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Vienna 1907 - birth record for illegitimate child?

Vienna 1907 - birth record for illegitimate child?

Posted: 4 Jan 2013 11:29PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Dehmel, Gunn, Lynch, Ottman
I am seeking a record of the birth of my grandmother who was born in Vienna in 1907. She was illegitimate. Her mother and father were probably from Dublin/London. I believe her mother was originally from a German family which emigrated to New York around 1880. The family prospered in America and Frieda Ottman (probably my g grandmother) moved to Dublin where she married into an upper class family. I believe that she had an affair (possibly with a member of the Gunn family) and in 1907 went to Vienna to give birth discretely. She returned to Dublin with her daughter named Joyce Frieda Dehmel (or Demel). Later her daughter took the name Gunn. Date of birth is stated as 10/7/1907 but this might be American format = October 7, 1907 or European = 10 July, 1907. Any help or local contact would be most welcome.

Re: Vienna 1907 - birth record for illegitimate child?

Posted: 6 Jan 2013 4:28PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 6 Jan 2013 5:01PM GMT
if stayed for a time in Vienna both must have been registered also and possible to find at:
Wiener Stadt- und Landesarchiv
Historische Meldeunterlagen (1904-1975) - Auskunft
Municipal and Provincial Archives
Historic registration records (1904-1975) - Report
http://www.wien.gv.at/amtshelfer/kultur/archiv/forschung/his...

e-mail-adress at "Zuständige Stelle" or:
http://www.wien.gv.at/advuew/internet/AdvPrSrv.asp?Layout=st...

the possibility for secretly birth at "Vienna Findelhaus" Alserstrasse/Alser-street 23. it was closed 1910:
Due to the Foundling Hospital, but also of the other hospitals in the area, has the Alser-parish church Matriken(churchbooks)archive currently the largest in Europe. Until 1 January 1939, the parish had the function of a civil registry office. After the arrangement made by Joseph II, 20 February 1784 could be entered only with the request of the Father of the illegitimate children. but the parish has, as well as others in the territory, created a separate directory for the fathers.
http://www.habsburger.net/de/medien/das-wiener-findelhaus-de...
http://de.muvs.org/topic/das-wiener-gebaer-und-findelhaus/
http://www.alservorstadt.at/ansichten/alser_strasse_23_finde...
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiener_Findelhaus
http://www.habsburger.net/de/kapitel/das-wiener-findelhaus-z...
http://maps.google.at/maps?hl=de&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r...

Alserchurch has the biggest archive of Europe where the children have been baptisted ans stated. so ask also there if your grandma is in their files. the lastname will be Demel. this is a wellknown name in Vienna.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alserkirche
Alser-parish-church: http://www.erzdioezese-wien.at/edw/organisation/vikariate/de...
http://maps.google.at/maps?hl=de&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r...

the wellknown Demel in Vienna - maybe a connection?
THE HISTORY
Everything began in the year 1786 when confectionary assistant Ludwig Dehne from Wuerttemberg settled in Vienna.: http://www.demel.at/index_flash.htm
http://www.viennatouristguide.at/Altstadt/Kaffeehaus/Demel/k...
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_Dehne
ok, the Demel are not related to the former owner Dehne -> As the son of August Dehne pursued a different career as a lawyer, sold the confectionery Dehne 1857 his oldest companions, Christoph Demel, including all privileges. The business was moved to the carbon market, and was continued by his sons Joseph and Charles, since it says "Christoph Demel's Söhne".
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_Dehne_%28Zuckerb%C3%A4ck...
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demel
Demel-chronic: http://www.philodex.net/blog/demelchronik

Re: Vienna 1907 - birth record for illegitimate child?

