Search for content in message boards

CRIBB / NEWHAM, Clapham & Merton

CRIBB / NEWHAM, Clapham & Merton

Yvonne Foster (View posts)
Posted: 11 Aug 2001 1:38AM GMT
Edited: 19 Jan 2007 10:55AM GMT
Surnames: Cribb, Newham, Asprey
I am looking for connections to Thomas Cribb who marr.1792 Clapham, Sry. to Ann Newham, their dtr. Ann b.abt 1798 Merton, marr. Edward Asprey in Mitcham, Sry.
Any help greatly appreciated,
Hopefully, Yvonne.

Re: CRIBB / NEWHAM, Clapham & Merton

Posted: 17 Dec 2001 3:08PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 19 Jan 2007 10:56AM GMT
Yvonne,
Being interested in the Cribb name generally and having read your message board notice, I wonder if you are aware of the following. I do not know if it was Ann Newham's husband but a Thomas Cribb was Lord Nelson's head gardener at his house in Merton in 1805. He was clearly a man of some
importance to Nelson who discussed with him directly what work was planned and required for the estate. According to biographer Christopher Hibbert in his personal history of Nelson, Thomas Cribb informed the vice-admiral about
September 1805 that Mrs Cribb was about to give birth to her first child [Hibbert does not state which Mrs Cribb, obviously assuming it was his wife]. Nelson, who was fond of children, gave him some money for the christening gown, asking him to name the child Horatio if it was a boy and Emma if it was a girl. From the IGI, Ann Newham had what seems to be her 8th
child baptised as Mary on 20 October 1805 at Merton, the day before Nelson was killed at the Battle of Trafalgar. An Emma Cribb was baptised at Wimbledon 24 November 1805, the daughter of Francis Cribb and Hannah, although this was by no means her first child either. Merton and Wimbledon
are adjacent parishes a very short walk apart. They are now of course part of South London's urban sprawl, but were then surrounded by open fields. Mitcham is the next one on. The two Cribb families mentioned are highly likely to have been related as there were few Cribbs in Surrey at the time. Thomas Cribb married Ann Newham, 10 Jan 1792 in Clapham Holy Trinity (a mile or two up the road towards London and probably Ann's parish of residence before marriage). An Ann Cribb married Edward Asprey, 18 Jul 1819 in Southwark St. George.If you were not aware of this already I hope it is of some interest to you.
Bob.

Re: CRIBB / NEWHAM, Clapham & Merton

Yvonne Foster (View posts)
Posted: 18 Dec 2001 3:00AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 19 Jan 2007 10:57AM GMT
Hi Bob,
Thanks so much for the information on the Cribbs associated with Lord Nelson, it is very much appreciated, it is quite a fascinating account.
I had already included Francis & Hannah in the Cribb line, but haven't got proof of it as yet, but it seems very likely it's the same family; I have Francis' parents as Thomas & Elizabeth, so it's possible this Thomas may have worked for Nelson also, but he would have been retiring age about 1805 & as my Thomas is the only other one I have found in the area around that time, it is very likely he's the one.
Ann Cribb who married Edward Asprey is my 3 x Gt.g'mother., & Edward Asprey is of the same line as the Bond St. Jewellers.
If you are interested I can e-mail you a Genealogy Report on the Cribbs, but I don't have much more on them than the IGI has at present, but it will give the descendants of Thomas & Ann Newham.
Thanks again for your help,
Kind Regards, Yvonne

Re: CRIBB / NEWHAM, Clapham & Merton

Posted: 31 Aug 2011 11:11PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Cribb, Ladd, Hudson, Nelson
There were two Cribb brothers who worked as gardeners for Nelson at Merton Place,Thomas and Francis. In respect of the christening robe story, the gardener having the child was Francis and the child was Emma. The Merton Historical Society have it right in the following:

http://dev.mertonhistoricalsociety.org.uk/doc_library/nelson...
[ MERTON HISTORICAL SOCIETY:
TRAFALGAR BICENTENARY 1805-2005 NELSON AT MERTON
Extract:
Finally Nelson obtained leave to return home briefly. He arrived at Merton at 6 am on Tuesday 20 August 1805. Emma had hastily collected Horatia and Nelson’s family the day before, and was ready to greet him.
Between visits to town to the Admiralty, the Foreign Office and the Prime Minister, Nelson filled these precious days with family parties, visiting and receiving friends, settling bills and planning for the future. His friend Davison promised to advance the money to pay for the next lot of work at Merton. And he made his gardener Francis Cribb, whose wife was expecting a baby, promise to call it Horatio or Emma (it was Emma), and gave him money for a christening robe. ]


From my research:
This Emma Cribb, born to parents Francis and Anne [or Hannah] Cribb) was christened: 24 Nov 1805 at Wimbledon, Surrey [Ref IGI]. She later married Henry Ladd who was also a gardener. (IGI has marriage date 29 Nov 1824 at Saint Mary, Newington, Surrey).

