Search for content in message boards

Gilmer County: Holt/Smarr Indian Connection HELP

Gilmer County: Holt/Smarr Indian Connection HELP

Kara Dowell (View posts)
Posted: 1 Nov 1999 12:41PM GMT

Hi there. I am looking for the following.............my husband's Great Great Grandmother Birdie Ann Holt b 1875 Gilmer Co, married Seymore Smarr 1893 in Gilmer. They had a daughter Ora and son Hartsell.
I have been looking for Birdie for two years and cannot for the life of me get anything on her. I have found lots on her husband's family, but nothing on her. My mother in law went to Glenville, WV recently and found that Bird's marriage cert. did not list her parents and did not find her birth certificate. Now,
here's where I get lost. My mother in law is Bird's grandaughter and says Bird lived to be close to if not beyond 100 as did Seymore. She has pictures of them and remembers being told that when Bird was 17 or 18, Seymore went to an Indian Reservation and "fetched" her to be his bride. I have gotten responses from other Holt researchers who say the Holts were not Indians, no way, no how. My mother in law believed that Bird was full blooded from what she was told, but Holt researchers of WV say she couldn't have possibly been. So, therefore I am wondering if her mother possibly was. Now, my mother in law just recently obtained a few photos from her 85 year old uncle. One of Bird's father but of course all it says on the back is "Grandpa Holt" and her uncle can't recall his name. He was very, very dark in the picture so I am even more confused. She also got a picture of a young man her uncle said was Bird's step or half brother and it was labled T. J. Holt. Unfortunately neither picture helps. I was wondering if you could possibly search for Bird or T.J. in whatever info. you have as well as possibly help with the history of Indian Reservations/Settlements in the Virginia and
West Virginia areas during that time. I don't know much about the history, but maybe that will help somehow. My mother in law was told she was a Cherokee Indian. Any help or ideas, or advice would be so greatly appreciated. I am at a dead end with her.
Thanks so much for taking the time.
Sincerely,
Kara Dowell
DowFam3@aol.com

Re: Gilmer County: Holt/Smarr Indian Connection HELP

Harold (Norman) Higgins (View posts)
Posted: 27 Jul 2001 4:25PM GMT
Surnames: Smarr, Norman, Higgins
My Great Grandmother was Bird, my Grand mother Ora,
married into the Normans, my mother married into the
Higgins family.
Yes, Bird was Full blooded Cherokee. She was 105 when she
died. I've heard several stories about her life.
Seymore was 98 when he pass on. I have vivid memories of
the two visits to their home just out side of
Alliance. I have been trying to search my roots and this
(your message)is the first mention of Bird Smarr that I have come across. I have pictures of them together. and I was told that there is a picture somewhere of Bird and
either Daniel Boone or Davie Crockett when she was 15.
If you would like to compare notes or find out about
possible contacts.

I'll see if I can find some of the pictures and E-mail
them to you.
Please contact me. For I have limited time to search. But

Lucky Higgins
Full given name = Harold Norman Higgins

Re: Gilmer County: Holt/Smarr Indian Connection HELP

Kara (View posts)
Posted: 3 Jan 2002 5:45PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Holt, Smarr, Norman
Hi Lucky. I think I have written you before, but never heard from you. You are my mother in laws first cousin. Her father was Lester Norman of WV and his parents were Ora Smarr and Richard F. Norman. Ora's parents were Birdie and Seymore. I would like to hear from you. I sent you pictures once I believe.

Re: Gilmer County: Holt/Smarr Indian Connection HELP

Posted: 28 Jan 2002 9:08PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 3 Apr 2002 5:41PM GMT
Hi , I,m also looking for information on the Norman ,Holt ,Smarr were in the same area I,m decendent of William Norman and Martha Holt married 1829 Scioto Ohio think 3 children born of this union Sanford,Martha, Mary Ann Martha lived in Waverly Ohio Pike County Sanfordb.1832 in Scioto County married Arnold and Morrison any help would be appreciated Thanks

