne in 1884.

Joseph (b. Hotham) married Emily EDSALL in 1887 (reg 1199).

Possible death for John in 1919 in Surrey Hills aged 70, son of Wm & Eleanor (reg 15145).

Rebecca's husband's first wife Jane (nee BROADBENT) was the mother of the older children mentioned in the notices above (older 3 born Melb, younger 2 in Seymour):
Ada Jane 1868
Albert Hy 1871
Annie Elizabeth 1873, d. 1875 aged 17 months
George Seymour 1876
Francis 1878, 1878 aged 4 months

The Argus, Saturday 16 March 1878
BISHOP -On the 12th inst, at Seymour, after a long and painful illness, Jane, the beloved wife of Henry Bishop, head teacher of the Seymour State School, aged 29 years.

They married in Victoria in 1868; he was born in Wiltshire, she in Norfolk. Her death reg states she was 49, not 29 - though 29 seems more likely - and born in Fife (reg 6383). His parents (from death reg 1916/12216) were Jeremiah BISHOP & Jane MAIDMENT; he was 72 when he died.
Posted: 17 Nov 2012 3:00AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 17 Nov 2012 3:01AM GMT
Thank you for that. You are correct - my mistakes -
re 1881 death of Eleanor also William died in 1891 at the home of his son Joseph. I have details re the Aust. born children, also Rebecca, but want to trace the 2 London born sons and their cousin, Jane Murray, born 1839 Dublin. The Melb.Cem. grave has a (moveable)plaque possibly placed there after WW1 (the cem. has no record of this). It states-
"Also our dear son and brother JIM Killed In Action 26 Sept.
1917". I have searched NAA/Honour Roll for the 57 men named Jim or James KIA that day and haven't been able to connect to the Murrays. There is a James Murray KIA near that date but after getting his Birth. Cert he is not the one. I have also trawled "Trove".By my reckoning "Jim" may be the son of a daughter of John or Henry with an unknown surname. So it is a mystery and the plaque may even be on the wrong grave. I found the possible marraige of Henry you mention and couldn't connect to "Jim" but I will endeavour to get the Death Cert of the John Murray 1919 and hope it has details so the mystery can be solved.
Thanks again, Irene.

Posted: 17 Nov 2012 3:08AM GMT
Classification: Query
Thanks for your reply.
I am in touch with the only connection I found and we have shared our findings. Irene.


Posted: 17 Nov 2012 7:53AM GMT
Classification: Query

Name: William Murray - occ- Painter
Age: Full Age
Spouse Name: Eleanor Solomons
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 7 Jun 1848
Parish: St Botolph without Bishopsgate
Borough: City of London
Father Name: John Murray - occ- Joiner
Spouse Father Name: John Solomons - occ- Tailor
Register Type: Parish Register
address for Wm: 11 Acorn Street

Name: John Murray
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 23 Dec 1849 - born 4 Dec 1848
Father's Name: William Murray - Occ- Painter
Mother's Name: Eleanor Murray
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Botolph, Aldgate
Borough: City of London
Register Type: Parish Registers
Address; 72 Greenfield St, Commercial st East

Name: Henry Robert Murray
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 27 Oct 1850 - born 21 Sep 1850
Father's Name: William Murray - House Painter
Mother's Name: Eleanor Murray
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Botolph, Aldgate
Borough: City of London
Register Type: Parish Registers
Add:24 Gloucester, Back Church Lane

MURRAY,William M 27 1824 Painter Dublin, Ireland
MURRAY,Eleanor Wife F 27 1824 AldgateMiddlesex
MURRAY, Jane Niece F 11 1840 Dublin, Ireland
MURRAY, John Son M 2 1849 St George, Middlesex
MURRAY, Henry Son M 0 (6 MOS) 1851 St George, Middlesex
Address: 24, Glouster Buildings, Saint George In The East, The Tower Hamlets

Eleanor was with her parents, John & Phoebe, in many siblings in 1841 at:
Address: Princes Street, St Botolph Without Aldgate, London

Name: Eleanor Murray
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1824
Age: 34
Arrival Date: 1 May 1858
Arrival Port: Melbourne, Australia
Ship: Arabian

there is this as well:
Name: Ellenor Murray
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1825
Age: 33
Arrival Date: 29 Apr 1858
Arrival Port: Melbourne, Australia
Departure Port: Liverpool
Ship: Arabian
Nationality: English and Welsh
Name: John Murray
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1849
Age: 9
Arrival Date: 29 Apr 1858
Arrival Port: Melbourne, Australia
Departure Port: Liverpool
Ship: Arabian
Nationality: English and Welsh
and the others

Name: John Murray
Death Age: 70
Birth Date: abt 1849
Death Date: 5 Aug 1919
Cemetery: Box Hill
Cemetery Location: Box Hill, Victoria

