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LOOSE RECORDS FROM HAWKINS CO. COURTHOUSE -BURTON

LOOSE RECORDS FROM HAWKINS CO. COURTHOUSE -BURTON

DTJ (View posts)
Posted: 21 Jan 2005 1:29AM GMT
Classification: Query
I went by the loose record sight today and skimmed over the files they had in progress and found this one:

John W. Cope vs. William Burton
Hawkins Co. Circuit Court 1866

John W. Cope was connected with a William Trent and William "Bill " Burton allegedly owed him money. Burton is accused of somehow avoiding payment.

Information in the file:

1. J.A. Murrell testified that William Burton was married to his half-sister.
2. James Trent testified that William Burton was his nephew.
3. Francis W. Burton, deceased, was William Burton's brother.
4. Thomas E. Burton was mentioned and identified as "Squire " Burton.
5. Thomas E. "Squire" Burton had a son named John Burton.
6. Margaret Winstead tesified.
7. James Willis testified he went to school with William Burton and was very familiar with his handwriting.

There was much more, I just skimmed over the testimony and remember the above.

Re: LOOSE RECORDS FROM HAWKINS CO. COURTHOUSE -BURTON

David Jones (View posts)
Posted: 21 Jan 2005 2:41AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Burton, Murrell, Winstead, Martin, Trent
This is dynamite and a real nail in the coffin so to speak for the ancestry of the 1850 Hawkins County Trents who became 1860 Burtons. This may get me into trouble, but it appears that:

1. John Alfred Murrell, suspected of being the child of Nancy Williams/Lawson/Murrell and Christian Pearson was the half brother of Lucinda Murrell who married William Trent/Burton and was suspected of being the child of Nancy Williams/Lawson Murrell and James Murrell Sr.

2. James Burton Trent was the brother of Samuel Trent/Burton, who with Rebecca was the suspected father of William Trent/Burton.

3. Francis W. Burton was the son of Samuel Trent/Burton and Rebecca.

4. Thomas Burton aka Squire was probably the son of Samuel Trent/Burton or James Burton Trent.

5. Margaret Winstead was the daughter of William Martin and Lucy Burton and wife of Ephraim Winstead, which likely means that Lucy Burton was related to Samuel Trent/Burton and James Burton Trent. James Murrell Sr was the illegitimate son of William Martin and the Murrells were thus relatives of Margaret Winstead.

6. So, this likely means that all of the 1850 Burtons, and Trents who became Burtons in 1860 were probably closely related.

David

Re: LOOSE RECORDS FROM HAWKINS CO. COURTHOUSE -BURTON

Posted: 21 Jan 2005 3:42PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 14 May 2006 7:28PM GMT
Surnames: Trent
I may get in trouble too, but I see nothing in this to say that James (B.urton-O.sborne) Trent was a BLOOD BROTHER of Samuel Trent (son of Alex.Jr.-R.W. soldier)...... I don't have paper proof, only family stories told to me by several of the TN folks who unfortunely are all now dead and they did not have paper proof either.... BUT Samuel Trent never went by BURTON, and he always claimed to the be his father's first and oldest son and one has to assume that he meant via the wife Jane (Burton) Trent, tho it could well have been an earlier wife, but we have no solid paper proof or family story to say Alex. (Jr.) was md. before he md. Jane Burton. I SEE NO REASON to take this and jump to the conclusion that they (James B. O. Trent) & (Samuel Trent) are related via blood or from the same mother!!!!!!!!!!!!! ie.... Jane (Burton) Trent......... The closet one could come to assuming this is the fact that Samuel was born ca. 1790 and James B. O. was born ca. 1796 and that both would then be the son of Jane and mystery William "Tink" Osborne who or which no one has yet been able to find or ID....... Plus how do you move either James B. O. & Samuel from one lineage line to the other??? Alex. (Jr.) vs. William D. (Sr.)-- these are two separate families and two different wives and mothers....... Jane vs. Charity.......

Re: LOOSE RECORDS FROM HAWKINS CO. COURTHOUSE -BURTON

David Jones (View posts)
Posted: 21 Jan 2005 10:02PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Trent, Burton, Murrell, Martin, Greene
Scott,

We have agonized over this issue before. But, there is no other James Trent in Hawkins or Hancock counties in 1850, 1860, or 1870 who could be this James Trent (uncle of William Burton) other than James Burton Trent. We know from census data this William Burton was living with Samuel Trent and Rebecca in 1830 and that he was married as William Trent in the 1830s. We know that Samuel Trent alternately used the name Samuel Burton. We know that William Burton was going by William Trent in 1850 and William Burton in 1860. We know that he lived next door so to speak to Samuel Trent in 1840 and 1850. We know that William Burton married Lucinda Murrell who was the daughter of James Murrell Sr. We also know that James Burton Trent's half brother Alexander married Polly Martin who was the half sister of James Murrell. We know that James Burton Trent's daughter Susan married the Pleasant G. Murrell grandson of James Murrell. John Alfred Murrell married a Greene who was related to the Greenes married by the half brothers and sisters of James Burton Trent. We know that James Trent said he was the uncle of William Burton aka William Trent. We know that James Burton Trent died in 1867, so that isn't a problem.