Re: Gilmer County: Holt/Smarr Indian Connection HELP

Posted: 12 Jul 2003 3:34AM GMT
Classification: Query
i would like info on birdie and seymore they were my gggrandparentsthanks email smarrs40@yahoo.com

Re: Gilmer County: Holt/Smarr Indian Connection HELP

Posted: 1 Jun 2005 3:17AM GMT
Classification: Query
please email me
smarrs40@yahoo.com
hartsel is my husands grandfather

Re: Gilmer County: Holt/Smarr Indian Connection HELP

Posted: 17 Jan 2010 4:39PM GMT
Classification: Query
If birdie was born 1875,and Crockett died 1836,and Boone died 1820, and first photo in history 1826, means possible photos of Birdie, a slight possibility of one of Crockett, but not one with Birdie and Crockett or Boone. It would have been a nice piece added to the family history though.

Re: Gilmer County: Holt/Smarr Indian Connection HELP

Posted: 19 Jan 2010 11:56PM GMT
Classification: Query
After reading all the posts I dug into what the internet had to offer.
Concerning Birdie,and Indian connection.
Parents-
Father- Tilford Barkley Holt(of English decent)Easy to trace.
Mother- Hettie Dart(hard to trace if of Indian decent)
Married-1874 (Hetti was 21 y.o.)

Hettie E. Short became Hettie Dart upon marrying Justic S. Dart when she was 16 y.o.
Hettie E. Short was the Daughter of John W. Short Born 1853

Now comes the gray area.

One report say she is the daughter of John w. Short and Elizabeth Riddle. Married 1836. "Decendants of John Riddle" and others never list Hettie E. as a child of the two. If any one has info otherwise please, share.

"Decendants of John Riddle" notes that John Short was apparently a widower that married Elizabeth Riddle(of English descent)( 21 y.o).

Records show John W. Short Marries Hetty Lingo 4-28-1829 in Delaware.

Passed down info.
Birdie full blooded Cherokee-(No, maybe 1/2 unless Shorts were Indian).
Birdie Found at an Indian Reservation when taken as a bride by Seymore Smarr.(Not sure where that came from.)
Hettie E. not listed in Riddle family, which seems accurate.
Note:Records on Indians...not kept.
English records...anal about who is the heir of what and about following lineage, Fairly accurate.

Possibility....
Hettie E. Short
Father- John W. Short
Mother- Indian on Resevation...maybe.( Child of Hettie E. Short-Birdie Ann Holt, found on an Indian Reservation by Seymore Smarr)(Not found as a child of John w. Short and Elizabeth Riddle in the Riddle record).
John W. Short- Widower of Hetty Lingo, husband of Elizabeth Riddle (maybe) has affair with Indian at the local reservation and names child Hettie(after first wife) E.(Elizabeth-after 2nd wife)Short.

Thus, left at the reservation with her mother(Hettie E. Short, born 1853)(Indian) and not recorded on the Riddle Line of descendants and no other history of orgin.
Marries Justic S. Dart-becomes Hettie Dart,then marries Tilford Barkley Holt and has Birdie Ann Holt...found on an Indian Reservation by Seymore Smarr.

Just a thought from all current records. Any corrections welcomed.

Harold Norman Higgins Jr,
contact me at:
Namronie@aol.com
hnhiggins@yahoo.com

Thank You





Re: Gilmer County: Holt/Smarr Indian Connection HELP

Posted: 23 Jan 2010 9:33PM GMT
Classification: Query
A couple notes to add...
Hettie (Dart)Short died about a year after Birdie's birth.
Tilford Bartley Holt Jr. remarries to a Louisa Catherine Sager
Possible- If Birdie's mother was at least half Indian, she may have been left by Tilford on the reservation with family when Tilford remarried. That is, if, Hettie E.(Dart)Short was born of an Indian mother.

Re: Gilmer County: Holt/Smarr Indian Connection HELP

Posted: 26 Mar 2010 12:22AM GMT
Classification: Query
Birdie is living with tilfordonthe 1880census she islisted as a son. instead of granddaughter.
per page

Find a board about a specific topic

  • Visit our other sites:

© 1997-2014 Ancestry.com | Corporate Information | New Privacy | New Terms and Conditions