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Sarah Martin

Sarah Martin

Posted: 11 Jul 2010 9:42AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Martin, Williams
Researching Sarah Martin, according to the 1851 Lancshire Census, when she was Sarah Williams, she was born Llansannan, Denbighshire.
According to the Lancashire Cencus' her date of birth varies from 1796,1797 to 1801.
Sarah married Samuel Henry Williams of Liverpool, originally from Mayentwrog, Merionethshire, Wales.
It is unknown if they were married in Liverpool or Wales - unable to find a Marriage Cert.
They would have been married circa 1825.
William's occupation was a 'Plaster'.
Known children (from Census) in no particular date order:
Sarah Jane, William, David, Lewis, Amelia.
Any information on these families were be most appreciated.

Maree

Re: Sarah Martin

Posted: 12 Jul 2010 5:01PM GMT
Classification: Query
Maree,

All of the censuses all give her husband as 'William' Willams (not 'Samuel Henry' as you give) of Maentwrog.

Their youngest child, Lewis Williams, was born about 1823 in Liverpool, so you may need to look for a marriage around 1822?

You won't find a marriage certificate as these were only issued from 1837. You will need to look at parish registers. The family lived in the Islington district of Liverpool.

Re: Sarah Martin

Posted: 12 Jul 2010 5:33PM GMT
Classification: Query
Another problem! I've just spotted that someone on Ancestry is researching this family, but has a different surname for Sarah:

Name: William Williams
Spouse's name: Sarah Roberts
Marriage Date: 12 Aug 1821
Marriage Place: Walton On The Hill, Lancashire, England

Their children are given as Lewis (1823); Ann (1828); William (1830); Sarah Jane (1833); David (1837) and Amelia (1838).

Re: Sarah Martin

Posted: 13 Jul 2010 12:20AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Martin, Roberts, Williams
Hello,

Thank you very much for your prompt reply and assistance.
I meant to write that Sarah married William Williams. It was their son, Samuel (middle name Henry) Williams who is my great grandfather. He appears in the 1841 Census but is missing in the 1851.
It is difficult to calculate his age. Someone way back previously doing the Family Tree has given his birth date as 25th August, 1837, born Liverpool. We do not have the original Birth Cert. nor can we trace who was the originator of this information.

On his Marriage Cert, he was married in Corowa, New South Wales (Australia), 9th August, 1869, son of William Williams whose occupation was a 'Plasterer', Liverpool.
However, he gave his mother's name as being Sarah Martin.
His age at the time of his marriage was given as 29 years which means he was born circa. 1840.

He died on 5th April, 1915 at Corowa and his age was 76 which means he was born in 1839/1840.

On his Death Cert. it states that he was 9 years in New Zealand, 11 years in Victoria, 10 years in West Australia and 30 years in New South Wales - giving a total of 59 years which means he would have departed the U.K. in 1856.
However, as previously mentioned, he is in the 1841 Census but not in the 1851.

We did find this on the IGI:
Samuel Williams
Born – 25 Aug 1834 Liverpool, Lancashire, England Christened – 12 Oct 1834 Father – William Williams Mother – Sarah Roberts.

I note on the information you have kindly sent that Samuel Williams is not mentioned amongst their children (but he is in the 1841 Census).

The ages on the Census' do not appear to be accurate for they vary each 10 years.

Earlier in the week, I checked the 1871 Census looking at the 'original' one, it shows William Williams (Head) aged 77 (born 1794) living at Lennox Street, Derby with son William Williams aged 45. What the translated script did not divulge is that William Williams (Head) was a Plasterer and son William, a labourer.

Also, in the 1841 Census, having scanned the 'original' image, the only discrepancy in the ages, given by the translator of the Census, is that Amelia was aged 8 years (not 3)which means she was born 1833 (not 1838).

Could you please direct me to the message that you discovered regarding this family? I am unable to find any other family that matches and Samuel Henry Williams (son of William Williams and Sarah) named his only daughter, Amelia (who was my grandmother).