Name: John Murray
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1914
State: Victoria
District: Kooyong
Subdistrict: Box Hill
not sure if Box Hill is the same area as Surrey Hills Vic, but the John above is a pastry cook living at ' The Glen' Carrington Rd, with a swag of other MURRAYs, including an Ellenor Maud MURRAY...can provide more details if this is your man

Poss passenger record for Henry - no occupation:

Name: Henry Murray
Birth Date: abt 1849
Age: 50
Port of Departure: Sydney, Australia
Arrival Date: 11 Jul 1899
Port of Arrival: Southampton, England
Ports of Voyage: Melbourne
Ship Name: Stuttgart

Name: Henry Murray
Spouse Name: Maria Robinson
Marriage Place: Victoria
Registration Place: Victoria
Registration Year: 1883
Registration number: 2741

Name: Henry Murray
Mother: Maria Robinson
Father: Henry Murray
Birth: 1884 - Melbourne, Victoria

Name: Chas Fauntelroy Murray
Father's Name: Murray
Mother's Name: Maria Robinson
Birth Place: Melbourne, Victoria
Registration Year: 1895
Registration Place: Victoria
Registration number: 5343R

this is a guess:maybe he changed his name....I haven't been able to find a birth for a man of this name( except one in the USA who died 1947, and his son 1910-1944

Name: Charles Fauntleroy Harrison
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1931
State: Victoria
District: Bourke
Subdistrict: Coburg
at 1 Rodney Ave, an Assurance Agent, with Christiana, an artist

Name: Charles Fauntleroy Harrison
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1963
State: Queensland
District: Bowman
Subdistrict: Manly
at 223 Wynnum Rd, a Joiner, with Mary Adeline Amelia Jane HARRISON

Name: Mary Adeline Amelia Jane Wright
Gender: Female
Electoral Year: 1930
State: New South Wales
District: Wentworth
Subdistrict: Clovelly
with Harry Ernest WRIGHT, retired

Name: Mary Adeline Amelia Jane Wright
Gender: Female
Electoral Year: 1954
State: New South Wales
District: Barton
Subdistrict: Rockdale
with Ernest Charles W, a mechanic-he died 1961 in Rockdale NSW

Name: Charles Fauntleroy Harrison
Electoral Year: 1919
District: Waikato
Region or Province: Waikato
at Mill Street, Hamilton NZ with Christiana, an artist

This might be Christiana's death:

Reg # Given Names Surname Father's Name Mother's Name
1956/B11908 Anna Christiana Harrison John Zettwitz Gertrude Mienett

OK - am on the right track ...

Name: Christiana Zettwitz
Electoral Year: 1914
District: Raglan
Region or Province: Waikato
living at Pukekawa, a spinster

1926/6047 Zettwitz Gertrude 91Y

a lovely article about the ZETTWITZ family:

The Argus (Melbourne, Vic. : 1848 - 1956)
Tuesday 16 August 1949

Anna Christiana Z is William;s brother - the family was living in West Derby UK in 1881 and 1901
Name: Christina ZETTWITZ
Date of departure: 16 September 1909
Port of departure: London
Passenger destination port: Wellington, New Zealand
Passenger destination: Wellington, New Zealand
Date of Birth:
Marital status: Single
Sex: Female
Occupation: None
Ship: Ionic

Date of departure: 23 August 1907
Port of departure: Liverpool
Passenger destination port: Auckland, New Zealand
Passenger destination: Auckland, New Zealand
Date of Birth: 1874 (calculated from age)
Age: 33
Marital status: Married
Sex: Female
Ship: Morayshire

Date of departure: 1 September 1910
Port of departure: London
Passenger destination port: Wellington, New Zealand
Passenger destination: Wellington, New Zealand
Date of Birth:
Marital status: Single
Sex: Male
Occupation: Joiner
The following people with the same last name travelled on this voyage: -
Mrs ZETTWITZ Page 11 of 12
Mr H ZETTWITZ Page 11 of 12
Mr J ZETTWITZ Page 11 of 12
Ship: Ruahine

finally found the marriage - ack!- took ages!

1916/2521 Christina Zettivitz Charles Fauntleroy Harrison

a marriage for a sister/daughter

1921/5266 May Zettwitz Francis St Elmo Alfonz Stieber

I may have barked up the wrong tree re Charles Fauntleroy MURRAY/HARRISON, but maybe someone else can help sort this out...

Posted: 17 Nov 2012 9:16PM GMT
Classification: Query
Hello Jocelyn, Thank you for all that info, trying to get my head around the last bits. I have the shipping records for Eleanor and children but William must have been already in Melbourne with his brother John Murray because he met them on arrival. I also have the London Census records. Would appreciate the details of the 1914 Election Roll re John Murray when you have time so I can see if he fits.
Thank you very much. Irene.
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