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ancestors of johan christian dahl

ancestors of johan christian dahl

Posted: 6 Apr 2009 12:48AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: dahl
I am trying to determine if we are related to this norwegian landscape painter (1788-1857). My grandmother was named Bertha Dahl Sabo (she married Halvor Sabo), probably in Bergen, where my grandmother was born and married Trygve de Lange. Any information on johan christian dahl's ancestors would be be appreciated...thank you!
Margit Pack

Re: ancestors of johan christian dahl

Posted: 6 Apr 2009 10:35AM GMT
Classification: Query
You can find record of the parents of Johan Christian Dahl (b. Feb 1788) in the records of the FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0 which is available for your free use at http://www.familysearch.org/eng/default.asp

But knowing the ANCESTORS of Johan C. Dahl is NOT going to help you try to link him to either of the two women you call grandmother above since they are probably born after he was.

First find those two women (you'll need to have important dates to be able to do that) and in researching their ancestry you might find some linkage to the earlier artist.

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wgnorway/good-queries.htm

Re: ancestors of johan christian dahl

Posted: 6 Apr 2009 11:33AM GMT
Classification: Query
Thank you so much! Sorry for my error... Bertha Dahl was my maternal GREAT-grandmother..so if my grandmother Margit Sabo (who married Trygve de Lange) was born around 1890 we figure Bertha Dahl was born around 1860 so she probably was born around the time JC Dahl died.
I checked the link you suggested and JC Dahl had 5 children but I didn't find any information on their children..I guess it would be one of his boys that might have fathered my maternal great-grandmother, if the genetic link is that close. My middle name is Dahl and my mother had a picture of JC Dahl in her drawer and she had told me he was an ancestor and that I was named for a famous Norwegian painter. We are planning a vacation in May to Norway. Thank you so much! Maggi

Re: ancestors of johan christian dahl

Posted: 6 Apr 2009 1:45PM GMT
Classification: Query
Learn about Norwegian naming patterns and practices of the time. Dahl would be an ADDRESS rather than a surname for the non-nobility classes. Study and learn:
http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~norway/na12.html
http://www.uib.no/hi/nameprac.htm
http://www.norwayheritage.com/norwegian-names.htm
http://www.nndata.no/home/jborgos/names.htm

You haven't left yourself much time to investigate the origins of Trygve and Margit. There are many Norwegian resources available online but it takes some study and practice to get thoroughly acquainted with using them well.

To research ancestors ANYWHERE you need to have more information, when born? when immigrated to US? "around 1890" and "around 1860" is a tiny bit of information and makes for a very bad start for your research. You should have learned much more about at least Trygve and Margit from US records such as censuses, tombstones, family records, etc. There are many Norwegian resources available online but it takes some study and practice to get thoroughly acquainted with using them well.

It might be possible to find Trygve and Margit leaving Norway from the port of Bergen - I am guessing they should be a married couple by the time of their departure and Bergen emigrant records will surely give a bit more information about their dates and locations of birth. The Digitalarkivet website has a database of Bergen emigration records searchable online.
Learn to use the Digitalarkivet website:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~norway/DigitalArchives.html

I find in the database of persons sailing from Bergen that Trygve and Margit left from that port on or about 26 June 1916 with an intended destination of somewhere close to Racine, Wis., USA:
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbas...
Trygve appears with his family in the 1900 Norwegian census in the city of Bergen:
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbas...
Margit appears with her family in the 1900 Norwegian census in the parish of Aarstad (Årstad), Hordaland:
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbas...

Use for translating many words of Norwegian:
http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~norway/na17.html
http://home.online.no/~otjoerge/files/word.htm
http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~norway/census_abbreviations.h...

Good basics to study before you begin your research into your Norwegian ancestry:
http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~norway/articles.html
Velkommen to Norway Genealogy - Norwegian family history resources

Good luck and enjoy your research. I doubt the connection to Johan Christian Dahl can be proved out - but you should enjoy the genealogy hunt anyway.

Re: ancestors of johan christian dahl

Posted: 6 Apr 2009 7:30PM GMT
Classification: Query
You are amazing! You've found my grandmother's whole family, and I only knew of her one sister, Tante Anna. On the census list from Aarstad you found their mother, Berthe and father Halvor. Berthe Saebo, whose maiden name was Dahl, was supposedly related to JC Dahl. You confirmed that Margit and Trygve indeed left Bergen for Racine where my mother was born in 1918. Thank you for all those links and yes, I have a lot of work to do! Thank you so much!
Margit Dahl Witmer-Pack (Maggi)
packm@rockefeller.edu

Re: ancestors of johan christian dahl

Posted: 9 Apr 2009 2:47AM GMT
Classification: Query
The census record you say shows Berthe Sæbo (maiden name Dahl) shows she is born in Manger, in Hordaland, south of Bergen area, in 1852.

http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbas...


4109 1 Halvor Sæbø m b Hf g Værksarbeider 1854 Manger SB n s
4110 Berthe Sæbø k b Hm g Husmoder 1852 Manger SB n s
4111 Halvor Sæbø m b S ug Søn 1885 t n s
4112 Anna Sæbø k b D ug Datter 1887 t n s
4113 Augustin Sæbø m b S ug Søn 1890 t n s
4114 Margit Sæbø k b D ug Datter 1895 t n s
4115 Sigvarda Sæbø k b D ug Datter 1897 t n s

She really wouldn't have had a maiden name, she would have had her father's name + datter as a patronym. Dahl could have been the farm name.

Could this have been the gravestone of the couple?
http://www.disnorge.no/gravminner/bilde.php?id=356166



Re: ancestors of johan christian dahl

Posted: 9 Apr 2009 3:28AM GMT
Classification: Query
Skip that last idea. I think It was the wrong couple, wrong area, similar names.

