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Lübeck: H or S?

Lübeck: H or S?

Posted: 10 Sep 2013 3:01AM GMT
Classification: Query
Especially on Lübeck Citizenship sets from the late 1800s & early 1900s, I've started seeing a lot of family names (and occasionally place names) that look like they are completely in modern script except for what looks *exactly* like the usual Kurrent/Sütterlin "h" (and *not* like the usual Kurrent/Sütterlin long "s"), most often but not always next to a modern script "s" (usually before the "s", but rarely after). Is it possible that this is actually a long "s" instead of an "h", or that the combination with "s" is perhaps a form of an "ß"?

In every case I've run across so far, the spelling with the "hs" is in the dropdown dictionary and in almost every case I've run across the spelling with "ss" is not in the dropdown dictionary, which is making me second-guess myself. (Especially after seeing "Vohs" and "Grohse" in the dropdown dictionary while "Voss" and "Grosse" aren't in the dictionary at all.)

I've attached a screenshot illustrating this (from 1912). The family names are obviously in modern script, while the given names are obviously Kurrent. Larsson and Lüssow have two modern "s"es together, Schünemann and Schurig have modern "h"es, but: Priehs or Priess or Prieß? Vohs or Voss or Voß?
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Re: Lübeck: H or S?

Posted: 10 Sep 2013 7:23AM GMT
Classification: Query
I'm thinking that Larsson has two standard s's because they come from two separate syllables and just happen to appear together in the word - Lars - son. I don't know whether this is the same for the other name because I don't know its derivation. I have in my notes on the older handwriting that the s's are written separately in the middle of a "compound word". And then in Voss and Priess they are proper "double-s" occurrences so are written like that.

Hopefully Elisabeth will give us a proper answer though, because the above is just my guess! And I don't know whether they should be keyed as ss or ß so hopefully Elisabeth will know.

(But Voss and Grosse are definitely actual surnames even if they aren't in the dropdown menu.)

Re: Lübeck: H or S?

Posted: 13 Sep 2013 6:21AM GMT
Classification: Query
Oh, I know Voss & Grosse are actual surnames as I have personal connections to people with each of those names.

However, I don't know whether "Vohs" and "Grohse", etc. are *also* actual surnames (just because I've never heard of them doesn't mean much--there have been lots of German surnames (and alternate spellings) in this project that I've never heard of before) , or if they're only in the dictionary because someone on a previous project didn't realize this is an s and keyed it as an h--and I'd rather not make a bad assumption that either spelling aren't real names and blithely key in the wrong one without realizing that what's on the page is actually the other. (In other words, I'm second-guessing myself enough to tie myself up in knots.)

Re: Lübeck: H or S?

Posted: 13 Sep 2013 10:40PM GMT
Classification: Query
On old inscriptions from the 1700's I have seen for example names written as Grohse. The spelling is not consistend and it depends on the time period the names are from. If you are looking at names from 1900 and later there is the ss and the ß, but hs in combination is no longer used. When it looks like a hs I usually use ss. I know they are not in the drop down list, but the drop down list is not accurate. On the USHMM Munich project for instance, towns are listed without the special characters, München shows up as Munchen and so on. I only use the list as a rough guide.

At present I am reviewing the USHMM Munich project as no one else is doing it. Then I will return keying and reviewing the Lübeck project and see it through to the end.

Re: Lübeck: H or S?

Posted: 14 Sep 2013 8:34AM GMT
Classification: Query
I would key Larsson as seen because there are cleary two ss in it.
Priess
Voss

sorry I did not answer your question clearly before.

Re: Lübeck: H or S?

Posted: 14 Sep 2013 6:19PM GMT
Classification: Query
Thanks for the answers!
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