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Larsen - Need help finding information on my great great grandad's parents

Larsen - Need help finding information on my great great grandad's parents

Posted: 27 Jan 2013 9:00PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Larsen, Olsen, Eriksen
Hello!

I would really appreciate if anyone has any information on the parents of my great great grand dad.

His name is Mikael Larsen and was born in Bergen, Norway on the 20/3/1866. He immigrated to Australia and married Anna West in 1891. I know he is buried in Fremantle, Western Australia and died on the 8/2/1913.

The only information I have been told by my grandma is that their names are Lars Olsen and Andrea Eriksen. As this is all I know, I am unable to find anything further and the trail has gone cold.

Any help would be greatly appreciated :) hopefully this is enough information!

Thanks!
Holly

Re: Larsen - Need help finding information on my great great grandad's parents

Posted: 27 Jan 2013 11:25PM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi

Are you quite sure about his date of birth?

Here is a Mikal with parents Lars Olsen and Andrea Eriksdatter(Eriksen) born in Austrheim near Bergen.
But he was born 20/5/1865.
No 21:
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=11583&...
Permanent bildelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20070511670575....

Vivi

Re: Larsen - Need help finding information on my great great grandad's parents

Posted: 27 Jan 2013 11:37PM GMT
Classification: Query
Luckily he was born in 1865 rather than 1866. He appears in the 1865 Norwegian census with his parents in Lindås district of Hordaland -- not too far north of the city of Bergen.
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~norway/hordaland.html

The family living on a farm called Børilde with Mikkal's grandfather, grandmother and two uncles.
http://www.rhd.uit.no/folketellinger/ftliste_e.aspx?ft=1865&...

Mikkal's birth record in the Lindås parish books --
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1920&i...

You will notice his given name has been spelled with several variations.

Re: Larsen - Need help finding information on my great great grandad's parents

Posted: 28 Jan 2013 7:42AM GMT
Classification: Query
Thank you to the both of you for that information :)

It does appear then that we had the wrong information. Much appreciated!

At least now it will give me something to work with to find further information about Mikaels parents and so worth.

Would similar sites to the links provided be the best for this information? (ie birth/marriage/death records)?

Thanks!
Holly

Re: Larsen - Need help finding information on my great great grandad's parents

Posted: 28 Jan 2013 12:21PM GMT
Classification: Query
Resources for Norwegian genealogical information are varied and many!

The detail available in the extensive parish church records is a marvelous gift from Norway. The Digitalarkivet web site has been adding scanned images of the original Norwegian parish church records for anyone with Internet access since November 2005. To be able to use the parish records you must first know WHERE in Norway you want to search for this documentation.

The Digitalarkivet web site - (http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebFront.exe?slag=vis&a...)
An English option is available by clicking on that word from either the left hand column or the blue link bar along the bottom of the homepage.
The scanned images are available from the homepage link "Skanna kyrkjebøker" [Norwegian version]/"Digitised parish records" [English version] which is listed along the left hand column and from the blue banner of links along the top section of the homepage.
When you click on that link another page will present a short list of choices - choose "Read the digitized parish registers"[English version]/"Lesa skanna kykrebøker" [Norwegian version].
After you've clicked on that link and a new main page has presented on the screen be sure and read the instructions that are available from the Digitalarkivet for navigating the scanned records. The instructions are available in Bokmål (official Norwegian), Nyorsk (Norwegian), Davvisámegiella (Saami), and English.
Recommended basic reading are the "Startsiden" [Norwegian version]/"Main page" [English version], "Brukerveiledning" [Norwegian version]/"User's guide" [English version] and "Om tjenesten" [Norwegian version]/"About this service" [English version].

Good information about translating the formats of Norwegian parish church records during various time periods, many of the basic terms used and understanding how to use the information should be studied at this web site -
(http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~norway/na20.html)

As you probably noticed the Norwegian census of 1865 gave you some valuable information about the maternal earlier generation. The censuses of 1801 and 1865 have been made into searchable databases online.

