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Death during immigration voyage aboard ship

Death during immigration voyage aboard ship

Posted: 19 Oct 2010 8:34PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 20 Oct 2010 12:53PM GMT
Surnames: Alessandri
I found who I think is my husband's great grandfather from Lucca, however, this immigration record states that he, along with all the other names listed died at sea during the voyage. I see another name just below his that indicates this man is a friend who sailed with him to immigrate to N.Y., and on to CA., and both came from the same region of Lucca.
My question is: Wouldn't there be another ship manifest record while he was still alive prior to the time he died on ship, and were the corpses buried at sea or sent back to the family of their hometown origin?

Re: Death during immigration voyage aboard ship

Posted: 20 Oct 2010 3:20AM GMT
Classification: Query
Any response without viewing the manifest would be pure conjecture. Can you give the name of the immigrant, ship name, port and arrival date?

Re: Death during immigration voyage aboard ship

Posted: 17 Dec 2010 9:33PM GMT
Classification: Query
People who died at sea were usually buried at sea for the simple reason that there would be nowhere to keep the bodies, to say nothing of the cost of return to a hometown. After all, most emigrants were emigrating because they were very poor and seeking a new life so they would be unlikely to have enough money to pay all the costs of keeping the bodies and getting them back. There should however be a record of him on the ship as a passenger on leaving wherever, unless he was a stowaway - but that would have been recorded on the ship's log.

Re: Death during immigration voyage aboard ship

Posted: 7 Jun 2013 3:06AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 7 Jun 2013 1:36PM GMT
Surnames: Hopcus
I recently found that a child Auriela Hopcus traveling with an ancester died after leaving Hamburg. At the time of death they were in the port of Le Havre France. There should be a passenger list from the point of departure and arrival. The note about Auriella having passed has been missed by abstractors. I am now on a search to find out where she was buried, etc., what they did with her. I have the departure manifest and the arrival manifest which lists her as having died. I am attaching the file so you will know sort of what to look for.
Attachments:

Re: Death during immigration voyage aboard ship

Posted: 8 Jun 2013 1:22AM GMT
Classification: Query
When you say that "abstractors" missed this info are you indicating those who compiled the databases such as those found at Ancestry? If so, I have not seen those "transcribers" make any such notations in the online databases.

As the poster previous to you mentioned, if the death as at sea, then the burial would have taken place at sea.

Robert

Re: Death during immigration voyage aboard ship

Posted: 8 Jun 2013 11:24AM GMT
Classification: Query
they had stopped in Havre France to pick up more passengers is my understanding. I am told they may have had family pick them up, buried her there, or maybe shipped the body home. I am just wondering if the middle line in the death statement doesn't reveal the disposition of the body. I think that one line is in German and am going to try to have a friend read it today. The information online about the immigration shows Auriella having immigrated. I haven't seen such notations by the transcribers either. Without the actual image of the manifest and examining it closely, one would think she immigrated.

Re: Death during immigration voyage aboard ship

Posted: 8 Jun 2013 1:00PM GMT
Classification: Query
I have recently come across something (trying to help someone else) which has sent all my "facts" about "death at sea" into free-fall. I have checked with a couple of experts, including a retired Admiral, who confirmed they believed what I believed - "death at sea" meant you had died on a ship outside territorial waters. Gravesend on the north Kent coast in England is (I understand) so-called because if you died on a ship West of that point in the Thames estuary you had not died at sea and would be taken ashore for burial, if you died to the East of that point you had "died at sea" and would be buried at sea. I have now been told of a case where a death is clearly recorded as a person having died at sea on a ship called "Union" with a specific date - but no amount of searching could find a "Union" at sea on that date, in addition it was a steamship which had left England for the US six weeks before the death - a length of voyage impossible even in those days. It has now turned out that the ship did leave England on the date quoted but arrived in New York with both cholera and typhoid on board so everyone was quarantined on to a quarantine ship. Some were then moved to a second quarantine ship - the person concerned died, on the date recorded, on board the second quarantine ship in New York Harbour (which apparently also has a "Gravesend"!) and as far as the current knowledge goes all people who died on these quarantine ships were buried on Staten Island. It seems unbelievable that people could be buried by a civil authority which did not register them - but so far the only record is that he "died at sea" on a date when he was not on board the ship given as "place of death". I am not sure what the answer is for people searching apart from making enquiries at any specific port but one thing is clear - you could "die at sea" in New York harbour, on a ship different from the one recorded as your place of death. Do not know if this is of any help but at least it will let people know they may have to do some lateral thinking.

