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Thelma Gladys Patterson

Thelma Gladys Patterson

Posted: 13 Feb 2013 4:20AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 13 Feb 2013 4:22AM GMT
Surnames: Patterson,brown,Burnside
looking for info and relatives....Thelma Gladys Patterson my gma.born 1917.. Richmond,Victoria,Australia.Had a illegitimate child...Dawn Lorraine Patterson..(Overton) born Melbourne,1937,my mum....can't find marriage details for Thelma and mums,father a Robert Burnside.mum was raised by her gma...brown(maiden name)....ggf...Patterson was of german origin.please contact if u r related....missing family link.

Re: Thelma Gladys Patterson

Posted: 13 Feb 2013 4:52AM GMT
Classification: Query
I might not be following quite rightly, but if Dawn was illegitimate, doesn't that imply that Robert Burnside and Thelma Gladys didn't marry? Or did they marry later?

do you know ggf Patterson's first name or any other details?

Re: Thelma Gladys Patterson

Posted: 13 Feb 2013 7:35AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 13 Feb 2013 7:38AM GMT
Surnames: Patterson,brown,Burnside
are you related?...who are you???...I'm Micks wife, Thelma Gladys Patterson was Micks gma.We only know what Dawn told Mick and what Mick himself remembers that was to him.We believe Thelma and Robert,weren't married when Dawn was born because I can't find anything that verifys such..maybe that's why Dawn was raised by her gma ? Patterson nee Brown.Mick was only young when he last saw his ggma,so can't recall first name.According to Dawn her parents stayed together and had other kids,we we're told of a Patricia,but there we're others but don't know their names.or if or when they mightve married.At about 14 or thereabouts,Thelma came to reclaim Dawn,but Dawn refused and stayed with her gma.At 17 Dawn met and married George James Overton.micks ggma nee brown n her husband,a german guy,who's name was changed to Patterson,his details unknown except that he was good at carpentry and was supposed to of built their house.Mick recalls they had a farm in the research vic area and that his ggf ran a Bullock team.We believe he was a german solider at one point butnot high rank and came here to escape the war.We know that the name was changed to Patterson from what we don't know but Dawn said that the german side is linked to not so good german army links and it goes to back to Wilhelm the 2nd of Prussia.We also got told that ggf Patterson n ggma nee brown spent time at Camp Pell now royal park area.We do know that after ggf Patterson died,that ggma brown moved to Eltham vic and lived with a william Charles clarence risely who died in 1971 & is buried at castlemaine..they too weren't married.we believe William was separated from his wife at the time.the farm in research was warandyte Rd.and the eltham house/property was Eltham Rd.Dawn also mentioned a uncle Russell who as story goes had a barber shop in one of the little streets in melbourne cbd..and due to thefact that he would not adhere to something that one of squizzy Taylors gfs wanted they killed him by running him down outside his shop.that's all the info we have.And not alls been confirmed.Dawn did have a photo of her dad,Robert Burnside but it was lost in a house fire so we don't know what he looks like. he must've been doing well as he was dressed rather well.Please reply and tell us who you're and what you know. Dawn also mentioned having a cousin Shirley think penninsula area but have no idea who she is. Heidi Overton/santashelper72.

Re: Thelma Gladys Patterson

Posted: 13 Feb 2013 11:15AM GMT
Classification: Query
Try looking for an inquest for a car accident/hit & run etc in Melbourne. You have a first name to go with so that's a start.

Re: Thelma Gladys Patterson

Posted: 13 Feb 2013 10:18PM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi Heidi, no I am not related, I was just making suggestions :)

Ok, to try and lay things out a bit clearer:

Unknown(m) Patterson was an alias for a German immigrant of unknown original German name. He was possibly a german soldier. He was a carpenter (house builder). There may be links to German aristocracy.