Norwegian censuses of 1910, 1900,1875 (only partially online), 1865 and 1801 are online as searchable databases. Two websites with different search functions and strengths can be used.
(http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~norway/DigitalArchives.htm...)
(http://www.rhd.uit.no/indexeng.html)

Tips on Using Digitalarkivet (http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~norway/DigitalArchives.htm...)
Norwegian census abbreviations (http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~norway/census_abbrev...)
Norwegian censuses on NHDC website, instructions included (http://www.rhd.uit.no/indexeng.html)
FamilySearch has a large number of Norwegian births and marriages indexed (http://www.familysearch.org)

Norway has a tradition of publishing history and genealogy books for many rural districts of the country called 'bygdebøker'. You might be lucky enough to have had ancestors from one of the areas which has one or more good 'bygdebøker' published about it.
Learn about 'bygdebøker' (http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~norway/bygdebok.html)
Bygdebøker and Ættarbøker can be helpful but are definitely secondary sources of information -- any research done in them should be verified in the primary sources such as the parish church records.


Re: Larsen - Need help finding information on my great great grandad's parents

Posted: 28 Jan 2013 12:42PM GMT
Classification: Query
Wow that's great! Thanks heaps :)

Ill definitely check those links out!

Re: Larsen - Need help finding information on my great great grandad's parents

Posted: 3 Feb 2013 4:07PM GMT
Classification: Query
If this Mikal Larsen born just north of Bergen is your ancestor, maybe finding a little bit more can help either confirm him or rule him out.

Andrea Eriksdatter from Børilde farm was married twice.

http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbas...

Prot. ref. Page Year Married Local parish/Church
2162 Lindås mini A 16 117 1865 18.04. Lindaas
Role Position Given name Last name Residence Birth place Age
7962 Brudgom U:K: Tjener Lars Olssen Skaarholm Synnevaag 29
7963 Brur Pige Andrea Eriksdr Børilden 20 1/2
7964 Brudgom far Grdbr Ole Knuds: Skaarholm
7965 Brur far Grdbr Erik Johanness

Translation: Marriage in Lindaas church, 1865, 18 April, in Lindaas municipality of Hordaland County, in western Norway, just north of the city of Bergen.
The groom is unmarried hired man Lars Olssen Skaarholm born in Synnevaag. Age 29. Skaarholm is the farm name where he is living at the time of his marriage.
Bride, single girl Andrea Eriksdatter from Børilden farm, age 20 1/2. Her father is farm owner Erik Johannessen from Børilde.
Lars Olssen's father is Ole Knudsen Skaarholm, it shows he is a farm owner.

Andrea Eriksdatter married again, after the death of Lars Olsen.

http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbas...

Prot. ref. Page Year Married Local parish/Church
2633 Lindås mini A 16 172 1873 15.04. Lyre
Role Position Given name Last name Residence Date of birth Year of birth
9845 Brudgom U:K: Inderst Ivar Rasmussen Toftegaard 7/6 1850
9846 Brur Enken Andrea Eriksdr Børilden 8/5 1844
9847 Brudgom far Pldsmd Rasmus Hanssen
9848 Brur far Krmd Erik Johanness

Translation: Lindaas municipality, the local church called Lyre church, 1873, 15 April
Groom, bachelor and not a farm owner, (tenant farmer?) Ivar Rasmussen living at Toftegaard farm, born 7 June 1850.
Bride, the widow Andrea Eriksdatter from Børilden farm, born 8 May 1844.
Grooms father is Rasmus Hanssen, a tenant farmer
Bride's father is Erik Johannessen, who is listed as a Kaarmand, which means that he has passed the ownership of his farm to the next generation.

Andrea Eriksdatter is shown to have birthed 4 children.
One with her first husband Lars Olsen, and 3 with her second husband Ivar Rasmussen. Which included a single birth and a set of twins.

http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbas...

Prot. ref. Page Year Baptised
8495 Lindås mini A 11 177 1865 25.mai
Role Position Given name Last name Sex Residence Date of birth
25451 Barn Mikael m 20.mai
25452 Far Tjenere Lars Olssen Børilde
25453 Mor Andrea Eriksdr Børilde

Baptised 25 Mai (May) 1865, Mikael, male, born 20 Mai
father: hired worker Lars Olssen, Børilde
mother Andrea Eriksdatter Børilde.

It says he is born 20 Mai - wonder if with messy handwriting, that could have been confused with 20 Mar?
May, March in Norwegian is Mai, Mars

Also, since his parents married April 18, 1865, and he was born a month later, maybe the year of his birth was tweaked for scandal's sake? Hard to know.

Now with her 2nd husband Ivar, Andrea has more children:
They married April 15, 1873, and she was already pregnant.

http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbas...

