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Of indian decent

Of indian decent

Posted: 20 Mar 2001 11:45AM GMT
Edited: 5 Jul 2001 4:56PM GMT
I was told by my mother that my great grandma was black Dutch, but my grandpa always said she was indian.

Wondering if anyone else has heard that people of indian decent tried to pass themselves off as white by calling themselves black dutch rather than indian.

Black Dutch

Kathy (View posts)
Posted: 4 Apr 2001 4:55PM GMT
Hello Terry, I was told that my great grandfather was called Black Dutch...If you have any info on the Black Dutch...I would love to hear from you...Kathy gordyfamily@yahoo.com

Black Dutch

Susan Shrader (View posts)
Posted: 5 Apr 2001 8:02PM GMT
My grandmothers family is black dutch from Pennslyvania. She used to tell us it is a mixture of Spanish and Dutch. Most of her family had brown or hazel eyes, dark hair, and olive skin. Most Dutch had fair skin and light eyes, so the darker traits came fromthe Spanish blood.

Blk/Dut/Ger.

Dawn (View posts)
Posted: 6 Apr 2001 9:24AM GMT
My uncle got mad at me once and called me a dago/wop/half-breed.We were blk/germ.My dad was dk/ish.and we had a smelting of natv.amer.I was told irsh.was celtic and why we were dk.My da had blk/hr.blu/eyes.my mom brn/hr.brn/eyes.My unc.blondew/blu.ey.I ended up brn.rd/grn i.My poor chld.r blnd.rd.hd.and 1 with jet blk hr.all have grn.eyes so I won that one.The span.would expln.the expl.of my uncle.I was too little to understand but my grandpa took him behind the wood-shed for it.What a mixture!!!!!Dawn

I like your idea

Posted: 9 Apr 2001 8:14PM GMT
Edited: 15 Dec 2002 12:02AM GMT
When I was young...i did see an old photo of women of my family tree...the baby in the five generation photo was my great uncle Dale the woman in the indain head dress was said to be a Indian Princess...i remember the feathers ran don to the grown... and if you would see the big noses my aunts and uncles have and the green under tones of their skin....well, tey where not pinkish...I always thought they where gypcies, or jewish.....Any way it was a mixture that was not talked about....I find it also funny that if asked by my grandfather about his family tree, he would not speak of it.....he was born in Oklahoma when it was a territory....near the missouri and oklahoma and arks..lines...both great uncles memtioned hourse traiding and or stealing in the family back ground....e
Posted: 9 Apr 2001 8:24PM GMT
Edited: 15 Dec 2002 12:02AM GMT
My god your message ...well i do not know how to express I reaction at knowint the truth after all these years. It explains the green under tones of my skiln, the large noses that my aunts and uncles have and the strange belief that we where from some mystry tribe....Where do i begin to let you know Of my family tree....i must get some human civ book to understand this all... i just know it , i am over whelmed at knowing this information black dutch...I knew it was Irish, English and Dutch.....Now I know where the dark hair and hazel eyes come from...I feel really connected to my family for the forst time in my life...I am no longer a cast out....I am Hudson..you can see it in my hasel eyes and wavy hair. and the green undertones that have always haunted me

Thank you...Elizabeth

Re: Of indian decent, "Black Dutch", and other things

K Powell (View posts)
Posted: 23 Aug 2001 11:30PM GMT
Classification: Query
I don't want what I'm going to say to come off as definitive. I know that many of you are trying to understand your roots. First off, Spain is as European as the rest of Europe. Moorish influence, maybe. Roma, maybe, but they didn't mix much with gaje and still don't. Spanish just isn't really part of the equation.

This is what I was told some 50ish years ago. It's a Euphemism for things that some didn't want to explain, fearing disparagement and humiliation. Things people don't want to say in public, nor much even want to whisper in explanation. If you knew, then you knew; if not, the subject would probably change and the dark skin tones would lead the inquirer to whatever concept they wanted to make of it. Oh yeah, some kind of darker skinned part of Europe.

Back in the coal-fired days, which is much of modern man's history, coal miners would be smallish people and one never got the coal from one's skin. Men started to earn money at this when only boys, to help keep the family fed; lives were often short. So, I've even heard Welsh miners called Black Welsh. But this is not the same thing, as I'm about to explain.

Black, Indian, and Irish.

I asked, what's with the dutch? Was told no Dutch or German that anyone knew of. In successive generations and in today's more accepting environment, some of those things are forgotten, where when why it came about.

Another example, a beautiful fine brownskinned boy from next door with a shock of straight black hair and eyes darker than burnt breadcrusts, with a Spanish surname, really questioned why I'd casually commented in conversation that neighbor X on the corner was Navajo: "Where did you get that idea?" I answered "Well, he told me. They both are, the whole family." Boy, with incredulity in his expression and voice: "Naaaaahhhh." Me: "Why? What do you think indians look like?" Him: "Oh you know, all red."

The young man had no idea at all of his own native american ancestry, believed he was Spanish. Period. Back when I was in grade school it would get my mexican American schoolmates punished if Spanish was spoken in school outside of Spanish class.

Emma Mae KELLER

Carol (View posts)
Posted: 1 Sep 2001 4:31AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 8 Apr 2009 9:07AM GMT
Surnames: Keller
What is a 'Hudson"? My grandma, Emma Mae keller, also had a wide nose at the base, pale blue eyes that didn't look like they went with her complexion.

I have hazel eyes, dark hair and kind of a yellow tone to my skin. I also have what is referred to as the 'Asian Fold' in my eyes.

Below you can see my pics at

http://community-2.webtv.net/cjshoe1946/doc/

My email is:

cjshoe1946@webtv.net

Re: I like your idea

Posted: 8 Apr 2009 11:23PM GMT
Classification: Query
If you're serious about tracing possible Cherokee ancestry, do some historical research first and get away from legends and family tales (that almost always are inaccurate -- not because our ancestor lied, but because they didn't know any better and passed along stories from previous generations as though they did and these stories have been mixed up in the retelling) Also Hollywood has created an image of "Indians" that is not accurate. Cherokees and the other Southeast and Northeast tribes did not look much like the Western tribes portrayed by Hollywood.

The Cherokees didn't wear long headdresses like the Sioux. Cherokee men usually shaved their heads except for a single scalplock. Sometimes they would also wear a porcupine roach. Cherokee women always wore their hair long, cutting it only in mourning for a family member. Men decorated their faces and bodies with tribal tattoo art and also painted themselves bright colors in times of war. Unlike some tribes, Cherokee women didn't paint themselves or wear tattoos, but they often wore bead necklaces and copper armbands.

Thinking that your Cherokees looked like the stereotype Hollywood Indian image (from movies) shows a lack of serious historical research. The same goes for the silly stories about "Black Dutch, Black Irish," whatever -- they are just legends, legends, most of which have been recreated or retold on the Web. Does not make them true.

If your family was from Oklahoma Territory then they were probably WHITE -- not Cherokee. Oklahoma Territory was settled by white people. The 5 Civilized Tribes, which included the Cherokees, lived in their nations in Indian Territory (not Oklahoma Territory).

Educate yourself about history and geography in order to do real genealogical research and find your ancestors.

Good luck.
Myra




Re: Of indian decent

Posted: 8 Apr 2009 11:37PM GMT
Classification: Query
If you think about this for a moment -- it isn't logical. Just telling someone you are another ethnicity won't "fool" them. Whites can't pass themselves off as Asian, Indian or Blask or vice versa.

Myra
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