Thank you again for your assistance,

Maree

Re: Sarah Martin

Posted: 13 Jul 2010 11:40AM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi Maree,

The Ancestry tree I was referring to can be found at:

http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/10565276/person/-543791208

but note that she does not have Samuel included. Unfortunately this tree has little information than you do not already have. The christening for Amelia is also incorrect!

The baptism you have found for Samuel at Great Crosshall Street Chapel would seem to be the correct one. There are also baptisms for

siblings Ann (born 10 Oct 1826; bap 14 Oct 1826); William (born 20 Feb 1829; bap 12 Apr 1829); Sarah Jane (born 19 Feb 1832; bap 8 Apr

1832); David (bap 10 Jul 1836).
These records also suggest two other children who may have died in infancy:
- John Williams, born 28 Mar 1824, bap 9 Jan 1825, s/o William Williams & Sarah Roberts (or is this actually Lewis???)
- David Williams, born 19 Feb 1832, bap 8 Apr 1932, s/o William Williams & Sarah Roberts (He would have to be a twin of Sarah Jane?)

Nothing for Amelia, suggesting that she was born actually born in 1838? (The Great Crosshall Chapel records stop at 1837).

I can't find a marriage for Samuel in NSW in 1869? Who did he marry? There is one in Victoria which might fit?

Re: Sarah Martin

Posted: 14 Jul 2010 6:56AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Martin, Williams, Burns, Telford, Moore
Hi, I am sorry that I don't know you name in order to address you properly.
Thank you so much again for your assistance.
This is a family that I have hit the proverbial 'brick wall' with over many years and my interest has been renewed owing to the fact that I have recently had enquiries from distant relatives in NZ, N.S.W. and Tasmania. Thus, it seemed a golden opportunity to see what we could all collate.

The marriage to which I was referring - Samuel Henry Williams took place in Rutherglen (I live in Perth and thought that Rutherglen was in N.S.W.) but it is in Victoria.
The bride was Jane Burns, daughter of Johanna/Joan/Ann nee Telford and Robert Burns - both originally from Roxbergshire, Scotland. To recap: the date was 9th August, 1869. Samuel Henry William's occupation was 'Plasterer', born in Liverpool. His age was 29 years which means he was born about 1840 - still cannot find any records of his birth in the U.K. websites. (When he died in April 1915, he was aged 76 which gives us about the same time frame for his birth year).
According to the Marriage Cert. his mother was Sarah Martin.
His father William Williams was a 'Builder' (on the Cert.) but family members have said during the bygone years that he was a 'Plasterer'. Subsequent male members of the family in Corowa, N.S.W. have become tilers and plasterers.

Someone originally made the connection with the Census which we have been discussing - it seemed too much coincidence to have a William Williams married to a Sarah
and to be a 'Plasterer', living in Liverpool, and a daughter name Amelia (whom we thought my grandmother Amelia Moore nee Williams) was named after.
I wondered if there would be any clues in the naming of the children of Samuel Henry Williams. I am used to Irish genealogy and their 'Naming Patterns' but I do not know if it was used in the U.K.

The children were:
1) 1872 Clarence Williams
2) 1873 Walter Herbert Williams
3) Frank Williams (dates unknown)
4) Percival Auburn Williams (born 11th August, 1875)
5) Robert T. (Thomas?) Williams
6) 1878 Amelia Maryann Williams

These names do not occur in the Burns/Telford side of the family.

Thank you for giving me the website - I looked at it but it means I have to subscribe and I have already subscribed to too many of late.

I recall coming across a Sarah Lewis during trawling through websites. It does seem that David would have been a twin to Sarah Jane. It's probably just another coincidence, but my father, son of Amelia Williams was a twin. I am not sure what step to take next...

Kind regards

Maree





Re: Sarah Martin

Posted: 14 Jul 2010 7:02AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Williams
PS.

I forgot to add that the first born, Clarence, was called Clarence Spencer Williams.

Re: Sarah Martin

Posted: 14 Jul 2010 7:26AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Williams
PPS

A relative from Tasmania has just emailed me informing me that Robert William's name was Robert Traton Norman Williams.
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