Prot. ref. Page Year Baptised
10315 Lindås mini A 18 81 1873 20.jul
Role Position Given name Last name Sex Residence Date of birth
30911 Barn Alette Randine f 30.jun
30912 Far Inderst Ivar Rasmussen Toftegaard
30913 Mor Andrea Eriksdr Toftegaard

Born 30 June, 1873, daughter Alette Randine (Ivarsdatter), baptised 20 July, 1873
Father is worker Ivar Rasmussen, at Toftegaard
mother is Andrea Eriksdatter at Toftegaard farm. (residence)

The twins' baptisms also includes some extra information, including the marriage date of the parents.

http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbas...

Prot. ref. Page Year Baptised Remarks
11134 Lindås mini A 18 155 1877 11.feb v. 15/4 1873. Tvilling
Role Position Given name Last name Sex Residence Date of birth Year of birth
33368 Barn Edvard Elias m 05.jan
33369 Far Forpagter Ivar Rasmuss Børilden 1850
33370 Mor Andrea Eriksdr Børilden 1844

Born 5 Jan. 1877, baptised 11 Feb. 1877, twin Edvard Elias (Ivarssen) male,
father is forpagter (a type of tenant farmer) Ivar Rasmussen, living at Børilden, born 1850.
Mother is Andrea Eriksdatter living at Børilden, born 1844.
Parents of Edvard Elias were married 15 April 1873.

http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbas...

Prot. ref. Page Year Baptised Remarks
11135 Lindås mini A 18 155 1877 11.feb v. 15/4 1873. Tvilling
Role Position Given name Last name Sex Residence Date of birth Year of birth
33371 Barn Helene Randine f 05.jan
33372 Far Forpagter Ivar Rasmuss Børilden 1850
33373 Mor Andrea Eriksdr Børilden 1844

Born 5 Jan 1877, baptised 11 Feb 1877, parents marriage 15 Apr. 1873,
Twin Helene Randine, female.
Same description for parents as her brother.

In 1900 on the census, Mikael Larsen's mother and 1/2 siblings are living still in Lindaas area:
http://www.rhd.uit.no/folketellinger/ftliste_e.aspx?ft=1900&...

http://www.rhd.uit.no/folketellinger/ftliste_e.aspx?ft=1900&...

Census year: 1900
Municipality: Lindås
Municipality number: 1263
Name of domicile: Stavsundholmen
Number of persons in this domicile: 5

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Name Family status Marital status Occupation Birth year Place of birth Ethnicity
Iver Rasmussen hf g Gaardbrugende Husmand m J og Fisker 1851 Lindaas SB
Andrea Eriksdatter hm g Husmandskone 1844 Lindaas SB
Aletta Iversdatter d ug Tjenestepige husligt arbeide 1872 Lindaas SB
Edvart Iversen s ug Sjømand 1877 Lindaas SB
Kondrat Iversen fl ug Pleie-Søn 1887 Bergen

The other twin Alette is not with them. They have a foster son with them, Kondrat Iversen.

The farm where they live, Stavsundholmen in Lindaas (also spelled Lindås). the father Iver Rasmussen is listed as a working with farm work as a tenant farmer with land, and he is also supporting his family as a fisherman.


Re: Larsen - Need help finding information on my great great grandad's parents

Posted: 3 Feb 2013 4:29PM GMT
Classification: Query
I do not find him as an emigrant from Bergen, and also looked at Oslo. Is it possible that he was a sailor like his younger half brother is listed as on the 1900 census? Did he 'jump ship' or arrange his passage to work his way across? In that way, they are not usually listed on the emigrant registers.

I goofed on my earlier posting - the other daughter Helene - the twin, is not with them in 1900. Not sure if she died.

There are two more things to search. There is a bygdebok for Lindås - a farm and family history book. I will look for a lookups volunteer who might have that information.

Also, there is sometimes a register in a parish of those who asked permission to leave the parish. Mikael might be on that.

Re: Larsen - Need help finding information on my great great grandad's parents

Posted: 3 Feb 2013 6:07PM GMT
Classification: Query
Thanks so much Taryn!!

This is such interesting information that I will be taking back to my Grandma to find out and look into further. This is a lot of new information that we hadn't even considered before :)

She told me he was known as "master mariner" so yes I would guess that the possibility of him traveling with his brother over might just be the answer.

I much appreciate your help!

Re: Larsen - Need help finding information on my great great grandad's parents

Posted: 4 Feb 2013 2:59PM GMT
Classification: Query
The exact farm where the family was living with Andrea Eriksdatter's parents is helpful to know, since the records can often be traced to the farm - sometimes through a bygdebok, a farm and family history book which tells the history of the farm and those who lived on it.