Now, I feel that the question that we really have to answer is what does it mean to be an uncle of someone? I do have a case in a pension file where a cousin removed was referred to as an uncle. It was the pension file of William Lawson and three Stapleton brothers testified for him. One brother said he was unrelated, the other said he was a third cousin, and the third said he was the uncle. The genealogy for both families indicates that they were cousins removed. So, if Samuel Trent/Burton and James Burton Trent were first cousins instead of brothers, then William Burton would be a cousin removed if I calculated correctly. But, we have two Trents who were both known or believed to be Burtons, and one of them indicated he was the uncle of a man living with the other Trent/Burton as a son (or stepson). Both Burton/Trents were associated with Burton/Osbornes who married Trents who were closely related to each other. So, it might take a more complex story to explain why they were not related. I think that a more simple explanation, given all of the information that we have, is that they were brothers, half brothers or first cousins. Since there is no Hawkins County census before 1830, we may never know the truth.

David

Re: LOOSE RECORDS FROM HAWKINS CO. COURTHOUSE -BURTON

Posted: 22 Jan 2005 12:22AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 14 May 2006 7:28PM GMT
Surnames: Trent, Burton
David, some, all, or none of this may be true, but just how do you propose to rearrange the "mothers" and the family lineage lines to reflect this data? Samuel Trent is NOT a son (blood) or (half-) or out of wedlock a son of the mother of James B. O. Trent.

Now since it has been proposed and I have had in my document, from the TN folks that Alex.(Jr.) had a son named James Trent, maybe James Alex. Trent, maybe there is more confusion here then we need. The orlginal James "Sop" Trent, who I guess we can assume was md. to the Catherine "Cathy" Templeton of TN, would be a brother to Samuel, but I am NOT prepared to re-arrange the child of Wm. D. (Sr.) and Alex.(Jr.) at this time, not based on this Hawkins document.

Re: LOOSE RECORDS FROM HAWKINS CO. COURTHOUSE -BURTON

Posted: 22 Jan 2005 12:24AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 14 May 2006 7:28PM GMT
Surnames: Trent, Burton
Oh the original James "Sop" Trent was supposed to have had an SON also named James Trent, so it always looked liked to me that we had too many unknown James Trent's.

Re: LOOSE RECORDS FROM HAWKINS CO. COURTHOUSE -BURTON

Posted: 22 Jan 2005 12:53AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 1 Sep 2005 11:46PM GMT
Margaret Martin who married Ephraim Winstead married 2nd someone named Trent. If I remember correctly. It was mentioned in DC in a letter written about the time of her 2nd marriage.

Also, very early in my Cobb research, I came across a mention of "the Burtons and Cobbs lived near each other" I think that this was in either Tennessee Cousins (unfortunately being inexperienced in genealogy 20 years ago, I did not note the name of the book. I just copied the statement. This may have referred to NC or even VA. I'll have to look.

Re: LOOSE RECORDS FROM HAWKINS CO. COURTHOUSE -BURTON

David Jones (View posts)
Posted: 22 Jan 2005 1:05AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Burton, Trent
Scott,

I don't have a good answer. I know that it adversely affects your book, but maybe that is not such a bad thing. I think that there are two things that we have to consider.

First, you have the best database on the Trents. So, whatever is figured out from these new records has to match up with your database from Virginia. The facts are the facts.

Second--you and I have discussed this before--many of the early Hawkins County genealogies are in error. It may upset many researchers, but so be it--is the cup half empty or full? For example, we know for a fact that the Hawkins County Burton and Murrell genealogies were wrong. It tooks me four years to figure it out. I am sure that you found similar problems in VA. It may be that the Trent genealogies in Hawkins and Hancock counties are wrong too--I don't know for sure or to what extent.

So, maybe one approach is to say--ok--if Samuel Trent (Burton) and James Burton Trent were closely related what does that mean in terms of your database? How would we explain it? Maybe we can't, and that is good information. But, in Hawkins and Hancock counties, 2nd and 3rd cousin marriages were the rule--for better or for worse. Taken as a whole, it does appear that Samuel Trent (Burton) and James Burton Trent were closely related.

David

Re: LOOSE RECORDS FROM HAWKINS CO. COURTHOUSE -BURTON

David Jones (View posts)
Posted: 22 Jan 2005 1:11AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Trent, Burton
Scott,

I agree, we have a big problem, not only the James Trents, but with the two 1850 Jesse Trents. There is something wrong. Sharon and I have discussed it, but I just can't figure it out. And, I do think it is a key component of the Trent and Burton problem. Maybe we will find a "loose" document that will explain it.

David

Re: LOOSE RECORDS FROM HAWKINS CO. COURTHOUSE -BURTON

Posted: 22 Jan 2005 1:17AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 14 May 2006 7:28PM GMT
Surnames: Trent, Burton
David, very true, and I have not yet figured out just how I explain the move of Thomas Trent and Alexander Trent from over under the Wm. D. (Sr.) lineage line, where EVERYONE KNOWS that for yrs. that was where they belonged, and certainly Thelma's book does not do much in helping explain how they got there in the first place AND her book has for yrs. been taken as the gospel on Wm. D. (Sr.)!

Of course no one every did the research (like her brother did) on old Alex.(Jr.) & Jane when they had the living sources, and since his lineage line is so unknown and unsettled, (other then what is in the Kyle Collection in Knoxville, TN) we both are out here on a limb that could get sawed off........ so I'm more then willing to change chapters, but not at this time as I want the 3,000 pages out and comments coming in, BUT at some future date, maybe we can be more sure of the "blood" dna between Samuel and James B. O., tho to me "cousins" would be the best way to explain it, as I just can't get my mind around a solution that would say they had the same mother!!!!
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