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Feiller, Kreinecker, Matzka (and variants): another "illegitimate child of nobility" mystery

Feiller, Kreinecker, Matzka (and variants): another "illegitimate child of nobility" mystery

Posted: 5 Nov 2008 2:14AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Feiler, Kreinecker, Matzka, Trimmel
In researching my husband's ancestry, we've come to a mystery regarding his grandmother's ancestors. Family stories tell that she is the daughter of "a count" from Vienna. She described him as a drunkard and a womanizer. She said her apartment overlooked St. Stephan's cathedral in Vienna.

Her maiden name was Maria Feiler. She emigrated to the US in 1900 at the age of 12: at this time she was said to be an orphan. The manifest from the ship she sailed on said her home town was Poppendorf. I have located reference to a Josef Feiler from Poppendorf via the Burgenland Bunch newsletters. My husband's family has a document showing that money was sent to a Josef Feiler in Poppendorf in 1906 (the year Maria Feiler married Janos Breitfeller in New York).

Maria's half-brother emigrated to the US in 1922. His name was Lorenz Kreinecker, from Vienna. He is said to have had a letter opener with the family crest, which he sold during hard times. On his incoming manifest, he listed Josephine Matzka as his mother, living at Schutzengasse 16, Vienna.

Between 1900 and 1906, Maria Feiler lived in Milwaukee with the Trimmel family, said to be her uncle. He ran a hotel, and she washed dishes for the restaurant. She is listed on the 1905 census as Maria Pheiler, a servant in the household.

Maria's cousin Rose (don't know maiden name) married Janos Breitfeller's brother, Ferenc. Rose's family was said to have raised Lippezzaner stallions, just north of Vienna.

As you can tell, I have come to several dead ends. If anyone has insight for me, I would greatly appreciate the help!!

Re: Feiller, Kreinecker, Matzka (and variants): another "illegitimate child of nobility" mystery

Posted: 5 Nov 2008 6:26PM GMT
Classification: Query
From Ancestry.com, there is a picture of the Feiller family crest (from Hungary). Note that from the current location of Poppendorf today in Austria, that in the timeframe she was born, it was likely in Hungary (within the larger Austro-Hungarian empire).

Text on the crest:

Ich brach Sie mir unter Truemmern.

From the written entry about the crest:

Ungar. Indigenat d.d. 1840 - Gesetz Art 48 - fuer Franz Xav. Feiller, in Ansehung erworbener Verdienste, gelegentlich der Ueberschewemming im J. 1838 in Pesth. (L.R. sub Nr. 15726).

Perhaps someone on this list whose German is better than mine can give you a transalation of the above.

Re: Feiller, Kreinecker, Matzka (and variants): another "illegitimate child of nobility" mystery

Posted: 6 Nov 2008 3:31AM GMT
Classification: Query
Where did you find Maria Feiler's ship manifest of 1900? There is an arrival record of 1900 at www.ellisislandrecords.org, but this is of a Marie Feiller, age 12, from Körtvelyes. This place might be Eltendorf near Poppendorf, but it would not be Poppendorf.

What is the source of your statement that Lorenz Kreinecker was Maria's half-brother? Does your husband or his family have a document indicating that?

Could you scan and post the document about a money transfer in 1906?

You need to sort and document what you know, so that we could come up with suggestions for your further search.

Re: Feiller, Kreinecker, Matzka (and variants): another "illegitimate child of nobility" mystery

Posted: 7 Nov 2008 12:36AM GMT
Classification: Query
Eileen and Fritzkoe
Thanks for your replies! Eileen - thanks for the heraldry info -- I"ll have to dig up someone to translate it for me!!
Fritzkoe, thanks for your info. I'll have to go to the Ellis Island website -- my source is on Ancestry, the Hamburg Passenger list (although I did not find the incoming New York manifest). The ship was the Pennsylvania, departure date 11 Feb 1900.

As for Lorenz, my sister-in-law remembers Maria calling him "her brother". My in laws visited the Kreinecker's often, and told stories about their history. Lorenz was said to have had an item with the "family crest" on it, which he sold, to Maria's annoyance. I don't think we have any documents.

As to the money transfer, my sister in law has it in New York. I don't think they can scan it, but if you have any specific questions, I can ask her.

