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Whitebread's in England

Whitebread's in England

Peggy Foulk (View posts)
Posted: 21 May 2000 5:44PM GMT
Searing for Whitebread's in England. These names of family members in the early 1400's.
Anna Whitebread born: abt 1426 of Upminster, Essex, England Died: Upminster, Essex, England. Father: Thomas Whitebread, abt 1396, of Essexshire, England. Any help would be appreciated.

Re: Whitebread's in England

Posted: 3 Feb 2002 3:53PM GMT
Classification: Query
thats the same line i am tracing altho i dont think that i will be of much help.heres what i know. dame anna whitebread married sir reverand henry wright. he parents were thomas whitebread (b. 1396 in White Notley, Essex, England d.in Upminster, Suffolk, England.) and agnes hunte(Between 1386-1400 in Gosfield, Essex, England) i have nothing on agnes. thomas whitebreads parents are Christopher WHITBREAD(Abt 1345 in White Notley, Essex, England) and maude frenche i know nothing on her either. Christopher Whitbread's father was thomas WHYTEBREDE(b. 1305 in White Notley, Essex, England) his father john whytebrede(abt 1267 in Stapleford Tawney, Essex, Eng) johns wifes name was dorothy. i am thru dame anna whitebread and sir reverand henry wrights son sir reverand john wright(27 Oct 1450 in Dagenham, E.Kelvedon, Essex, Eng. d.9 May 1509 Kelvedon Hatch, Essex, Bocking, England) and thru his son Lord Of Kelvedon, Baron john wright(1485 in Upminster, Essex, England)
I hope that this has been some help this is as faar back as i have on the whitebreads.

Re: Whitebread's in England

Posted: 31 Mar 2002 10:35PM GMT
Classification: Query
I have John Whitebread (b. 1548). Father listed as Thomas. Do you have the information that goes between what I have and what you have listed? Thanks!

Re: Whitebread's in England

Posted: 10 Sep 2010 9:40PM GMT
Classification: Query
The Whitebreads are related to the Wright family through marriage. John Wright was the son of Henry Rev Wright (1424-1509) in Upminster, Suffolk, England. John Wrights mother was Anna Whitebread (1425-1465) Upminster, England, Anna's mother was Agnes Hunt (1400-14300 and her husband was Thomas Whitebread (1396-1429). His father was Christopher Whitebread (1345-1399) (Essex, England) and his wife was Maud French daughter of Sir Adam Francis and Alice Champneis. I hope this will help. There are my ancestors. If you want go to my tree; The Wales Erickson family and you can see what I have. I also have many sources to back this up and I've had allot of help.

Re: Whitebread's in England

Posted: 14 Sep 2010 1:20AM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi Susan, I have seen this version of the Wright/Whitebread relationship many times on the internet. However, I have not been able to find any original sources to support this, and I believe it to be partly incorrect. Clearly, Anna Whytbrede is related to the White Notley (Essex) Whytbredes, but I have not seen any documentation to prove it. My assumption is that she is the brother of John Whytbrede (b. abt 1430), and daughter of Thomas Whytbrede (b. abt. 1396). I don't think the wife of Thomas is known. The Chrystofer Whytbred who married Maude French was John's grandson. The Thomas who married Agnes Hunt was his son. They married at White Notley 21st May 1553, more than a century later than is suggested by your tree. One other point, 'Upminster, Suffolk' is incorrect, even though it is always stated so. It was 'holden of' (held by) the Manor of Hoo Hall in Suffolk, but it is actually in the County of Essex.
If you want more details, drop me a mail. My email address can be found at the bottom of the link.

Steven Whitebread
http://www.one-name.org/profiles/whitebread.html

Re: Whitebread's in England

Posted: 14 Sep 2010 9:04PM GMT
Classification: Query
Yes, I do need help. I am working on a time line so I can keep all these people straight. It took me yrs to find my Father's true family so I figured I can finish this line. I knew I had the Whitebreads screwed up but I did hope to sit down and unscrew it......I'll be on it in the am. Thank you for your help.

Susan

Re: Whitebread's in England

Posted: 2 Aug 2011 7:57PM GMT
Classification: Query
Since you nearly quote the Whitebread:Wright source I have, I am assuming that you have taken the "Advowson of Upminster church, holden of the manor of Hoo Hall in Suffolk" from Philip Morant's "The History and Antiquities of the county of Essex,..." Etc, Volume 2, p 121-122, under the Manor of White Notley heading.

TO Quote: " John Wright, Esq: For he dyed 5 May 1609*, possessed of the maner of White Notley, and the advowson of Upminster church, holden of the maner of Hoo-hall in Suffolk, by fealty and a yearly rent of 59 s. 8 d. worth 10 l per ann. clear. --John his son being of full age (a) [See account of this family under Keldon Hatch] The Quit-rent of 2 l. 19 s. 8 d. hath been purchased by John Wright, Esq. of the late Earl of Rochford, owner of Hoo-hall [X}. This maner continues full in the Wright family.

