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Preferred census entry for Second site?

Preferred census entry for Second site?

Posted: 14 Aug 2007 6:50PM GMT
Classification: Query
I am a new user of SS.
My census entries in TMG to date have been inconsistent.
Originally due to limitations of my genealogy software I treated a census as a source, with the transcribed text of the census as a memo.
Upton changing to generations O switched and used census as an event in its own right, using Caroline's separate UK census tabs for UK census. I began to put the details in the Memo field of the tag. I copied the tag to each perspon present, regardless of their status in the household.

Recently I began to use the Witness and role facility and to enter children and other relatives present using the Witness/role facility.

Second site seems to show some "role" census appearances, sometimes without the place details.

How does SS handle roles such as son?
Are roles included in Witness events?
Are places included in witness events?

How do experienced users suggest that one enters censuses to get a clear report?
I'd be grateful for guidance.

Re: Preferred census entry for Second site?

Posted: 14 Aug 2007 8:46PM GMT
Classification: Query
Second Site (SS) handles roles, witnesses, and places the same as TMG with one notable exception: Second Site has inclusion/exclusion logic that can prevent someone from appearing anywhere on the site. If you include _all people_ from your project in your site, then SS will mimic TMG. If you only include a subset, then things get more involved.

First, there are 4 options in the People section that determine whether SS will show the names of excluded people. The options are "Show Excluded Parents", "Show Excluded Principals", "Show Excluded Children", and "Show Excluded Witnesses". If you check all of those boxes, then the results will be pretty similar to TMG.

Also, SS has a "Suppress Details for Living People" option. If you included Living people, and if Suppress Details for Living People is set, then events for living people (Living flag=Y or ?) will not appear (if they are a principal) or they will not be included as a witness (if they are a witness only).

My guess is that you have living people in your TMG project and your SS site is set to Exclude Living.

John

Re: Preferred census entry for Second site?

Posted: 15 Aug 2007 2:10PM GMT
Classification: Query
Dear John,
Thank you for your reply and explanation. You are right that I have SS set to exclude the living. But I havent got as far as wanting to show witnesses on the census entry for the Head of House. I am in the very early stages of exploring SS and am using one individual who lived 1897-1942 as a guinea pig to teach myself SS. My assumtion is that if I can get one individual right, I can sort out everyone else.

To date I have used TMG for research only, so my first task was to tidy up his TMG record and use sentences to get a narrative individual report in TMG.
I then generated a default SS report and found the census entry (role of son in his father’s 1901 census) missing. That was why I asked if SS handles roles etc.

If I may, I’d like ask about some of the differences between the TMG and SS reports I generated.
The indivdual narrative report in TMG is currently just about what I want, though, as in SS, I have some extra commas in the loactions fields:-
Albert Victor Haigh (38) was born on 5 Nov 1897 at Horbury Road, Ossett, Yorkshire. , , He was known as Victor (38) in the family. He was listed as a son in the household of Walter Haigh (7) and Emily Moss (6) in the 1901 census at Horbury Rd, Ossett, Yorkshire. Between 1914 and 1918 during World War 1, according to his sister Dorothy, he served in the artillery. He returned but did not get on with the family and moved as far away as possible, first to Penzance and later to Plymouth. He was an amateur actor with the Penzance Players. There is a photo of him in costume and an engraved pewter mug presented to him by the Players, possibly as a leaving present in 1938 at Penzance, Cornwall.
He died on 21 Mar 1941 at Midland Bank, Bedford Street, Plymouth, Devon, in an enemy air raid while fire watching. The war memorial lists him as Victor, aged 43, Firewatcher of 2 The Crescent, son of Walter and Emily Haigh of Wynfield, Ossett, Yorkshire killed on 21 March 1941, at the Midland Bank, Bedford Street. , He was buried in 1941 at Civilian War Dead Burial, Plymouth, Devon.
Research notes
No baptism record found in Ossett Library when CCW located others.
His war record 1914-1918 has not been found on the PRO pension database.

The following is the SS output(plus the photo which is fine) with everything at default except places set to four fields to omit the country.

Albert Victor Haigh was born on 5 November 1897 at Horbury Road, Ossett, Yorkshire, .1,2,3 He was the son of Walter Haigh and Emily Moss. Albert Victor Haigh also went by the name of Victor in the family. He began military service between 1914 and 1918 during World War 1, according to his sister Dorothy, he served in the artillery. He returned but did not get on with the family and moved as far away as possible, first to Penzance and later to Plymouth. He was an amateur actor with the Penzance Players. There is a photo of him in costume and an engraved pewter mug presented to him by the Players, possibly as a leaving present in 1938 at Penzance, Cornwall, . He died on 21 March 1941 at Bedford Street, Plymouth, Devon, , at age 43; in an enemy air raid while fire watching. The war memorial lists him as Victor, aged 43, Firewatcher of 2 The Crescent, son of Walter and Emily Haigh of Wynfield, Ossett, Yorkshire killed on 21 March 1941, at the Midland Bank, Bedford Street.4,5 He was buried in 1941 at Plymouth, Devon, .5 He Research notes
No baptism record found in Ossett Library when CCW located others.
His war record 1914-1918 has not been found on the PRO pension database.