Posted: 6 Jan 2013 4:38PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 6 Jan 2013 4:54PM GMT
have seen this other posting. very interesting that the former owner Dehne of Vienna came from Württemberg-area, Germany also like Karl Robert Schmutz. Whether this is by accident?
"Everything began in the year 1786 when confectionary assistant Ludwig Dehne from Wuerttemberg settled in Vienna."
http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.schmutz/29.1/mb.ashx

Baden-Württemberg: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baden-W%C3%BCrttemberg
Lörrach: http://maps.google.at/maps?hl=de&gs_rn=1&gs_ri=hp&am...

Re: Vienna 1907 - birth record for illegitimate child?

Posted: 6 Jan 2013 5:01PM GMT
Classification: Query
Thank you so much for the wealth of sources and incredibly helpful further research pointers.

I will follow these up over the next couple of weeks. There is a family rumor that the name 'Demel' or 'Dehmel' came from Frieda Ottman's mother's (Iden)family place of origin (near Hamburg) in Germany; or possibly that Frieda choose the name after the German poet Richard Dehmel

I should have also emphasized that my (probable) g grandmother was from a wealthy family and married to a very wealthy man. She would have been able to afford to employ private nurses to help her give birth. She was also not a Roman Catholic (Presbetarian) but the baby Joyce Frieda Gunn was later described as Roman Catholic.

Thank you again for all your help

Charles

Re: Vienna 1907 - birth record for illegitimate child?

Posted: 7 Jan 2013 9:03AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 7 Jan 2013 9:04AM GMT
now, if was not the Foundling Hospital at roman.cat. Alserchurch it does´nt matter.
maybe the historical registration records can bring a result with info.

Re: Vienna 1907 - birth record for illegitimate child?

Posted: 7 Jan 2013 6:40PM GMT
Classification: Query
Thank you Mohnbauer for your expertise and your, warmly welcomed, suggestions. We will follow the lines and, hopefully, find a conclusion. If we are able to help your research, I hope it will be possible... Thank you again

Charles & Tricia

Re: Vienna 1907 - birth record for illegitimate child?

Posted: 2 Sep 2014 5:08PM GMT
Classification: Query
Hello - this is a bit of an old thread but hoping someone will read it. Do you know if the only access to the Alserkirche church books are at the church itself? I emailed the matriken contact from the church website to see if they could look up a record for me but I have gotten no reply. Do I need to hire someone to go search for me? I believe my great-grandmother was born in the foundling home on the same block. I sent to for the microfilms on the foundling house births from LDS but they are still processing those. Hope to finally get some answers on her origin. Thanks.

Re: Vienna 1907 - birth record for illegitimate child?

Posted: 6 Sep 2014 10:53PM GMT
Classification: Query
The parish books of Alservorstadt (parish Allerheiligste Dreifaltigkeit) ("Alserkirche") are on the list to come online (http://www.matricula-online.eu). But it seems as this would be not before November.

In the meantime you can take a look on www.genteam.at

Re: Vienna 1907 - birth record for illegitimate child?

Posted: 7 Sep 2014 3:57PM GMT
Classification: Query
Thank you for the information! I have looked at both of those sites before but have not yet found any relevant records. I'm glad to hear Alserkirche is coming online soon. I will definitely keep checking.

Re: Vienna 1907 - birth record for illegitimate child?

Posted: 7 Sep 2014 8:00PM GMT
Classification: Query
Here are some possible sources

If you haven’t stumbled on this already , the Anglo German Family History Society.
http://www.agfhs.org/site/

Very useful - Meldeunterlagen accessed from the link: www.wien.gv.at/english/history/archives/ancestors.html .
Apparently the records cover the period 1904-75 and were compiled by the Viennese police. If you scroll down to click Meldearchiv, you can then fill in the online form provided ( Formular) , giving as much detail as you know to identify the individual : name , approximate
date of birth, profession if possible etc. Children turn up under their parents‘ file. You have to state on the form that it is your grandmother(or grand father etc) to get round the Austrian privacy laws. The search is free but it may take up to two months for a response.
You can ask for up to 5 individuals' entries, and presumably permutations of the name required.

Also might be worth a try . http://www.ihff.at
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