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John Sillivan (abt 1819) married Isabella Hill, from Athlone, Westmeath, Ireland

John Sillivan (abt 1819) married Isabella Hill, from Athlone, Westmeath, Ireland

Posted: 5 Apr 2012 8:47AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Sullivan, Hill, Bowler
Hoping to find info on these people. I have some info about their travel to Australia in 1877, and their children.
I am hoping to find any relatives of their children or info that might take me further back.

Re: John Sillivan (abt 1819) married Isabella Hill, from Athlone, Westmeath, Ireland

Posted: 4 Jun 2012 1:53PM GMT
Classification: Query
I hope Sillivan is a typo or a name used after arrival in Australia as there are none listed.

The marriage usually took place in the bride's parish, in this case Athlone as no Sullivan's reside there. In the
cencus sustitute Griffith Valuation there are Sullivan's
1854:

Henry Hill, Parish of St. Mary Athlone tenant of Laurence
Kelly. #27 Tangier Lane off Mardyke St. - a house & yard

John Sullivan, Parish of Piercetown, TL
tenant James Higgins, #4a house and garden 1 acres 0 shllings and 10 pence

There are 3 Sullivan still on telephone for Athlone and 9 Hill's, 1 in Athlone, you need to contact them. Addresses given are sufficient for mail delivery.

There is a not for profit Heritage Foundation which will have parish records for the family, not sure if will go back to such early dates as mentioned but the children should be there. Athlone records start 1810 and

You have both names of the parents so should not have any trouble.

Annette Code

Re: John Sillivan (abt 1819) married Isabella Hill, from Athlone, Westmeath, Ireland

Posted: 24 Feb 2013 6:48PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Sullivan, Hill
Hi, yes that was a typo. It is indeed Sullivan that I meant to type.
I have read somewhere on here in someone's tree (which I cannot find now) that these people were both foundlings and that they married in Mullingar.
Now, if they were foundlings, it is unlikely there is any further history on their ancestry, and I assume their surnames were of the families they were adopted by??
There is also the very real possibility they were children of Irish travellers, given that Mullingar and Athlone are both places which were densely populated by travellers.
If they were foundlings, it is also feasible they were reared in workhouses?
I speculate a lot here as this is all I have at my disposal.

Re: John Sillivan (abt 1819) married Isabella Hill, from Athlone, Westmeath, Ireland

Posted: 26 Feb 2013 4:14PM GMT
Classification: Query
Foundlings, I guess they could have been but they could have been reared by other family members if mother deceased.
Stories passed down may not be exactly right but there will be that 'grain of truth'. In this case perhaps just the wording.I can see one of the two perhaps. Even children of single mother's were recorded in Parish records but not politely (bastards) written in beside.

Children were often take by the government/church into orphanages een if the father was alive as it wasn't felt he could do a good enough job raising kids and working.
If the families circumstances weren't good they may have had other family members raise them you see a lot of that in Ireland.
I doubt there were any Irish travellers/gypsy's then but
I could be mistaken but I've never heard any reference to them before but you know that Mullingar and Athlone were densly populated by travellers.
Children whose parents had nothing went into Workhouses with their parents and the parents had to give up everything to be admitted. I think it more likely to be those horrible orphanages where children were treated as slaves by the nuns.

I looked up just in wiki pedia that the workhouse system started in ernest in 1834 after some new laws were enacted. Although in England a different format very similar was
started after the Black Death in 1631.

Speculating is all you can do sometimes looking into
Irish genealogy.

Did you try the Irish Family History Foundation website yet? www.rootsireland.ie Isabel is quite an unusual name for the times.A marriage record would give you both their father's names. A baptism has both mother and father's names

Athlone CofI 1810 only, deaths 1786-1875

Mullingar 1741-1900 with missing years 1747, 1820, 1822 and a note that father's were not always recorded on baptism records, nor witnesses. Marriages the years 1824-1833 are missing.

The average age of marriage 20-25 or 1839 approximately so you might be able to find the marriage. Usually marriages took place in the bride's parish but not always.

