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Johnsons of Kent

Johnsons of Kent

Posted: 18 Nov 2012 12:39AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 19 Nov 2012 4:37PM GMT
We are trying to locate relatives of Alfred George Johnson, who changed his name on arrival in the United States to George William Johnson. He married Letitia Ann Doyle a/k/a Letitia Lily Mitchell. If anyone in Kent knows of Alfred George (born 1881) or his wife Letitia, please send an e-mail in the U.S. to richpersen@aol.com

Many thanks in advance.

Here is a link to our research-to-date:

http://o.mfcreative.com/f4/exports/f/f82840dd-0d83-446c-9edc...

Re: Johnsons of Kent

Posted: 18 Nov 2012 7:36PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Jhnson
Hi

Did Alfred marry in the uk or the states?..If so do you have their marriage cert?...Did he mention at any time in his life,the christian names of his parents?

Did he mention any towns in Kent,that he knew as a young man?I have only come across one Alfred George Johnson born in 1881,and that occurred in Gravesend,Kent.Do you know of his actual date of birth?...He may also of lied about the year he was born....

Kind regards John (Kent)....UK

Re: Johnsons of Kent

Posted: 19 Nov 2012 4:14PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 19 Nov 2012 4:18PM GMT
Thanks for your caring response, John. I share this account with my wife, Judy Persen. I am Richard Donald James Persen. My mother was Eileen Mary Catherine Johnson Persen.

Our research indicated that my grandfather was Alfred George William Johnson. He dropped the "Alfred" and only used George William Johnson after his arrival in the U.S.A. in December, 1913. (Alfred) George and his wife, Letitia have no record of marriage in the U.K., however Letitia used the name Letitia Lily Mitchell while in the U.S., but our research indicated that her real name was Letitia Ann Doyle. Both of them did not have birth certificates when they arrived as passenger tourists on the Red Star Line. They decided to stay. The actual date of birth was (presumably) 5-May-1881. However, I cannot get an exact match on that date. Christian names of (Alfred) George's parents were: George William Johnson (father), and Emma Tennyck Johnson (mother). We are not certain of the spelling of Emma's maiden name (TenEyck/Tennick). There was a lot of fibbing going on, and that makes all this quite interesting. My uncle George Alfred Patrick Johnson is still alive, but has emphysema is not well. Any help you can give me on this would be tremendously appreciated. I have a complete research summary in PDF format. I can send you that if you would like. It has pictures of (Alfred) George and Letitia.

Sincerely,
Rich Persen

Re: Johnsons of Kent

Posted: 22 Nov 2012 5:02AM GMT
Classification: Query
Rich

John has put you along the right path.

On the 1891 census for Gravesend is this family:
Name Age
George William Johnson 36
Emma Johnson 37
Ada Johnson 12
Alfred George Johnson 9

That puts Alfred George as born around 1881/82, which fits with the reference John quoted (Johnson, Alfred George - Gravesend - 2a/465) That reference can be used to get a copy of his birth certificate from the General Register Office (www.gro.gov.uk) The certificate will confirm his date of birth and also the spelling of his mother's name (or at least the spelling used at that time.

Intriguingly, there is a marriage for an Alfred George Johnson in March qtr 1903, to either Annie Atkinson or Alice Minnie Mason, also in Gravesend. The place a date (he would be about 21 yrs) make it a possibility that this is your grandfather, though by no means certain. It might be worth getting that marriage certificate just to check. Also look for possible Johnson deaths in the following years to find out what happened to that wife. Could it be (heaven forbid) that he ran away with Letitia?

This info mostly from www.freebmd.org.uk.

Nigel
(I have Johnsons in my family from Kent, but not as far as I know related to yours :-( )

Re: Johnsons of Kent

Posted: 22 Nov 2012 8:22AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: johnson
Hi

Do you know how you came by the maiden name of Alfred's mother? I have tried to trace Alfred's baptism with no success so far.The parents do seem to be to much of a coincidence.I have not been able to trace their marriage neither,unless they married elsewhere other than Gravesend.