But here is a Brithe, b. 1857 in Manger, like the woman on the 1900 census, who is baptised and living at a Dahle farm.

http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbas...


6817 6817 67 1803 Berthe Marie k 0904 H.D. conf. Grdbrg. Knud Olsen Ingeborg Hansdtr Dahle af Nils Monsen Dahle 1857 Ægte Herløe

I would like to find her marriage, or at least more details about her life.

Here is Berthe M. Knudsdatter Dahle b. 1857 on the 1865 census.

I'm still digging to see if this Berthe is related to your first (trying to find if she is married to a Halvor Sæbo eventually)

In order to find if she is related, maybe the Manger Bygdebok would have a family history of the farm in it, and on that farm and family history for Manger, the artist JCDahl might be listed.

Here is the 1865 census:

http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbas...

District no. Page School distr. Local parish Parish Farm Remarks (farm) Title
733 10 451 33de, 32de, 31te, 30te Herlø Manger Dahle* 679a 1
Pers.no. Household Given name Last name Family pos. Occupation Marital status Age Sex Birth place Cattle Sheep Oat Potatoes
4389 12 1 Knudt Ols. Husfader Gaardbr Bygselmand g 47 m Manger 3 7 1 1/2 3
4390 13 Ingeborg Hansd. hans Kone g 55 k Manger
4391 14 Olina Knudsd. deres Datter ug 18 k Manger
4392 15 Berthe M. Knudsd. deres Datter ug 9 k Manger
4393 16 Mons Johns. Tjennestekarl ug 18 m Manger


This could be the death of your Halvor Sæbo
Døde i Årstad (Bergen) 1915-1980

http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbas...


5494 0 1311 1943 Solheim gamlehj. Begravet Solheim. Avdød Enkemann, fhv. Verksarb. Halvor Sæbø Vikensgt. 6 m Manger 1854 1501 0711

died Nov. 7, 1943, buried Nov. 13.
Solheim oldpeople's home, buried in Solheim, widower, Halvor Sæbø. address? Vikensgt. #6. born in Manger, 1854, Jan 15.



Re: ancestors of johan christian dahl

Posted: 9 Apr 2009 3:47AM GMT
Classification: Query
I googled Johan Christian Dahl, and found that his full name in Norway, including his father's +sen is

Johan Christian Claussen Dahl
February 24, 1788 – October 14, 1857
so his father should be named Claus. (Klaus)

Johan Christian Dahl
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

J. C. Dahl, Outbreak of the Vesuvius (1826), Städelsches Kunstinstitut, Frankfurt am Main.
J. C. Dahl, Lyshornet near Bergen (1836), National Museum of Art, Oslo.Johan Christian Claussen Dahl, often known as J. C. Dahl (letter "J" should be pronounced as the letter "I" in Norwegian), (February 24, 1788 – October 14, 1857), was a Norwegian landscape painter, who was connected to the Romantic movement. He was born in Bergen, and is considered to be "the father of Norwegian landscape painting".[1] He formed his style without much tuition, remaining at Bergen until he was twenty-four, when he left for the better field of Copenhagen, and ultimately settled in Dresden in 1818. There he was much influenced by the great German Romantic painter Caspar David Friedrich. He is usually included in the German school, although he was thus close on forty years of age when he finally took up his abode in Dresden, where he was quickly received into the Academy and became professor.

German landscape-painting was not greatly advanced at that time, and Dahl contributed to improve it. He continued to reside in Dresden, though he travelled into Tirol and in Italy, painting many pictures, one of his best being that of the Outbreak of Vesuvius, 1820. He was fond of extraordinary effects, as seen in his Winter at Münich, and his Dresden by Moonlight; also the Haven of Copenhagen, and the Schloss of Friedrichsburg, under the same condition. At Dresden may be seen many of his works, notably a large picture called Norway, and a Storm at Sea. He was received into several academic bodies, and had the orders of Vasa and St. Olav sent him by the king of Norway and Sweden.

Johan Christian Dahl
[Norwegian Romantic Painter, 1788-1857]

• Also known as: Johan Christian Clausen Dahl
Jens Christian Dahl
On site shows that he died in Dresden?
b Bergen, 24 Feb 1788; d Dresden, 14 Oct 1857).

so if he had kids, they wouldn't have been born in Norway according to his biographical info.

He could have roots at the same Dahle farm that your ancestors did, and possibly be related, but it doesn't seem likely that he is your direct ancestor. If he died in Dresden in 1857, and Berthe/Brithe Sæbø is born in 1857 . . .

Re: ancestors of johan christian dahl

Posted: 9 Apr 2009 12:31PM GMT
Classification: Query
Thank you for you investigating.. you are a pro! So my grandmother was the Margit Saebo,and her parents were Berthe Dahl Saebo and Halvor Saebo. I think there may be a relation to JC Dahl because my mother and grandmother told me that and also I remember they had a painting of his..which is lost. My brief search of JC Dahl, if correct, showed that he and had 5 children, only 2 of which lived very long. By his 1st wife Dorothea Franzisca Emilie Freiinvon Block (m 12 Jun 1820 Dresden)he had Siegwald born 16 Aug 1827 Dresden and Caroline born 1822. I'd like to find their children and see if any of them could have been related to Berthe Dahl Saebo. Thank you for your interest and help! Margit Dahl Witmer-Pack packm@rockefeller.edu

Re: ancestors of johan christian dahl

Posted: 9 Apr 2009 8:30PM GMT
Classification: Query
Thank you for that picture of the gravestone. I think this is the gravestone of my grandmother's parents, Halvor(Halvar) and Berthe (Birtha). It matches their names and their birthdates. Do you know were it is located?
Thank you!
Maggi
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