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Hubbard - French POW in England during Napoleonic Wars

Hubbard - French POW in England during Napoleonic Wars

Posted: 22 Jan 2010 2:32PM GMT
Classification: Military
Surnames: Hubbard
Does anyone know where I can find records of French soldiers from Napoleon's Armies that were held as Prisoner's of War in England? Family legend is that our name Hubbard comes from a French POW that was held in England during the Napoleonic Wars and went on to marry a local English girl. Apparently my Grandfather used to talk of his grave being down south somewhere (England). That's all the info I have. I have got stuck on the Hubbard line and wondered if I could start from the other end and try and match them in the middle! However I can't find any records online anywhere of French POW's.
Anyone got any suggestions? Many thanks. Kim :)

Re: Hubbard - French POW in England during Napoleonic Wars

Posted: 11 Aug 2010 11:53PM GMT
Classification: Query
There could be more than an element of truth in that story. French prisoners [officers and NCO’s] were given parole under the care of an agent and lived in several towns and villages
throughout the UK called “parole towns”.

Records are held in National Archives, Kew for more details see http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?s... > click on blue text ADM 103 [section 3], then under “arrangement” - Registers of parole prisoners click on ADM 103/549 and then select “browse from here” to see the extent of locations.

Records are not online and you will need to read the full details of the above leaflet to see in there is an index or if it will be a slog through each set to locate any Hubbard prisoners.

I saw something online for Okehampton and Oswestry a few years ago that I used to answer another query but I must have deleted the record of it. Try Google for French Parole prisoners or the like and try adding the names of towns you identify from the above, I’m sure find more information.

Good luck

Re: Hubbard - French POW in England during Napoleonic Wars

Posted: 15 Aug 2010 1:49PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Hubbard
Hello there and thank you so much for all that information. I have followed all your links but I find it so difficult to understand The National Archives and where to go from there that I haven't got any further! My ancestor has the surname Hubbard and the family settled in Lincolnshire so I have presumed that he was at Norman Cross but there doesn't seem to be any lists online anywhere.

Have you any advice on how you go about searching further through The National Archives?

Re: Hubbard - French POW in England during Napoleonic Wars

Posted: 17 Aug 2010 4:12PM GMT
Classification: Query
Kim,

Sorry for not being more specific about the records in National Archives Catalogue. Searching is not easy as unlike genealogical data on Ancestry and other web sites, records are not indexed with names to aid genealogists, but quite correctly from its original purpose the title of the documents. Even then the descriptions of the documents and more importantly their scope [not so easy to defend] often leaves much to be desired, making the ordering of specific items, pages or parts difficult to say the least, but that goes for the national archives of most countries.

The POWs at Norman Cross were held in the prison there so any surviving records will be held with files describing the prisons etc., rather than listed under the parole towns. There’s an online article in pdf format, that mentions the prison at Norman Cross [page 2] that may be of interest - http://www.cnrs-scrn.org/northern_mariner/vol06/tnm_6_4_17-2... . There is also a link to a lodge of the Masonic Order and French masons within the French prisoners, I’ve lost the link but it’s related to an article in the magazine in Masons Quarterly and some messages in response to it.

To find records associated with Norman Cross prison at the National Archives, from http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/search.asp enter Norman Cross, dates blank, department ADM and you’ll see 18 files, the first 16 of which are directly related. I found if you try and enter a wide range of dates for some reason ADM 103/628 isn’t returned. Once you know what you want, initially I expect the registers in ADM 103 you can limit the records returned by entering that dept code. Also note the titles in ADM 98 relating correspondence with an “agent” at Norman Cross, implying there were also parole prisoners there too.

None of these records can be viewed online and the registers for Norman Cross are in Dutch and French, depending on the register – click on the blue text to see what the documents are and the language.

If you can get to Kew you can use the entry to identify likely records to view on the premises, but I don’t think you can pre-order without a valid readers ticket [so take some ID if are going to visit].
To order [or at least get an estimate of the cost] a copy any piece number or part of, select the item [say ADM 103/260] then click “ordering and viewing option” then click “order ..copy etc”. Now click “change” in “estimate options box” and select the format you want the copy > continue – that will take you back to the order screen.
In the text box enter what you want to the copies to contain e.g. all pages with names beginning “H” or perhaps all pages listing surname Hubbard [more likely the French equivalent – Hubere/Hubert??] or maybe the whole thing [beware of large documents]. You can submit up to 5 piece numbers in one estimate request. Then sit back and wait for the response that will either be a cost for what you’ve ask for or a message telling you that is classed as research. If you cannot get to Kew yourself another alternative is the use a researcher – see https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/ scroll down to “paying for research” and follow instructions to see lists.

Best I can do
Good Luck
Jeff

Re: Hubbard - French POW in England during Napoleonic Wars

Posted: 18 Nov 2010 9:59AM GMT
Classification: Query
Kim, my 4th Gt grandfather was a French pow and was sent to the parole town of Selkirk in Scotland because he was an officer. I made a breakthrough by going to RAOGK (Random Acts Of Genealogical Kindness) and contacting some of the volunteers in France. I got his military record from
SERVICE HISTORIQUE DE LA DEFENSE
CHATEAU DE VINCENNES
AVENUE DE PARIS
94306 VINCENNES CEDEX

Give them as much info as possible.
That's all I can think of, but don't give up, it took me 12 yrs to break my wall down. Happy hunting, Norm.