Thanks for your help!!

PS - Since I posted my initial message, I have found another thread that documents Feilers in Poppendorf who relocated to Milwaukee at the same time as Maria. They are clearly the same family: Andrew Feiler and Maria Meier had 4 daughters: Theresa, Maria, Julia and Nailla (?sp). Theresa married John Imp, moved to Milwaukee and had 12 children. Maria married Samuel Trimmel, had a son named Gustav and also moved to Milwaukee. I have found evidence of both of these families. Our Maria Feiler lived with the Trimmels from 1900 to 1906 (evidence in the 1905 Wisconsin census), and the Trimmels and the Imps were known to my husband's family as relatives. I can't find evidence of Julia or Nailla (although one of Theresa's daughters is named Julia). Could these have been Maria Feiler's mothers?

Re: Feiller, Kreinecker, Matzka (and variants): another "illegitimate child of nobility" mystery

Posted: 9 Nov 2008 12:42AM GMT
Classification: Query
You need to search for the birth record of Maria Feiler or Feiller in the church records for Poppendorf and nearby areas. On cursory glance, I cannot find a Maria Feiler born in and around years 1887/88 either in the r.c. parish records of Heiligenkreuz (which was the parish for Poppendorf) or Königsdorf which was the r.c. parish for Eltendorf and Zahling (Körtvelyes). Could Maria have been born into a Lutheran family? If so, please check the related birth records of Eltendorf which served Lutherans in Poppendorf as well.

Kreinecker does not sound like a name present in and around Poppendorf. I recommend that you consider checking the residency records (Meldezettel) of Vienna. The residency records of the early 20th century most of the time contain the birth date and place of the person. Check also for the name Matzka. Even if Lorenz was born in Vienna, his parents may have moved there from their home town.

Re: Feiller, Kreinecker, Matzka (and variants): another "illegitimate child of nobility" mystery

Posted: 9 Nov 2008 4:38AM GMT
Classification: Query
Wow! Where do you find these databases??
If the family legend is true, then I believe that Maria Feiller/Feiler would have been born in Vienna. Also, the family states that the Kreineckers are "German" as opposed to "Austrian", so presumably Lorenz's mother came from a different part of the Empire (Bohemia?). In any event, the Viennese residency records might be a good place to start. At the risk of showing my ignorance, where can I find them? I've been searching a number of Austrian websites, but, as I don't read German, I'm not sure if I've seen these...

Thanks so much for your help!!

Nancy

Re: Feiller, Kreinecker, Matzka (and variants): another "illegitimate child of nobility" mystery

Posted: 9 Nov 2008 6:21PM GMT
Classification: Query
Most of the vast holdings of the LDS Family History Library cannot be accessed by the web. Only the index of the holdings is available. You would need to identify film numbers and then order the films on loan at an LDS Library near you.

The web site for the place index is at http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.a...

Enter Heiligenkreuz, Eltendorf and Konigsdorf as place names and see what you'll get.

For the residency records of Vienna, enter Wien as the place name. From the long list you will get, click Wien in Niederosterreich, Austria. In the index for Vienna/Wien, click Population, then Meldezettel (male and female) for 1850-1928. The Meldezettel cover really only about 1898 till 1923, but this would be the key period for you anyway.

You will be overwhelmed by the amount of films and the length of the index. Read well the explanation of the filing system. If you do order films, you will inevitably often order the wrong ones. It happened to me many times. Searching will consume much time. If you decide to go through this, I'll be happy to give you more advice.

Alternatively, you could try to e-mail to the Wiener Stadt- und Landesarchiv. Ask whether they could search the residency records for your Kreinecker and Matzka relatives. The e-mail address I have at the archive's web site is post@ma08.wien.gov.at . The web site itself is at http://www.wien.gv.at/english/history/archives/ancestors.htm...

Have you considered hiring a professional genealogist?

Re: Feiller, Kreinecker, Matzka (and variants): another "illegitimate child of nobility" mystery

Posted: 10 Nov 2008 2:15AM GMT
Classification: Query
Thanks for your help. It may come to hiring professional help, but right now I'm having fun learning all this stuff.

I'll post it if I find anything interesting.