In 1841 Henry and Emma, together with 5 children (Henry, Emma, Alfred, William and Maria) were living at Nelson’s Fields, Merton (the site of Nelson’s house Merton Place which was demolished c1820).
Living nearby, also in Nelson’s Fields, was Emma’s sister Maria (nee Cribb, christened 07 May 1797, Wimbledon) who had married James Hudson (an engraver) on 23 Sep 1816 at Saint Mary, Newington, Surrey (ref IGI). In 1841 they had 6 children living with them. However in total James and Maria had 13 children, some having left home and others died. One of the ones who had left home was Emma Hudson, born 1820? and baptised 20 Apr 1823 Mitcham. My wife is descended from this Emma Hudson.
We like to think that this Emma was named after her nearby aunt Emma, who was named after Nelson’s Emma !

We have the following newspaper story about James Hudson written in 1888:
“ There is still living at Merton, Surrey, an old man named Hudson, one of the last survivors of those who knew Lord Nelson in the flesh. He is still hale and hearty, though nearly 96 years old, and in possession of all his faculties, if I except a slight dullness in hearing. He sits in his armchair and chats' about "the Admiral" as he styles him, and walks about his garden on sunny days, and smokes his pipe. He was born on the Merton estate, and has lived all his days in one of the two cottages at the bottom of the lane leading down from the " Nelson Arms " to the back of Merton Abbey.
His wife was a daughter of Nelson's gardener, Cribb, and be himself as a boy was employed about the gardens of Sir William and Lady Hamilton, and in running on messages and fetching parcels from the stage wagon. He well recollects seeing Nelson fishing in the river Wandle near the old Abbey mill, and sauntering with Sir William and his wife about the pretty grounds, which were intersected by an artificial canal which Nelson called: "the Nile," and which at that time extended on both sides of the high road. Hudson witnessed the final departure of Lord Nelson from the house on the 13th of September, 1805, just a month before his death at Trafalgar ; and on that occasion shut the door of the post-chaise in which be left, receiving from him a cordial grip of the hand with a word of counsel, “Be a good boy till I come back again."
" But he never has come back," says old Hudson, " and I don't think he ever will." He still points out, at the bottom of his little garden, the rivulet which -used to feed " the Nile," though it now flows in a diminished stream, and contains not a single minnow.
Hudson says that the cottage in which he lives, and its neighbour also, form a pair built by order of Lord Nelson for his coachman-and his gardener, so thoroughly had a company of goods been established between him and his host and hostess ; and he points with pride to the fact that the mulberry tree on his little grass plot was planted there by the order of Lord Nelson himself. Over the mantelpiece of his little dwelling is a mirror in a heavy gilt frame, which, he tells his visitors, once formed part. of the ornamental furniture of "Nelson's room" in Merton Place, and is his only tangible relic. The Admiral, he says, was very much beloved at Merton ; he would often stop and speak kindly to the boys who were at play in the street, and who regarded his weather-beaten form and features with all the more reverence, and all the more pleasure, because of the fruit and the pence which be would bestow on the youngsters . It is well, perhaps, to add that, though he has lately lost his wife, at an age little short of his own; Hudson is fairly well off, and carefully provided for, so that there is no need of an appeal to the public for support in his old age ;and to judge from his present state of health there seems to be no reason why he should not live to become a centenarian."
James Hudson died in Merton a year later, in 1899.

Ian



Re: CRIBB / NEWHAM, Clapham & Merton

Posted: 1 Sep 2011 5:22AM GMT
Classification: Query
Hello Ian,

Thanks for the extra information on the Cribb / Hudson connection, it is very much appreciated.

The article on James Hudson was very interesting also.

