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John C. Payne

John C. Payne

Posted: 17 Dec 2002 8:09PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Payne
My G-G-G-grandparents were John C. Payne and Mary Sanders of Webster Co. WV. On the 1860 Census John says he is 76 years old and was born in Hanover VA. Mary and the children still at home were born in KY. John C. Jr. says he was born in Kenton Co. KY. As Kenton and Campbell Counties were once the same I looked in Campbell and found John C. Payne there in 1830. Mary would have to be a second wife because John has daughters at home that are just a few years younger than her. Also I presume that Mary's father's name was Joseph Sanders, as he lives not to far from John C. Payne in Campbell Co. KY. My grandmother and father told me that we were part Cherokee, on my Payne side, but they have both died long before I thought about finding out who was Native American. Several people clam it was Mary, but no one has confimed it. I am looking for anyone that has information on John and Mary and would like to share.

Re: John C. Payne

Jean Payne Harper (View posts)
Posted: 16 Apr 2003 2:52AM GMT
Classification: Query
My great- grandfather was Quincy Adam Payne, son of Mary I. and John C. Payne and My grandfather James M. Payne told me that John Payne was married twice. He had 13 children by his first wife and she died. He wanted to get married again, but his crops failed or something happened and he couldn't afford to get a bride from Virginia so he took up with an Indian woman and had 13 more children. His first set of children disowned him so he took his Indian wife and children and went to West Virginia. Mary Sander doesn't sound like an Indian name, but I don't know. Everything I've read says that's her name. My grandfather didn't tell me her name and at the time I didn't ask. But in the death records at Webster Springs, WVa courthouse I did find that when Quincy Payne died it listed his parent's names as Mary Payne, born in Kentucky (as was Quincy) and John Payne, born in Virginia. I would love to have more info. Jean Payne Harper

Re: John C. Payne

Posted: 8 Feb 2004 7:24PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Payne
I am working on my wife genealogy. She is the 3rd Great Granddaughter of John C. Payne, Sr. and Mary Sanders. I am working on a theory that John’s middle name is Coles and that he is the son of John Payne and Mary Coles, and sister of Dolley Payne Madison. John Sr.’s age as given on the 1860 census correlates with John Coles Payne’s birth in Hanover, Orange Co., Virginia. If I am correct, John Coles Payne had two wives, Clara Wilcox and Mary Isabell Sanders. He moved from Virginia to Kentucky to Webster County, Virginia. It appears that John Coles Payne was a rebellious youth. A web site dedicated to Dolley Madison (The Dolley Madison Project: The Life, letters, and legacy of Dolley Payne Madison) notes that John Coles Payne, after a youth spent in drinking and gambling, settled at Montpelier until he moved to Kentucky. Perhaps he needed the help of an older sister, i.e. Dolley.

Dolley Madison had strong connections to Kentucky. Her sister Lucy’s second husband was a Judge Thomas Todd (married in 1812). Todd was born in Virginia and move to Kentucky in the early 1790’s. He was appointed a U.S. Supreme Court Associate Justice in 1807.

Dolley Madison also had strong connections to West Virginia, then western Virginia. In 1793, her mother moved to western Virginia (Clarksburg area?) from Philadelphia to live with her daughter Lucy and her first husband, George Steptoe Washington, nephew of George Washington. Mary Coles Payne took her two youngest children, Mary and John Coles, with her. Mary Coles Payne is buried in Clarksburg.

Dolley’s sister, Mary, married a John George Jackson of Harrison County area of Virginia (now WV). A civil engineer, he was elected to Congress from Western Virginia (now West Virginia). In 1819, he became U.S. district judge for the western district of Virginia. Jackson and Dolley remained close even after the death of Mary Payne Jackson in 1808.

John Coles Payne married Clara Wilcox in 1814. They had a daughter, Anna C. Payne, who married a Thomas H. Causten. I can find no further references to any other children or any references to Clara Wilcox.

Does this theory make sense to you?
Steve Henry

Re: John C. Payne

Al Wilson (View posts)
Posted: 8 Feb 2004 8:31PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Payne
Hello Steve, first I would ask you which one of John and Mary's children is your wife related to? Once you are sure that she is related to the John C. Payne and Mary Sanders of Webster Springs WV, I will tell you not to believe one person on these sites that say he is John Coles Payne. I wrote to a woman who is related to John Coles Payne. She has a family bible and letters that show our John C. Payne was not her John Coles Payne, Dolly's brother. John Coles died in KY.about 1852. Our John C. Payne died in Webter Co. about 1865. You can E-mail me if you would like to share information. Myself and a couple others that have accepted the fact that he is not John Coles Payne have traced him, but have a long way to go. For proof that "Our" John C. Payne is not John Coles Payne, I will give you something to look at. I hope the others that still believe that story will look also. The 1850 Kanawa Co.VA census has our John C. Payne incorrectly listed as John P. Payne. But if you read the names and ages it's our John and family. He is on his way to the Braxton Co.VA area where John Sr., Jesse and My G-G-G-grandfather Francis Payne signed a petition to form Webster Co. in 1851. John Coles is in Green Ky at this time. John Coles is also in Sangamon ILL. in the early 1800's. Our John C. Payne is in Monongalia VA 1805 and Campbell Co. KY in 1828.
Al Wilson

Re: John C. Payne

Posted: 4 Oct 2011 7:35PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Payne
From what I know, Mr. Wilson is correct. John C. Payne was the son of John and Mary Payne and the sister of Dolley Madison, married to Clara Wilcox. For much of his life he was an alcoholic. AFTER James Madison died in 1836, John C. Payne decided he could not remain on a farm near MOntpelier and moved his family first to Sangamon County, Ill (near Berlin) and then, failing there, to Kentucky. In 1841 Clara left John Coles and walked to Kentucky where she took refuge with a wealthy Madison relative named James Taylor. At some point in the next year or two John Coles returned to his family and they moved to Barren County, Kentucky. It is not clear to me what happened thereafter. If any of you have more information on John Coles Payne I would be grateful. I am basing my information on letters from James Taylor to Dolley Madison. All of these letters are included in the Dolley Madison Digital Edition, published by Rotunda, the electronic imprint of the University of Virginia Press. I can be reached at hcs8n@virginia.edu. With thanks, Holly C. Shulman

Re: John C. Payne

Posted: 20 Oct 2011 3:40AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 2 Oct 2012 4:44PM GMT
I saw your post and have some info which may help. In the 1850 census John Coles payne and Clara were in Green County Kentucky with 5 of their children. In the 1860 census Clara was living with her son James Madison Payne and a child William age 6 in Logan county Kentucky. John Coles Payne was not present. One of the post talked about a letter sent to John Coles Payne by A.E. Hunter and Clara. That would be Alson E.Hunter and wife, Clara Louisa Payne. I have some information about this family. Happy ancestor hunting,----Smitty---.
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