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Corsican's are Italians... why are we part of France

Corsican's are Italians... why are we part of France

Greg (View posts)
Posted: 15 Jan 2005 4:31AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Corsica
I'm Corsican but I wish we were still part of Italy. We had throughout history been a part of Italy one way or another. Our last names are Italian, our language is a dialect of Italian. Napleon's family was from Pisa and Corsica. We should revolt and vote again for autonomy from France. Then we can start the process of reunifying with our mother country Italia!!!!

Re: Corsican's are Italians... why are we part of France

Colonel Hector Andres Negroni (View posts)
Posted: 17 Jan 2005 12:20PM GMT
Classification: Query
In order to answer your question you need to understand Corsican, Italian, and French history. Until 1861, Italy was a series of independent republics. From the middle of the 15th centurty until 1768, Corsica was controlled by Genoa (actually, it was the property of the Bank of St. Giorgio!). Genoa exerted a very repressive government of Corsica and, as a result, there is no great love between Corsica and the Italians. As a matter of fact, during WWII, Italy tried to occupy Corsica unsuccessfully. In 1768, Genoa ceded Corsica to France in order to pay the debts it had with the Bank of St. Giorgio. When the French defeated the Corsican troops in 1769, for all intent and purposes Corsican resistance stopped. However, even today, most Corsicans favor a great deal of autonomy. If you visit Corsica you will see a resurgence of Corsican pride, music, art, literature, and language.

Corsica has a fascinating and tragic history. Read it!

Re: Corsican's are Italians... why are we part of France

Greg (View posts)
Posted: 18 Jan 2005 7:27AM GMT
Classification: Query
You're right, the history is absolutely fascinating. Although I was being somewhat fecitious if one takes a step back and looks at the bigger picture, we really should be part of part of Italy. The Genovese may not have treated the Corsicans all that well, but our blood, tradition, language, and culture is of Italian influence and heritage. As I'm sure you know, Italy was for a long time a conglomeration of city-states and there were people "oppressed" by others. Although Corsica (after France had sent it 30,000 troops) lost the battle against the French, they didn't complain that much because France treated them better and was richer, but they have never seen themselves as French. Now I've lived in Italy multiple times and one thing that struct me was how proud each region was of its history and people. I remember this little old lady always refering to this other lady who was 80 yrs old and had moved to Florence from Pisa as the "Lady from Pisa". She was never seen as a native Florentine. Cosican's may see themselves as "different" but they're really Italian. I'm Corsican but I consider myself Corsican/Italian.

Re: Corsican's are Italians... why are we part of France

Greg (View posts)
Posted: 18 Jan 2005 7:29AM GMT
Classification: Query
You're right, the history is absolutely fascinating. Although I was being somewhat fecitious if one takes a step back and looks at the bigger picture, we really should be part of part of Italy. The Genovese may not have treated the Corsicans all that well, but our blood, tradition, language, and culture is of Italian influence and heritage. As I'm sure you know, Italy was for a long time a conglomeration of city-states and there were people "oppressed" by others. Although Corsica (after France had sent it 30,000 troops) lost the battle against the French, they didn't complain that much because France treated them better and was richer, but they have never seen themselves as French. Now I've lived in Italy multiple times and one thing that struct me was how proud each region was of its history and people. I remember this little old lady always refering to this other lady who was 80 yrs old and had moved to Florence from Pisa when she was only 13 yrs old, as the "Lady from Pisa". She was never seen as a native Florentine. Cosican's may see themselves as "different" but they're really Italian. I'm Corsican but I consider myself Corsican/Italian.

Re: Corsican's are Italians...

María F. Vallecillo (View posts)
Posted: 19 Mar 2005 6:23PM GMT
Classification: Query
As descendant of Corsicans I think they are delightful and unique. They have been at time French and at other times Corscians. I love to see the resurgence of their language and music. But, more than anything the are Corsicans, much in the same way that Puerto Ricans are Puerto Ricans, even though we are de jure US citizens.

Some of my fondest memories are going to Juana Díaz for Ephiphany to the house of my great uncle Virgilio (whose name I misspeled in the previous message). All the realtives would get together and there was a wonderful feeling of family and union throght some mystical island named Corsica. Before I die I will have to go to the Cap Corse where they all come and see its wonderful landscape and breathe its air, maybe I will undestand myself a bit more. I like Corsicans and many time when I am in one of those momentts when things have to be done, no matter what I feel Corsican.

By the way, are you related to Amarilys Negroni? Her mother Divina Carlo was a very good freind of my mother.

Best wishes, Marifé Vallecillo

Re: Corsicans are not Italians, they are Corsicans.

Colonel Hector Andres Negroni (View posts)
Posted: 19 Mar 2005 8:07PM GMT
Classification: Query
Marife:

I you had told my father, grandfather, great-grandfather that they were "Italians," they would have been offended. I remind you that until 1861, there was no "united Italy" and the Italian peninsula was composed of a group of independent city states. One of these city states, Genova, conquered and owned Corsica from 1559 until 1769. In 1769 Genoa (and more specifically The Bank of St. George) ceded its rights over Corsica to France. There was no love lost between the Corsicans and the Genoese. As far as today is concerned, I have visited Corsica often since we still own property in our ancestral village of Rogliano and I can tell you that, although the Corsicans speak French, the Corsicans consider themselves Corsicans first.

Yes, I highly recommend a visit to Capo Corso. More than a visit, it is a pilgrimage.