With both names John Sullivan and Isabella Hill you should be able to find any children they had born in Ireland.

www.genealogy.nationalarchives.ie Tithe Applotments

1833 Athlone:

Arthur Hill, Parish of Mullingar,Townland Petiswood

1827:

James Hill, St. Mary's Athlone Parish, TL Coorsan

There are 18 Sullivan's. Look at their children's names
to make a better guess as to the grandparents names.

Directories of Ireland show a number of Hill's from 1824-1894 but a few in 1824 & 1846, Mullingar and Atholone
you can see these free on www.failteromhat.com
Farmers don't start to show in the directories until 1881.

A couple might meet in a town setting rather than a church setting and be from different Parish's.

1854: Griffith Valuation
John Sullivan, Parish of Piercetown, Townland Rathcogue,
Poor Law Union Ballymahon, tenant of James Higgins

4a house and garden 1 acres 0 roods and 10 perches

This could be your John or his father if your John had left Ireland by 1854.

I'm going to look up a bit more about Irish Travellors, Gypsy's but not Romany Gypsy's. Although all Europes
gypsy's came out of India in the middle ages.

Apparently Irish travellers are ethnically Irish. In England they were called gypsy's but now travellers.

Annette

Re: John Sillivan (abt 1819) married Isabella Hill, from Athlone, Westmeath, Ireland

Posted: 28 Feb 2013 12:56PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Sullivan, Hill
Thank you. I am looking at the tithes records. Possible success! I have read that the couple Isabella Hill and John Sullivan were married in Churchtown, Mullingar. I have found such a record of a Hill in Churchtown in 1824!!

http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//0...

Thanks so much for your links!!

Re: John Sillivan (abt 1819) married Isabella Hill, from Athlone, Westmeath, Ireland

Posted: 28 Feb 2013 1:00PM GMT
Classification: Query
In fact, I can't read any of the names on that...but here is another link -
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/r...

Re: John Sillivan (abt 1819) married Isabella Hill, from Athlone, Westmeath, Ireland

Posted: 28 Feb 2013 1:14PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: sullivan, hill
Sorry to bombard you, but a search of William S Hill (hopefully Isabella's father) comes up with a rather interesting set of results: He was Captain William S Hill and in the Griffith Evaluation (what is that and what can I understand from it?), he seems to have been renting our quite a lot of property in Churchtown. So, a landowner??
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?gl=ROOT_CATEGOR...

Re: John Sillivan (abt 1819) married Isabella Hill, from Athlone, Westmeath, Ireland

Posted: 28 Feb 2013 2:29PM GMT
Classification: Query
It is possible he is a landowner but most of the land in Ireland belonged to the aristocracy, then sub-let to people such as your Captn. in large parcels, these were then sub-let again to the actual person who farmed the lands.
Gentlemen, Esquires and the like would then make a living from the rents.

I notice an Earl of Granard owning a lot of land in the area. You can look up Estates www.landedestates.ie

Griffith Valuation 1854:
William Hill, Parish of Mullingar, Townland of Mullingar, Town of Mullingar Poor Law Union Mullingar tenant of
James Boggs

#22 Blackhall Lane (off Goal St.) a house - no land

John Sullivan, Parish of Piercetown, Townland Rathcogue,Poor Law Union Ballymahon tenant of James Higgins

4a house and garden 1 acre 0 roods 10 perches

Churchtown is both a Parish and a Townland in the Union of Mullingar, also a townland in the Parish of Kilmacnevan.

Griffith Valuation was a tax on property. Carried out by
Richard Griffith who was the director of the project.
You can see how much land by the A.R.P. at the top of a column.
A = acreage; R = Roods; P = perch
An old english form of land measurement, I do know a perch is 18' x 18'
Also outbuildings or offices are listed, if has other assets such as a forge it is listed.

The maps from the GV are quite detailed.

www.failteromhat.com has a list of landowners 1876 and there are no HILL's listed in Westmeath. If a person is a landowner in the Griffith Valuation it would show where
the landlord would normally be listed as IN FEE.

Annette
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