Re: Hubbard - French POW in England during Napoleonic Wars

Posted: 23 Dec 2010 10:40AM GMT
Classification: Query
Thank you Norm!

Re: Hubbard - French POW in England during Napoleonic Wars

Posted: 3 Feb 2011 1:11PM GMT
Classification: Query
I am in a similar position in that I am researching an ancestor who, following Trafalgar, was captured aboard Le Formidable and who was subsequently paroled at Tiverton. My current task is to find evidence confirming he is the father of two boys, born in Tiverton, during his stay, one of whom bears his first name and a corruption of his surname; but I digress.

Having had the opportunity to visit the National Archives at Kew, I found the experience somewhat daunting but the staff helpful.

The following document may help to clarify the archives a little: "A guide to the naval records in the national archives of the UK", Randolph Cock and NAM Rodger, 2nd edition, 2008.
http://centres.exeter.ac.uk/cmhs/naval_records/

Also, for background information,
"French Prisoners of War in Britain, 1756-1815", Francis Abell, Oxford University Press, 1914.
http://www.archive.org/stream/prisonersofwarin00abeluoft/pri...

Finally, "Napoleon's Lost Legions: French Prisoners of War in Britain, 1803-1814", Daly, G, History: Journal of the Historical Association, 89, (3) pp. 361-80. ISSN 0018-2648 (2004).
I recently requested a copy of this item from ecite.utas.edu.au.
Whilst this draws heavily on the above "French Prisoners of War in Britain...", it does add a number of other references and potential channels of investigation. For example, when discussing the unions between French officers on parole at Ashby and British women, I found the following, "The British government paid for the subsistence of the wives and any children." Sadly this statement is not provided with a supporting reference. Whether this was specifically for wives and children of PoW, or whether it was part of the bastardy relief I have yet to determine. (I have found a number of contemporary accounts where such couples were advised that any marriage between them may not be recognised).

I hope the above is of interest and wish you good luck with your research.

Re: Hubbard - French POW in England during Napoleonic Wars

Posted: 5 Feb 2011 5:00PM GMT
Classification: Query
I have just come across your post regarding a French prisoner of war named 'Hubbard', buried down south, possibly from Norman Cross prison depot.

This sounds very as if it refers to Jean Marie Phillippe Habart, a French prisoner from Norman Cross who resided in the Stilton area after the war, and is buried in Stilton churchyard. My interest in him is from my specific interest in Napoleonic prisoners of war (I had a book published in 2008 entitled 'Hell Upon Water: Prisoners of War in Britain 1793-1815 that covers all the prisons including Norman Cross). I was also involved in the restoration of the Norman Cross Eagle Memorial, the monument that commemorates the 1,770 prisoners who died at the depot.

I am currently working on a book specifically about the prison at Norman Cross, and will include the story of Habart.

What I know so far is this. he was a French civilian, captured in a boat off Calais in 1803 and brought to Norman Cross as a pow. He worked as a baker in the depot, and during his time there met Elizabeth Snow, daughter of a farmer from Stilton, who delivered milk to the prison. When Habart was released in 1814 he went back to France, received an inheritance, and came back to England and married Elizabeth. They lived in Stilton and he set up a successful business as a baker and corn merchant (although he is listed as publican on the 1841 census). In 1846 he was returning from Peterborough when he was robbed and murdered. His gravestone is in the churchyard (I can send you a picture if you wish).

The 1841 census lists him as John Habart, married to Elizabeth, with Jane, Robert, Reuben, Elizabeth, Henry and James living with them. Elizabeth Habart was still living in Stilton (as a widow) in 1851.

This is all I know about him at the moment, but will be doing further research on him for my book. It would be interesting to learn when the family name changed to Hubbard, and if his descendents still live in Stilton today. If and when I uncover any further information I will let you know.

Hope this is of interest.
Paul

Re: Hubbard - French POW in England during Napoleonic Wars

Posted: 7 Jul 2011 7:20PM GMT
Classification: Query
I have read your 'mail' with great interest. I have been trying to find out about my ancestor, John Le Blanc, born in 'foreign parts'in 1817. His mother, Jane,was born in Boldre, Hampshire and both are recorded in the 1841 census as living in Lymington, Hampshire but Jane is recorded as head of the family. I have recently found out that Jane's husband (John's father) was a Louis Le blanc, a soldier, and also that French POW's were billeted in Lymington.

Your information has given me new leads to follow, for which I thank you. Researching my family, to me, is like a mystery story - my husband dispares about the time I spend 'hunting' on the web, but I find it far more entertaining than watching TV! Poor, sad soul that I am!

Re: Hubbard - French POW in England during Napoleonic Wars

Posted: 20 Aug 2011 4:04PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: combes
I am researching my husband's 2 g grandfather who was at Dartmoor 1809 and paroled to Oswestry then returned to Okehampton in 1812 and discharged. Do you know if there are records of where officer prisoners were repatriated to or from which ports here? Was very interested in your piece, wil look out for your books.
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