Preguntabas si conozco a Amarilys Negroni. No la conozco personalmente pero se quien es. Esta casada con Guillermo Feria. Amarilys es la hija de Ivan Negroni Lacroix y Lavinia Carlo Aymat. El bisabuelo Negroni de Amarilys (Pablo Negroni Lluberas) y mi bisabuelo (Andrés Negroni Lluberas) eran hermanos.

Saludos,

Héctor Andrés Negroni

Re: Corsican's are Italians...

Greg (View posts)
Posted: 19 Mar 2005 8:28PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Napoleon
The last thing I would do is liken the Corsicans to Peurto Ricans. Peurto Ricans are a mix of blacks, natives, and spaniards. The US is of mostly European ancestory, although the identity of the United States is slowing changing. There is a stark racial, cultural, and linguistic difference.

For the majority of the last 2300 thousand years, Corsica has always been part of "Italy" one way or the other. After Roman conquest and control for almost 700 years (where they had been latinized culturally, ethnically, and linguistically), the island had only conquered by other powers for a relatively short period of time before Pisa took control in 1077. After Pisa, the Genoese dominated the island from 1284 to 1729. Genoa sold the island to France for $$ in 1769.

Even Napolean, "Frances" greatest general, didn't see himself as French. In fact his name was changed from Buonaparte (Italian) to Bonaparte to sound more French. On Napoleon's father's side, the Buonaparte family claimed to descend from Genoese mercenaries who came to Corsica soon after 1490 or 1492. Note that by this time Genoa was a junior partner of Venice. On Napoleon's mother's side, the Ramolino claimed to be descended also from a Venetian, the Count of Coll'Alto. His mother hated the French and did not want Napolean to marry his eventual wife.

Keep in mind, it is true that the Coriscan's did not like how they were being treated by the Genoese, and so were more "willing" to be under French power, but they do not want to be seen as, and are not French. Keep in mind, the Florentines see themselves as Florentines, the Pisans Pisans, Romans Romans. To this day, Italians make distinctions as to exactly where they're from. Each city/region has an identity all to themselves and they are proud to make these distinctions, BUT THEY STILL SEE THEMSELVES AS ITALIANS. Corisca is to Italy, as Tuscany is to Italy, as Sardinia is to Italy, as Sicily and Naples and Venice is to Italy. To this day, they're language is a dialect of Italian. Try and find a summary of common phrases in Coriscan and compare it Italian. They're almost exactly the same. Make other cultural and racial comparisons, and you will realize that they should really be part of the Italian nation.

Re: Corsicans don't want to be "Italians"

Colonel Hector Andres Negroni (View posts)
Posted: 23 Mar 2005 11:50PM GMT
Classification: Query
Greg:

For the sake of ending this argument, I will agree with you that the people from the Italian peninsula left an indeleble mark in Corsica's history, language, culture etc. However, I know of no serious group in Corsica that would like Corsica to be part of Italy. As you may recall, during World War II Italy attempted to integrate Corsica into Italy. The rebellious Corsicans would have not of that and finally the Italian Army had to call for help from the German Army to pacify the Corsicans. You are probably the exception to the rule, a "Corsican" that wants Corsica to be part of Italy. Are you sure that you are Corsican? We still do not know your last name nor the name of your ancestral village. My Corsican roots can be traced on a straight line to the 10th Century.

Re: Corsican's are Italians... why are we part of France

Posted: 18 Jan 2008 4:37PM GMT
Classification: Query
Hola, Voy a escribir en spanish porque lo escribo mejor. Mi nombre es Carlos M. Fraticelli mi padre era Carlos E. Fraticelli nacido en Adjuntas Puerto Rico pero criado en Ponce,PR. Mi abuelo era Carlos Fraticelli-Fraticelli vino a Puerto Rico de Corsica a los finales del 1800 o principios del 1900, se ubico en Adjuntas,PR. murio en 1986 en Ponce,PR a los 96 anos. Vine a saber que tenia sangre Corsa en el 1959 o 1960 cuando mi padre que era militar (23 anos US ARMY) y viviamos en Alemania viajamos a Marseille Francia a ver el hermano de mi abuelo y familia. Alli supe que mi biceabuela era Fraticelli y biceabuelo era Fraticelli, pero no eran familia. Mi biceabuelo nacio en Corsica y mi biceabuela nacio en Italia (Genoa o Sicily). Le pregunte a mi padre si eramos Franceses,Italiano o que y el le pregunto a su tio, el contesto (Corsi vivi o morty) en otras palabras Corsos vivos o muertos. Por eso me identifico con los Corsos. Porque aunque yo sea ciudadano Americano, soy puertorriqeno y los Corsos aunque sean ciudadanos Franceses primero son Corsos. Si alguien sabe historia sobre este Corso,(mi abuelo) CARLOS FRATICELLI-FRATICELLI que llego a mi querida isla Borinquen isla del cordero (PUERTO RICO) y creo 5 generaciones de FRATICELLI DE DESCENDENCIA DE LA ISLA DE CORSICA, POR FAVOR E-MAIL ME A ESTE E-MAIL sylvia.fe@hotmail.com o escribeme; Carlos M. Fraticelli 7141 Hickory Branch, Cir. Orlando,FL.32818-3356 TEL 407-521-5498 MUCHAS GRACIAS.

Re: Corsican's are Italians... why are we part of France

Posted: 18 Jan 2008 8:57PM GMT
Classification: Query
I do not where you live nor if you visit Corsica regularly as I do. I can tell you that you would find little support in Corsica for any union with Italy. This is a fact. You are entitled to your own opinion but not to your own facts.

Negroni
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