I have traced a Alfred George Johnson,who died in Gravesend in 1939 and was born in 1881,wheather this is the same one that i traced earlier,i wouldnt like to say.As nigel said earlier,it would be best to get his birth cert to see if he was born on May 5th.Did you know also,that Princess Phocohontas is buried in Gravesend?

kind regards john
PS...i wonder if they married on board ship whilst on their way to the states?

Re: Johnsons of Kent

Posted: 22 Nov 2012 1:29PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Johnson Doyle
Thanks again for your rapid response.

Please take a peek at this: http://o.mfcreative.com/f4/exports/f/f82840dd-0d83-446c-9edc...

We believe that Alfred's mother was Emma Tennick. He was raised as a Roman Catholic, so that should narrow things down a bit. As I said previously, (Alfred) George William Johnson used the name "George William Johnson" while/whilst in the U.S.A. I have never been able to identify a birth certificate--only an indication of a May 1881 date of birth.

(Alfred) George died at New City, New York, Rockland County, U.S.A. on 09-May-1934.

Kind regards,
Richard

P.S. Regarding marriage on the ship--the ship manifest uses Johnson for both parties as a last name. Perhaps they never were married. Who would know? They both conveniently lost their birth certificates.

Re: Johnsons of Kent

Posted: 22 Nov 2012 1:29PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Johnson Doyle
Thanks again for your rapid response.

Please take a peek at this: http://o.mfcreative.com/f4/exports/f/f82840dd-0d83-446c-9edc...

We believe that Alfred's mother was Emma Tennick. He was raised as a Roman Catholic, so that should narrow things down a bit. As I said previously, (Alfred) George William Johnson used the name "George William Johnson" while/whilst in the U.S.A. I have never been able to identify a birth certificate--only an indication of a May 1881 date of birth.

(Alfred) George died at New City, New York, Rockland County, U.S.A. on 09-May-1934.

Kind regards,
Richard

P.S. Regarding marriage on the ship--the ship manifest uses Johnson for both parties as a last name. Perhaps they never were married. Who would know? They both conveniently lost their birth certificates.

Re: Johnsons of Kent

Posted: 22 Nov 2012 5:54PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: johnson
Hi Richard

Sorry to be a pain,but i have looked at the info you have researched,but have not seen how you come to know of Alfred's mother's maiden name.

There is a catholic church in Gravesend,but i believe you have to make a payment to them to be able to trace the baptism that you require.If you think that the Alfred George Johnson registered in September qtr is your's,it would be best to apply for the certificate.

regards john

Re: Johnsons of Kent

Posted: 25 Nov 2012 1:21AM GMT
Classification: Query
Richard, John is absolutely right.
The history you have to date contains too much conjecture. You NEED the documentary evidence only certificates can give you, whether it s to prove or disprove a connection.
I strongly urge you to get the birth certificate quoted for Alfred, also the one for Letita (Camberwell 1889), and that 1903 marriage I quoted.

I hate to say it, but to me, until those documents prove otherwise, it seems highly possible your grandfather and Letita ran off to America leaving his wife and children behind.

Re: Johnsons of Kent

Posted: 26 Nov 2012 9:19PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Johnson/Tennick
HI Richard

I hate to put a dampner on things...but the Alfred George Johnson that was born in the September qtr year of 1881...i have found that he never left Gravesend....he died in Gravesend in the June qtr year of 1939 aged 58 yrs.

This means that your alfred either lied about that he was born in Kent,or perhaps his birth did not get registered,or he lied about the year of his birth...it certainly is a mystery....but most family tree's are....sorry to mention this again....but you still have not explained how you got to believe his mother's name was Tennick.The surname is more common in the North of Great Britain....than it is in the South....still cannot trace a Tennick/Johnson marriage tho....

kind regards John
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