Unknown(m) Patterson married Unknown(f) Brown, and had a daughter, Thelma Gladys Patterson (b1917, Richmond, Melbourne). They lived in the Research area (Warandyte Road?). After Unknown(m) Patterson's death, Unknown(f) Brown lived in Eltham with William Charles Clarence Risely (prob no marriage, Risely buried in Castlemaine)

Thelma Gladys Patterson had a daughter, Dawn Lorraine Patterson before marrying Robert Burnside and having more children.

Dawn Lorraine Patterson maried George James Overton.


Some questions that might help pick out details:

* do you know when Unknown(m) Patterson might have died? There's no relevant Patterson buried in Warandyte cemetery..
http://mapping.fcmp.com.au:1001/Pubmapping/index.aspx

* do you know if the Unknown(m) Patterson might have applied for naturalisation at any point? If so, the National Archives might have records of it... there are 309 matches in the Naturalisation records to 'Patterson' tho, without a first name that might be a trial, especally if its speculation
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/NameSearch/Interface/NameSear...

* Is this possibly the Unknown(f) Brown?
Family Name: PATTERSON
Given Name(s): Sylvia Eileen
Event: DEATH
Father's Name:Brown Richard
Mother's Name: UNKNOWN
Age:74
Death Place: Apol
Registration Year: 1974
Registration Number:24276

Its the only exact matching record before 1980 *but* bear in mind that if the surnames aren't quite right, this might not be the right person - you probably want to check for Paterson, Browne, and possibly even Risely, if she lived with William Risely and adopted his surname...


* do you know when Robert Burnside or Thelma died? Where they were buried?

* were the Patterson/Brown folks at Camp Pell as part of the military, as german detainees, or were they there as housing after WWII? If the first two, you might be able to find information from military sources

* Dawn's uncle Russell - no idea if he was one of Thelma's brothers (an actual uncle) or one of her grandparents (Patterson or Brown)'s siblings? If it was actually a razor gang linked death, it'll be in the 1920s? If so, well before Dawn's birth, so it'll be a 2nd hand story...
You can try searching archived newspapers for details, but its a needle in a haystack without a better idea of names: http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/

For what its worth, there are no births for anyone named Thelma Gladys registered in Victoria between 1915 and 1920. I would recommend that if its practical, you go to your local council library and try to confirm any of the information you know using their genealogy records. It's going to be difficult because of the use of Patterson as an alias, but you might find at least a name or two more to help pin down some details.

If you can't make it to the library, but have a credit card, you can search online:

https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/home


hope some of this is helpful,
Damien

Re: Thelma Gladys Patterson

Posted: 13 Feb 2013 11:59PM GMT
Classification: Query
This post was deleted by the author on 18 Feb 2013 7:45PM GMT

Re: Thelma Gladys Patterson

Posted: 14 Feb 2013 12:09AM GMT
Classification: Query
This post was deleted by the author on 18 Feb 2013 7:45PM GMT

Re: Thelma Gladys Patterson

Posted: 14 Feb 2013 12:24AM GMT
Classification: Query
This post was deleted by the author on 18 Feb 2013 7:35PM GMT

Re: Thelma Gladys Patterson_thanks for suggestions etc

Posted: 14 Feb 2013 12:30AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Patterson,brown,Burnside
sorry if I haven't made things easy to read everyone...ok let's see..what we have so far is what we've been told etc so what I've put is all we know...we believe unknown male Patterson would've prob become naturalised but without a first name for him or his wife unknown brown it's hard.Don't think unknown female Patterson nee brown took riseley name.We don't know where they're buried or when they died...my hubby last seen his ggma when he was about 4, & she was pretty old by then. I appreciate everyones help etc as we are nee to this.Hence why we hope someone is related.We just got dawns birth cert and her father..Robert Burnside isn't on it,so assuming they weren't married stage time.Net we do know they had more kids later,so they mightve married later?.

Re: Thelma Gladys Patterson

Posted: 14 Feb 2013 12:40AM GMT
Classification: Query
This post was deleted by the author on 18 Feb 2013 7:35PM GMT
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