I have been searching for many years for my grt,grt,grt,gran
.Here is what I have;-
"John MUIR(mar) "Catherine Mary Wilkieson" 12July,1833
Kilmarnock,looking for children born after 1833,parents of
'John & Catherine Mary'??
My next query is marriage of my 'grt,grt,granparents;-
'John Muir'(mar)'Mary Bennett' ?? Kilmarnock, John was a 'Shoemaker' I have found 'four-children' John,Alexander,
Robert,Margaret(b)12Aug1857 she married "Robert Thomson"
Apr,1877.Barony,Glasgow.they are my 'grt-granparents',,,,
Could someone look-up 'Kilmarnock-Census' and tell me where
the connection is between these two 'John Muir'families,???
The name 'Catherine Mary' was carried down two more
generations in my family, however there is a mix up with
Any help gratefully appreciated to clear up a mystery,,!!
I think you have a mix up in your family.
John Muir, and Catherine Mary Wilkieson, had one child whos actual birth was registered, she was Margaret Muir, born 12/Aug/1857. kilmarnock, to parents John Bennet Muir, and Catherine Mary Wilkieson.
This John Bennet Muir, was a Shoemaker, they had three other children John Muir, born about 1849, Alexander Muir, born about 1852, Robert Muir, born about 1853, i cannot see any births for these three children, but prior to Statuary Registration which began in Scotland, 1855. it was not compulsory to register births.
It is quite strange that this couple were married in 1833. and their first child is not born till about 1849, perhaps they had other children who died in between the census years
I can see who looks very much like the family in 1841,1851, and 1861 census, the only confusion is that Catherine, uses her second name Mary, on the 1841. and 1861. census.
1841. census Kilmarnock. Address Titchfield Street.
Muir John B. M. age 30 years, Shoe Maker, born outside Census County,
Muir Mary B. F, age 30 years, born Ireland.
The B. after John's, first name could be short for Bennet,the only problem is Mary, has a B. after her first name to.
1851. census Kilmarnock, this is only a index so does not give much information,
Muir John age 40 Kilmarnock,
Muir Catherine. M. age 39 years, Kilmarnock,
Muir John, age 2 years, Kilmarnock.
1861. census Kilmarnock, again only the index but gives place of birth.
Muir John, age 51. born Stranraer.
Muir Mary, age 50 years, born Ireland,
Muir John, age 12 years, born Kilmarnock,
Muir Alexander, age 9 years, born Kilmarnock,
Muir Robert, age 7 years, born Kilmarnock,
Muir Margaret, age 3 years, born Kilmarnock.
Hope this is some assistance to your research.
Thank you so much for your reply to my query. Yes there is quite a mix up in year/dates,I have been trying to sort it out for years,!! Another thing does not surprise me is that
'Catherine Mary' would use the name 'Mary' only, future
generations of the name were called,"Katie Mary" and two
plain old "Mary"!!!!!
I am so pleased to have the info from the 'Census' and see
C.Mary(b)Ireland and John(b) Stranraer,it gives me an idea
where to look for 'parents'I cannot figure out the 1833
marriage date to the children either,maybe it was the person taking down the info,????
Daughter "Margaret"(b)1857(mar)"Robert Thomson" Apr/1877
Barony,Glas.they were my grt.granparents and I have their marriage/cert. Margaret makes only her X-mark for name,but
gives parents as 'John Muir & Mary Bennett" father shoemaker and both deceased in 1877,,,so the mystery goes on
Margaret was living at 6 Muslin St,Bridgeton,Dist and works
as a "Cotton Powerloom Weaver" Robert Thomson lived at 2
Muslin St,"Cabinetmaker-Journeyman" so I guess that is how they met. They only had 2 children,my granfather "John"(b)
July/1877 sister "Katie Mary Thomson"(b)Sept,1880 Ihave no
death date for 'Margaret' but for 'Robert'June 1921.
I was wondering Jonn if perhaps neither parents could read/write and with 'C/Mary' Irish accent the names could
easily get mixed up,??
Thank you again Jonn for finding my ancestors,I know who to call on next time I'm 'stuck',,bye for now
I think that Margaret Muir, gave the wrong mothers maiden name on her marriage to Robert Thomson, ie Bennet, instead of Wilkieson.
Bennet, was her fathers middle name. ie John Bennet Muir.
It seems John Bennet Muir, died 1863, aged 53 years, Kilmarnock, Ayr.
This being the case it would leave Catherine Mary, with young children, ie your Margaret, would be only 6 years old at her fathers death, i have found it difficult to find what remains of the family together on the 1871 census. its possible Margaret, was put into care at this period.
Her older brothers could also be married by 1871.
I was also wondering how you linked Margaret, to John Muir, and Catherine Mary Wilkieson, when she stated on her marriage her parents were John Muir, and Mary Bennet.