I have just found another reference to the James Hudson line from a descendant in Tasmania, Australia on Rootsweb, ..... she may have changed her e-mail address by now, but a reply in Rootsweb may get a reply; you will find her post here: ....

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/ENG-SURREY/200...

Regards,
Yvonne



Re: CRIBB / NEWHAM, Clapham & Merton

Posted: 5 Sep 2011 4:21PM GMT
Classification: Query
Yvonne
Thank you for the info about the other post (dated 2001) re James Hudson.
Sadly since the post was Archived it is not possible to reply to it. Also, the email address given for Margot Wells, Hobart Tasmania is no longer valid.

Ian

Re: CRIBB / NEWHAM, Clapham & Merton

Posted: 5 Sep 2011 11:21PM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi Ian,

I found Margot via Google & have her new email, so if you contact me I will pass it on,

Regards, Yvonne

Re: CRIBB / NEWHAM, Clapham & Merton

Posted: 13 Sep 2011 10:30PM GMT
Classification: Query
Have a William francis asprey born 1823, in Mitcham, Surrey, can anyone help me find which of the Asprey branch of the family he belonged to?
Liz

Re: CRIBB / NEWHAM, Clapham & Merton

Posted: 24 Nov 2011 12:33AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Hudson. Cribb
Hi Ian,
I am Margot Wells living in Tasmania and a descendant of James Hudson. James and Maria's two sons Frank and Matthew came to Australia and Frank was my Great Grandfather.
He purchases land that reminded him of Merton on his way between the goldfields of Bendigo and Melbourne (Victoria) for supplies. It is named Merton Park and still owned by Hudson descendants.
Regards Margot

Re: CRIBB / NEWHAM, Clapham & Merton

Posted: 24 Nov 2011 4:00PM GMT
Classification: Biography
Surnames: Hudson, Treen
Hi Margot,
Nice to hear from you. My wife, your distant cousin, sends greetings.
We had wondered what became of Frank and Matthew Hudson after 1851 when the Census showed them living at home in Merton. It is highly relevant to us(see below) to find that they had emigrated to Australia.

Their elder sister Emma Hudson born c1820 does not appear on the Merton Census of 1841 or 1851 since by 1841 she was living near to Clapham Common where she was a servant, aged 22. As a result of unfortunate circumstances that I will skip for now, she had 4 illegitimate children. Augustus Clarkson Hudson b. 1841, Matthew Hudson, b. 1844, Richard Hudson, b.1847 and Jessy (Jessie) Hudson, b.1849. (It is presumably no coincidence that two of the names were the same as brothers of Emma).

Augustus Clarkson Hudson was trained as a butcher and emigrated to Australia, possibly inspired by the presence their of his two uncles (we think he arrived in Brisbane in November 1868 on the ship Storm King). He became established as a butcher in Sydney. In 1898 he went missing and a Police Gazette notice describes him as follows. “ Missing Friends: Augustus Clarkson Hudson, age 56 years, height 5ft 3in, dark hair, medium grey beard cut close, blue eyes, Roman nose, thin visage, heavy eyebrows, all teeth false, has a hearty laugh, quiet manner, rather fond of drink, a butcher.” We are not aware that he was ever found after this.

Jessy (Jessie) Hudson followed her brother to Australia in 1882 when she was aged 33 (though the ships manifest says 24 ! – did she deceive in order to get an assisted passage ?. She arrived in Melbourne on the Carpathian on 25 December 1882. By June 1883 she was in Sydney where she advertised in an attempt to find her brother: “AUGUSTUS C. HUDSON, last heard of at Ravenswood, June, 1882; left there in August, intending to go to Herberton. If living, communicate with your anxious SISTER, arrived from England Ist January.”
Jessy remained in Sydney, marrying in 1890 Vincent Treen. They had one child William Augustus Treen b. 1891 and later lived in the Hunter's Hill suburb of Sydney, where I believe descendents still live. Jessy Treen (nee Hudson) died in Hunter's Hill in 1936. The NSW Death Index lists her father’s name as James (since she was illegitimate, she had presumably used her grandfather’s name)and her mother’s name as Emma.

Matthew Hudson, my wife’s great-grandfather, remained in England. He was trained for service in the Merchant Navy by the charitable Marine Society, and later joined the London City Mission, where he served in some of the most destitute areas of London until 1880.
per page

Find a board about a specific topic