As you can see, the census entry is not there. His siblings also lack the 1901 census entries (their father's entry) at which they were sons.
Apart from that I have not mastered several things in SS.
In the nickname tag, SS inserts “also” known as Victor. Whereas I use the tag to show that the person’s second forename was the one he was known by, i.e. This was “Uncle Victor”.
SS has lost the carriage return at the end of the burial tag and before the research Notes.
And I have an extraneous pronoun “He” before my research notes “Note” tag.
The punctuation has an extra ; after the date, and even though I set SS not to show the country, I have not got rid of the extra commas by empty location fields.

I am hoping to get Albert Victor Haigh’s SS entry perfect and to understand how to use SS. Once I have him right, I can save the Style and set everyone else up in TMG exactly the same.

I'd be glad of any further guidance or suggestions.

PS My husband is very glad SS can be set for UK English but I havent done that yet.








Re: Preferred census entry for Second site?

Posted: 15 Aug 2007 3:45PM GMT
Classification: Query
Apologies. Please ignore the above. Half an hour after posting the above, I altered the language in SS to EnglishUK and redid the site.
This Albert Victor Hague's entry came out fine. With the census entry there and the carriage return etc, just about identical to the TMG report.

But I am certain that I didnt re-edit his TMG entry at all. I am still in the dark as to why I dont see what is there? Am I actually seeing the true state of my SS site or is my aol browser hanging onto an old browser image. How could the census entry be missing time after time? And yet now turn up, correct after all?

Is it that SS is not grabbing new data each time?

Of course I am very pleased. But I remain feeling a bit stupid.

Re: Preferred census entry for Second site?

Posted: 15 Aug 2007 3:57PM GMT
Classification: Query
I suspect the problem is that you are using EnglishUK in TMG but EnglishUS in Second Site.

If you have the language set in TMG on the File > Language setting to EnglishUK, then the sentences you edit or create will by default be the EnglishUK sentences, not the EnglishUS ones.

If you make your site with the Sentence Language set to EnglishUS it will not use those EnglishUK sentences. Changing the Sentence Language in Second Site, as I believe you did, should fix that.

Terry Reigel

Re: Preferred census entry for Second site?

Posted: 15 Aug 2007 8:57PM GMT
Classification: Query
As I said above, Second Site uses TMG's sentences and roles, but both TMG and SS have language settings that determine which sentences are used, so you need to make sure that when you compare TMG output to Second Site output you are using the same language in both.

Second Site does "grab new data" ... it reads your TMG project each time to make the site.

Re: Preferred census entry for Second site?

Posted: 15 Aug 2007 9:24PM GMT
Classification: Query
Thanks to you both Terry and John.
It would never have entered my head that a whole tag could be omitted just because the version of English was different.

We didnt even understand that the SS default English was American, till my husband noticed woolen was spelled the American way.
At least it all makes sense now. Thanks again.


Re: Preferred census entry for Second site?

Posted: 17 Aug 2007 5:54PM GMT
Classification: Query
John - I am really sorry, but I have stil not mastered this.

In TMG individual narrative reports, I have the census entries showing up as I want them. The head of house and his wife have a full entry for the census TAG with a Memo. But where an individual has appeared only in the "witness" roles of son, daughter etc, the sentence in their report just gives date and place. The Memo is not repeated.

Second Site is not replicating my TMG report, but adds an unwanted memo to witnessed Census events.

Is there anything one can do about this? Apart from deleting all memos to the census tags?

Re: Preferred census entry for Second site?

Posted: 17 Aug 2007 6:50PM GMT
Classification: Query
By default, Second Site appends the memo to sentences that do not include the [M] variable. That mimics an option in TMG that does the same thing. Evidently, in TMG you have turned off that option. So, in Second Site, you should also turn that option off. The option is in the memo section, "Add Memo to Sentence." Set it to "Do Not Append" and that should solve the problem for you.

Re: Preferred census entry for Second site?

Posted: 20 Aug 2007 12:33PM GMT
Classification: Query
Thanks John. This is a double learning curve for me. I mis-understood the import of the option re memos (and also dates.) I havent thanked you sooner because I've been working to tidy up the TMG file and not going back to SS all the time.

I still havent worked out how to save my settings in SS, i.e. when the site (style) options and UK English language are preserved and when not. Ditto when the actual data is updated and recaptured, but I think I am getting there. Don't answer this. Just leave me to play with it for a couple of weeks and I guess I'll be fine.
And if I am not, I will ask again.
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