Well the mystery deepens,!! I thank you again for your new
reply with more info on my elusive-ancestors;When you gave me the 'Stranraer'location for 'John Muir' I went on the
internet and found his birth ie;-'John Bennet Muir'(c)27Apr,
1810.Leswalt,Wigtown.parents;'Robert Muir' & 'Catherine
Clenochan' I could not find a marriage for them but did find
some children,(note the various name-spelling);
CH; 'Margaret Muir'(c)18Apr,1820(f) Robert,(m)Catherine
Maclean; 'Robert Muir'(c)1June1823.(f)Robert(m)Catherine
Clanachan; 'William Watt Muir'(c)22Jan.1826.(f)Robert(m)
Catherine Clannachan' all in 'Leswalt,Wigtown'.
Now there is another one with a '10yr'gap in children,I just
wonder if they may show up on the 'Census'??
Where do you think the name 'Clannachan'/Maclean' comes
fron Jonn,? could it be Irish,?
Now to answer your question about 'Margaret Muir'parents
I sent to 'Edinburgh' for my 'grandfather's birth/cert,I
had the date 13July,1877 this gave me parents marriage date
so I sent for the 'cert' and see 'John Muir'Shoemaker-master
deceased,'Mary Muir' m/s 'Bennett'deceased,,this shows that
'Margaret Muir'living at 6 Muslin St,Bridgeton,Dist. when
she married 'Robert Thomson' 6Apr,1877. Could you possibly
check '1871 Census' Bridgeton. Jonn and see if she is on it
and who she is living with,??
Now for the other name"Wilkieson" I knew this was my grt
aunt,'Katie Mary Wilkieson Thomson' but she was always just
called 'Aunt Mary' so in yr '2000' I was down in 'USA' for
my uncle's funeral and decided to visit one of the 'LDS'
Morman Research Centres,their vast amount of records are
far superior to here in 'Canada' so I looked up the name
'Wilkieson' and surprised with the print out as such;-
'John Muir'(b)1849.(f)John Muir(m)Catherine Mary Wilkieson.
'Alexander'(b)1852. " " " " " " "
'Robert' (b)1854. " " " " " " "
All born in 'Kilmarnock,Ayrshire' and listed under same
At the bottom of the page is the following extract;-
'Margaret Muir' (b)12Aug,1857.Kilmarnock,Ayr.Scotland.
Parents; "John Bennet Muir" &"Catherine Mary Wilkinson"
So Jonn I just assumed since 'Margaret' could not write
she may have got her parents mixed up with her 'granparents
now however I am thinking based on your latest info that
she may have been sent to 'Glasgow' to live with another
'John Muir' relative after her father died, or 'Mary Bennett
was related too and growing up there she looked at them as parents,hence the info on marriage/cert,,???
I have a page of the '1901'Census.Sandyford Municipal Ward.
St Vincent Parish,address; "30 Dover St" showing;-
'Robert Thomson'age 43yrs 'Joiner'(b) Glasgow.
'Margaret " " 43 " 'Wife' (b) Kilmarnock,Ayrshr
'Mary' "(daugh) 20 " Dressmaker(b) Glasgow
'Elizabeth Muir'(neice)21yrs Lappet Weaver (b) Glasgow
I also have a page of 1881 Census Barony Parish.listing
'Alexander Muir'30yrs.(b) Kilmarnock.'Shoemaker'
'Agnes wife 28yrs " "
'John son 9yrs " Glasgow
'Margaret daugh 1yr " "
Address; 70 Marquis St,Barony,Lanark.
This is also a print out I got at "LDS" Centre,USA.I have
wondered if this is Margaret's brother,??
Well Jonn I think I will close this as I have given you quite enough to ponder for now, I do hope you are truly
into this 'genealogy'ancestor-search as much as I am,
I do appreciate your help.
I notice you have WATT connected to your MUIR Family ... My Family originally came from Kilmarnock also .and moved to Mauchline...... Janet WATT married Matthew MUIR 1808 in Dalrymple... Janet was born in Ochiltree Matthew MUIR in Mauchline. Janet's Father was Forrester WATT. Mother Margaret MITCHELL.. Matthew's Father is Matthew MUIR and Mother Janet CAMPBELL.. do you have any of the above connected
I found the death of Catherine Mary Wilkieson, do you have it, if not click on my profile you will get my email address, get in touch and i will send the certificate to you as a attachment.
Just to let you all know that through the terrific help
I received from 'jonndean'I have been able to solve a mystery of ancestors I have been researching since 1988.
'jonn' was kind enough to send me my grt,grt,granmother's
'death-cert' so now I have her maiden-name to research.
Thanks to this wonderful 'site' guy's,,keep up the good
work, I'll be back,,!!!!
Just a quick reply,I will be going through my
Ayrshire-Files and get back to you,,,
I know I have Watt,Forrester,Muir for sure and
if I remember correct a Watt (mar) a Forrester
and then a Thomson,, I know there is a James in