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Lookup 23 Ethelm St LAMBETH please?

Lookup 23 Ethelm St LAMBETH please?

Posted: 5 Jun 2013 3:16PM GMT
Classification: Lookup
Edited: 5 Jun 2013 4:44PM GMT
I'm wondering if anyone with MFP would be so kind as to look up 23 Ethelm Street in the 1901 census.

I am looking for a Frank & Jessie Toon but their name is misspelled (I forget how, so cannot look him up on here.)

Thank you.

HW

Re: Lookup 23 Ethelm St LAMBETH please?

Posted: 5 Jun 2013 4:56PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 5 Jun 2013 4:59PM GMT
Hi
It's a John and Minnie Cheesman at number 23 Ethelm Street, Lambeth in 1901.
Who are Frank and Jessie Toon?

John

Re: Lookup 23 Ethelm St LAMBETH please?

Posted: 5 Jun 2013 6:34PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 5 Jun 2013 6:41PM GMT
Thank you SO much John.

I wish I knew who they are. I'm doing some research for a book and Jessie was a witness at the Old Bailey. She gave her husband's name as Frank and her address as 23 Ethelm Street. Later I was told that someone had found them in the 1901 census, renting one room at 23 Ethelm Street but, having a sub here instead of at The Other Place, I can't search addresses.

These are poor, labouring people, not in the electoral registers or phone books. But I keep searching, I mean, surely they had kids?

There are no birth, death, marriage records for these people and they are not in any other censuses, either. Jessie was in court two more times, as a prisoner, and gave no more info than I already have.

It's quite frustrating really. It's almost as though they don't exist.

I would guess their dates of birth as being no later than 1870, most likely 1840 to 1860.

HW

Re: Lookup 23 Ethelm St LAMBETH please?

Posted: 6 Jun 2013 9:43AM GMT
Classification: Query
Exeter & PLymouth Gazette- march 3rd 1903

Frank Macquire, 45, woollen weaver, Etham-street, and Laura M acquire, 23 laundress, were charged with being disOrderly and using obscene language in Walker street, Borough. . a 4 P.C. Hayward said Laura Macquire . an important witness in the Chapman case - Her real name was Jessie Toon. The magistrate fined the man 20s or 14 days, woman 7s or seven days. Jessie Toon was the" woman who nursed Maud Marsh at the Crown public house and gave startling evidence as to the taste of some brandy.

Another twist ! but I cants find them under these names either

Also in another newspaper report in 1903 she is 31 years old

Re: Lookup 23 Ethelm St LAMBETH please?

Posted: 11 Jun 2013 6:16PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 11 Jun 2013 7:06PM GMT
Wow Kobie I am utter taken aback by your message!

I never expected that! You are a master-researcher indeed - even better than me LOL ...

I never thought she was 23. They never said her age in court, but what they said and what she said made me think she was elderly. Are you sure it did not say 23 Etham Street?

Wow. I'm blown away! Thank you SO much!

HW

Re: Lookup 23 Ethelm St LAMBETH please?

Posted: 11 Jun 2013 6:25PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 11 Jun 2013 6:42PM GMT
They say Jessie Toon was her real name, but there are no records under that name.

Kinda weird these people are just not in any records, not as MacGuire and not as Toon -- no birth, do death, no marriage, no census... no kids' school records, no electoral roll.

Maybe both these names are made up?


There seems to be some words missing here (marked [...])

23 laundress, were charged with being disOrderly and using obscene language in Walker street, Borough. . a 4 P.C. Hayward said Laura Macquire . an important witness in the Chapman case - [..... ]Her real name was Jessie Toon.

Re: Lookup 23 Ethelm St LAMBETH please?

Posted: 11 Jun 2013 6:50PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 11 Jun 2013 6:51PM GMT
So it looks like it's not Ethelm Street but 23 ETHAM street - can anyone please look that up in the 1901? Thanks!

Re: Lookup 23 Ethelm St LAMBETH please?

Posted: 12 Jun 2013 11:58AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 12 Jun 2013 12:03PM GMT
Is it not Eltham Street? Which is in Newington, the Walworth area. But there are various references to this street in the newspapers as Eltham Street, Borough or Southwark or Old Kent Road, even Eltham Street, Bermondsey.
The main occupier in 1901 is William H Baker, 74, born Truro Cornwall. Widowed with two daughters. Also George + Sarah Farmer. Piece 381 Folio 37 Page 12
Mr Baker had been at number 23 for many years (is there in 1881). But he's not on the electoral rolls there after 1902?

One idea - probably wrong, but there's seemingly no "normal" answer - there is a Jessie Toon in Lambeth in 1901, age looks like 30 to me, it could have been altered, born Devon. Married to Thomas, 38, a Plate Layer from Northampton
Except that they aren't married. He had been, and his wife Sophia Julia had died in 1899. Thomas seems actually to have been born in Islington circa 1859, and he had a married sister Ellen Ruskin with whom his daughter Elizabeth was supposed to have been staying in 1900 after she came out of the workhouse school (this from poor law records).
Thomas and Jessie have a young son in 1901. And Elizabeth is back home with her father again. After which they have all disappeared. Can find no one at all, which does not help the following theory. But I just wondered if Jessie Toon was a married name (even if not legally so) which was later dropped. In other words could this Jessie have split up with Thomas Toon and then lived with someone else? If this coincided with the murder case and its publicity, it would put her in an uncomfortable position if she didn't want her affairs to be known by everyone. So she remained as Jessie Toon while the case was going on and Frank Mcguire or whoever he was had to be referred to by her as Frank Toon?
But whatever, thats what I am suggesting anyway, maybe your lady had at some time been known as Jessie Toon but Frank wasn't a Toon at all. And no Frank and Jessie to find in 1901
John

Re: Lookup 23 Ethelm St LAMBETH please?

Posted: 12 Jun 2013 1:30PM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi

Nottingham Evening Post 27 June 1903

AN ECHO OF THE SOUTHWARK CASE. At Southwark Police-court, London, yesterday, Jessie Toon, 31, charwoman, Osborne-street, E-, and Mery Corby, 27, married, Staple-street, Bermondsey, were charged with being disorderly by fighting together in tho neighbourhood tho Crown public-house. Borough High-street. Toon was further charged with being drunk.—Police-conatablo Clare, 53M, gave evidence of the two women fighting.—Toon: You know I was nurse to Maud Marsh, and witness against Chapman, the poisoner. This woman (Corby) and others say I murdered Maud Marsh and got Chapman hung innocently. I never said & word last night when tbey set upon me. should have been stabbed by some Jews last week but for two men interfering. Last night was first timo I had been this aide of tbe water since the mau was hung.—Mr. Baggallay imposed penalty 10s., with the alternative of seven days' imprisonment in the case of Toon, and bound Corby over to keep peace.—As she was leaving tbo dock. Toon exclaimed, "Am I to be murdered through being a witness a case like that?"


I have a subscription to www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk.
I just copied & pasted, so sometimes you get spelling errors

You seem to have a fascinating pastime !

Regards

Jane

Re: Lookup 23 Ethelm St LAMBETH please?

Posted: 12 Jun 2013 2:57PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 12 Jun 2013 3:01PM GMT
Confirmation of Jessie's age?
Born circa 1871
She was admitted to St George's workhouse in Mint Street 14.12.03, discharged following day
Don't know if this is her only admission. Haven't been able to find anything else yet. Maybe when Ancestry index more of these Poor Law records something else will turn up. You could still search through the records for Southwark Board of Guardians on here, might be something.
See attachments of A+D and Creed registers
John
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