*it is believed by many that this date is a typographical error in the original document and incorrect for this John Wright and that it should be 5 May 1509. It is likewise believe that this John Wright was not possessed of White Notley but may have been possessed of Hoo-Hall manor in Suffolk and the advowson of Upminster. For possession of White Notely we must turn to another John Wright who died 25 May 1608. He was a different John Wright and Morant covers him in Volumne 1, page 185 within the discussion of the elder line of the Wrights of Kelvedon Hall under the Maner of Germins heading.

In Volume 2, page 122, Morant goes on with respect to the Whitebread family as follows:

"A family of some note, surnamed Whitebread, farmed White Notely hall of Lord Vaux at 10 marks yearly, and lived there for some time. They intermarried with the Smyths of Cressing"

This passage places the Whitebread family at White Notley during the lives of Thomas Lord Vaux, 1st Bt, or his son, William Lord Vaux, 2nd Bt., that is, a period from ca. 1530 to about 1590. Because it was William Lord Vaux who sold the manor of White Notley to John Wright, Esq in about 1590 is seems Morant is speaking here in one breath about two entirely separate eras in the history of White Notely, because Morant goes on to say, "And Ann, daughter of Thomas Whitebread married Henry Wright, father of John Wright, both of this place -- Some of the Whitebread family were also seated at Wrattle and Margareting (b)(Y).
They had an Estate here named Stanfields(#) which belongs now (1768) to Edward Tolladay, Gent."


Is is unclear where exactly "of this place" refers to and most have assumed it meant Henry and John were of White Notely. I believe Morant has confused the early Wright ancestors Henry and John (1424 - 1509) with the later John Wright (1535 - 1608) of Kelvedon Hall who purchased White Notely from William Lord Vaux, 2nd Bt. In the course of doing that, he has bollixed up the timelines for his readers without giving them a lead.

# "Estate here" in this last statement is also a bit vauge and you would think it refers to White Notley. Edward Tolladay was born in 1715, married Mary Smith in 1740 and was, according to Morant, in possession of the Stanfields farm in White Notley at the time of the publication of Morants book (1768). I could never find any documentation of his ownership of the farm called Stanfields in White Notley, and have not checked for such a property in Kelvedon Hatch, Wattle or Margareting. It would appear that the search for the location of the correct property is limited to a managable degree, but my bet is it will not be documented in the possession of the Whitebreads.

As a consequence, I have not further searched for Stanfields estate, so I can give no more insight on this.

It does appear that Wattle and Margareting are places to search for the Whitebread roots from what Morant reports.

The references in parenthesis are from the original Morant text and point to the MSS where the information given was obtained.

Hope that is of help if you did not have the reference to Morant already in hand.

Best Regards,
Mike Wright

Re: Whitebread's in England

Posted: 2 Aug 2011 8:03PM GMT
Classification: Query
Steven,

It might also be worth mentioning that Edward Tolladay The alleged owner of Stanfields estate in 1768 was from Lindsell, Essex.

Mike Wright

Re: Whitebread's in England

Posted: 3 Aug 2011 9:28PM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi Mike, Thank you for the detailed citations from Morant's book. In fact the citations I had from that book were from another book - I have not yet had a look at the original book.
You bring some important points about the potential confusions arising from Philip Morant's book. He was writing some 200 years after the fact, so I wonder where precisely he got his information from. The Essex archives has a lot of his notes, so it might be worth going through them sometime. However, I think I have solved the problem of the identity of Anna Whitebread. I am almost certain she was the same person as Agnes Whitebred, who was christened 1 Jul 1560 at White Notley. She married a Henry Wright sometime between 1590 and 1600 and he had a son called John. John had a daughter called Margaret. This information is all from parish registers and various Whitebred wills of the period. This John Wright is presumably the one who bought White Notley manor in 1590.
Stanfields was in fact owned by the Whitebred family - it is mentioned in the wills of John Whitebred of Writtle 1626 and Thomas Whitebread of Great Baddow 1702. The Whitebread's living in Morant's day had relocated to the Ramsden Bellhouse area and were no longer such large landholders.
Steven

Re: Whitebread's in England

Posted: 3 Aug 2011 11:17PM GMT
Classification: Query
Further to my previous message, I suspect the Henry and John Wright I mentioned are different to the ones you have referred to from Kelvedon Hatch, although they could belong to the same family. Henry was buried at White Notley 24 Apr 1618. I don't have John's burial date, but it is going to be after 1626, and he must have been born in the 1590's.
Agnes Wright was a catholic recusant in the 1620's and she is referred to as Agnes Wright in 1625 and Ann Wright in 1626 - thereby demonstrating that she also went by the name Ann.
As Morant was writing more than a century later, and his writing style was not the best, it is perhaps not surprising that he has lead people down the wrong path.
Steven
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