Nancy

Re: Feiller, Kreinecker, Matzka (and variants): another "illegitimate child of nobility" mystery

Posted: 11 Nov 2008 3:47AM GMT
Classification: Query
The manifest can be found under Feiller. The first name, Maria, is mistranscribed. The ship is the Pennsylvania which sailed in Feb. 1900, just in line with your information. The manifest says that Maria was living in Körtvelyes which most likely means Eltendorf, less likely Zahling. Both places are near Poppendorf, but they are not Poppendorf.

As to the first name Nailla, could this be a misreading of Cäcilia?

You say that Maria Feiler was an orphan. If so, who would be Josef Feiler? What does the family lore say about her passage in 1900? Did she travel with an adult who looked over her, or did she travel alone as the manifest suggests?

Re: Feiller, Kreinecker, Matzka (and variants): another "illegitimate child of nobility" mystery

Posted: 11 Nov 2008 9:17PM GMT
Classification: Query
Fritz,

Thank you for your reply!

This is what I know about Maria Feiler's crossing in Feb. 1900 on the Pennsylvania. The "Hamburg Passenger Lists" shows her as coming from Poppendorf. The "New York Passenger Lists" shows her last residence as Kortvelyes, most likely Eltendorf. I don't read German, but is it possible that the Hamburg list shows "where are you from" instead of "where was your last residence"? My theory is that her family is from Poppendorf, but when she was orphaned, she lived with an aunt/uncle/cousin in Eltendorf before she came to America??

My source for the "Nailla" (also written as "Nazilla") is another Ancestry.com message board posting under the surname board of "Feiler". (See the posting titled "Andrew Feiler Mary (or Maria) Maier" by J Marot). I have no idea what the poster's source info is, so I have to take some of the info with a grain of salt. I can, however, verify some of his information. Theresa and John Imp came to the US from Austria in 1898 (don't yet have manifest info), settled in Milwaukee and had many children. My family knew the Imps. Maria and Samuel Trimmel had a son named Gustav, settled in Milwaukee and it is with them that Maria Feiler lived until her marriage. She called them "aunt" and "uncle".

I cannot find a Julia Feiler Bauer or Kurtz that came to the US, although Theresa Imp had a daughter who married a Bauer in Milwaukee. I wonder if the poster's information found her instad of a more senior Julia. I have absolutely no evidence of a Nailla or Nazilla. Certainly, it could be a Cacilia - have you found a Cacilia Feiler??

Our thought was that Josef might be a brother of Theresa and Maria Feiler Trimmel that was omitted from the Andrew Feiler posting. We have found many Josef Feilers - it is hard to figure out which one would be "the" one - but since my husband's grandfather and grandmother (Maria Feiler Breitfeller) sent money to him several times, we assume he must be a fairly close relative.

As to her passage, I will repost a reply after I have spoken to my sister-in-law about family lore, but we have found 2 possible answers in the manifests. On the Hamburg manifest, there is a marking that indicates that 2 or 3 other passengers were travelling with Maria. It is difficult to read these names, but they seem to be: Javarga Blaszak, Leiser Dressler, and Chane Graup, all adults. I can find no connection between these people and the Feilers - could one have been contracted to escort her to Milwaukee?

More promising, on the arrival manifest, there is a Carl Maper or Meyer listed near her, also from Poppendorf also going to Milwaukee. Interestingly here Maria said she was going to visit her aunt Emilie Failler or Failles. Carl listed an uncle Hnra, similar last name, as his destination. I have not been able to locate this family except for two instances. 1) A Carl Meirer was listed as living with the Trimmels as a boarder in 1910 (I can't find him in the 1905 Milwaukee census).

2) I found an incoming manifest from 1893 (Westernland from Antwerp, May 1983) which shows an Emilie and a Maria Failes, both 17, coming to the US with a destination of NY. They list their nationality as German, and their last residence as Heitzkofen. To the best of my knowledge, Heitzkofen does not exist, but there is a Zeitzkofen seminary (convent?) in Germany. This seems a long shot because they were listed as German rather than Hungarian or Austrian citizens, but it is interesting because of the name.

As you can see, I am trying to weave cloth from many stray strands. Any guidance you can give would be greatly appreciated!!

Nancy
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