Re: Death during immigration voyage aboard ship

Posted: 2 Oct 2014 4:34AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 2 Oct 2014 4:51AM GMT
To answer everyone's question about Auriella Hopcus who died after leaving Lisko, Galica now Lesko, Poland. She was the niece of my great-grandmother Rozalia nee Nycz-Berezik. Auriella's mother was Maria nee Nycz-Hopcus, another sister Julia Louise Nycz-(later Kopytek married in Texas. Another cousin and I are doing the family genealogy research Deb is a descendant of Julia Nycz-Kopytek, and I am the great-grandson of Rozalia nee Nycz-Berezik.There where two manifest for passenger ship at this time and still done like this today. The ship being of Germany registry had one written in German, and upon arrival one written in English. On both manifests they also had other Hopcus children, and my great uncle Tony Berezik and his 6 month old brother My other great uncle Jozef Berezik. A mystery child was another Maria Nycz who was 16, not sure what happened to her, but I think she was another niece of my Great-Grandmother Rozalia the daughter of Roazlia's brother who came to the USA a year later . All three sisters where from a well to do family of a merchant in Lisko. The family took a great risk and traveled with everyone on one ship the S.S. Scandia operated by the Hamburg-Amerika Linie on the same voyage. In total there where about 12 family members on board. They traveled from Lisko, which did not have a train rail system then or even today in 2014. The nearest train station was in Sanok about 13 km from Lisko. They left in 1890 and journeyed to Przemyśl, Poland across the River from Ukrainie, from there they took the train to Hamburg where Auriella became ill with meningitis. When they arrived in Hamburg she was gravely ill and died while they family boarded the ship. The family at first told them she was sleeping. After they left Hamburg the following morning the arrived in La Havre, France that evening they set across the North Atlantic, when the crew was told she was dead, they recorded her death at 10:30 PM. July 7th, 1890. The crew allowed her to be buried in the USA. Why the crew allowed this is beyond me, makes no sense since the voyage left July 6th and arrived in NYC on July 19th - a good 2 weeks. I have great deals on the Scandia (which had a refrigerator for passengers food only and separate unit below for purposes like this situation. The crew of the Scandia operated by HAPAG allowed the child to remain with the family for a few days. The family washed and prepared Auriella, blessed her then placed her remains in a family steamer trunk, then placing the truck in the hull of the ship. How do I know this? My great aunt Bronislawa nee Berezik-Supina told us of the families situation before boarding which I have on video. I made the video interview since Bronislawa was the last of Rozalia and Stanislaus Berezik's children, she lived to be 101. After entering NYC harbor the Scandia transported passengers from the ship to the pier at the Barge Office, which was located around the Battery Park area in downtown Manhattan. After the immigration process they proceeded to Bremond, Texas. Ellis island was not opened yet and immigration was not as difficult as it was when Ellis Island opened. True when Ellis Island opened, and sick people arrived they where sent back to original port at the passenger ship company expense. The Berezik, Nycz, and Hopcus families were meeting other Hopcus family members who were already established in Bremond. Auriella was buried in St. Mary's Cemetery, Bremond, Texas here in the USA she was not buried at sea, and not sent back to the family from La Havre - they brought her to Texas. I have been trying to locate her grave, but back in the 1890's a simple wooden cross was placed to mark the ground. Other Hopcus family members are buried in this cemetery and since monuments or markers where not a thing to do. In fact even in present day Poland and other countries they recycle the graves after 25 years. In fact one Berezik family grave in Lesko has three Berezik generation ladies buried in the same space. Of course they were wooden caskets back then so since space was scarce and after 25 years they reused graves. Out of respect for the past family remains when digging the new burial, they would place old bones inside the new burial casket. A side note - Thurber Cemetery in the Texas ghost town off I-20 has a cemetery with many immigrants who died working in the coal mines. Check it out online they had children die and placed the metal cribs abound the plot. They still stand after almost 100 years. You would think the weather would rust them away. Hope this clears up a lot of questions. Also Ella née Berezik-Vodka who was born in Central, Texas area of Thurber in 1902 she died during child birth in 1945 as did her baby, both were buried I the same casket. Her profile is on Find a Grave. Daryl

Re: Death during immigration voyage aboard ship

Posted: 13 Oct 2014 12:58AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Kirsch
I have another mysterious case:

I found my ancestor's ship list. He is listed as being in hospital and then "Died in Hospital". He is 19, name Heinrich Kirsch, arrived in March 1914 aboard Prince Friedich Wilhelm from Berman leaving 7 Mar 1914. Arriving in New York in March 1914 - no day given.

Right next to this entry is a number: 14-30181-1-22-37.

Would this hospital have been the ship's hospital? Since he is listed on the manifest I would assume that the hospital was onboard. Or would they maintain the list after the passengers were taken to the hospital on land.

Any ideas what this number could mean?

Thank you,
Roxanne

Re: Death during immigration voyage aboard ship

Posted: 16 Oct 2014 8:13PM GMT
Classification: Query
See my post below for answers
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