The Andrea Eriksdatter and Lars Olsen family with son Mikael Larsen was living here in 1865, her parent's family farm.

Fylke (county in Norway): Hordaland
Kommune (municipality): Lindås
Sogn (local parish church): Austreim
Gårdsnummer (main farm number): 162
Gammelt matrikkelnr(the farm number that was from an older farm numbering system): 216
Navn på gård (name of the main farm : Børillen, also written Børilde or Børilden.

At Børilden there were several subfarms located there. In 1886 there were six little farms at Børilden/Børillen.
Andrea Eriksdatter's older brother Elias Eriksen had inherited by then, and the subfarm was subfarm 5 (out of 6)
which also had an older nuer: 785aa Børillen
Elias Eriksen

In 1900 Elias Eriksen was living there with his wife and kids:

http://www.rhd.uit.no/folketellinger/ftliste_e.aspx?ft=1900&...

Census year: 1900
Municipality: Lindås
Municipality number: 1263
Name of domicile: Børilden
Number of persons in this domicile: 5

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Name Family status Marital status Occupation Birth year Place of birth Ethnicity
Elias Eriksen hf g Gaardbruger S og Fisker 1841 Lindaas SB
Anna Andersdatter hm g Gaardmandskone 1845 Lindaas SB
Ingvald Eliassen s ug Gaardsdreng Fisker 1882 Lindaas SB
Ingeborg Eliasdatter d ug Tjenestepige (husligt arbeide) 1879 Lindaas SB
Inga Eliasdatter d ug Datter 1886 Lindaas SB

Elias was a farmer who owned the farm, and a fisherman. His kids are Ingvald, Ingeborg, and Inga. They are all helping at the farm, and the son Ingvald is also helping with the fishing.

If we could find their descendants, maybe there were old letters or something at the farm from your ancestor, or maybe even a modern DNA test could determine if you are related? That's a lot to ask of someone, but I see that genealogy DNA is more common nowadays.

What a difference 10 years makes. There is another census in Norway for 1910, and in that 10 year stretch since the previous census, Elias Eriksen has died, and his son Ingvald Eliasen has taken over the farm, married, and had 4 children. Ingvald's mother (Elias' widow) is living with the family still, as is her right as the former owner. The oldest son would generally inherit in Norway, the farm and the care of the parents for the remainder of their lives.

http://www.rhd.uit.no/folketellinger/ftliste_e.aspx?ft=1910&...


Census year: 1910
Municipality: Austrheim
Municipality number: 1264
Name of domicile: Børilden
Number of persons in this domicile: 7

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Name Family status Marital status Occupation Birth year Place of birth Ethnicity
Ingvald Elias. hf g Gaardbruker 29.02.1884 t
Ragna Bertelsd. hm g Gaardmandskone 07.05.1883 Evenvik
Children:
Hilmar Ingvalds. s ug søn 20.10.1903 t
Bergliot Ingvaldsd. d ug datter 28.09.1904 t
Emma Ingvaldsd. d ug datter 28.08.1906 t
Alf Ingvalds. s ug søn 28.12.1909 t
Anna Andersd. fl e Kaarkone 09.04.1845 t

some changes have been made to the structure of the government there, such as the municipality is Austreim - which was their parish earlier, still the same location, but maybe population growth caused the shift in offices.

The next time I am able to see the farm (if I don't have the Lindås Austreim bygdebok (history book) is in 1950 on the tax census online.

Farm 162 in Austreim parish in Hordaland, Norway, subfarm 5

Up to this point you have noticed that each generation uses their father's patronym, and their last name changes with each generation, plus with each new farm they move to. But in the early 1900's, Norway passed a law that made people choose a permanent family surname. As people moved away from rural parishes and farms, a better method of tracking them was needed.
So in 1950 on the tax list for Børillen farm, it shows that Ingvald E. Børilden is owning that subfarm 5. So it appears that Børilden is the family surname they have chosen, after the farm they live on.

5 Børillen 1 mark 28 øre Ingvald E. Børilden

http://www.dokpro.uio.no/cgi-bin/stad/matr50?task=s&fnr=...

I googled his name, and found that Ingvald Børilden is in Volume 3 of the Lindås Bygdebok,
Ingvald Børilden born 1884 Volume III page 534

Now to get someone to help with the Bygdebok.
I will work on that.



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