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Thomas E. Ray, aka Emmet Thomas Ray

Thomas E. Ray, aka Emmet Thomas Ray

Posted: 17 Dec 2011 4:40AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Ray
Thomas Ray was living in Fort Duchesne in 1898 when his father William Ray died (according to William Ray's obituary). Was Fort Duchesne an active military base at that time? Are there any searchable records associated with the Fort? Any guidance on how to search this clue would be appreciated. A Thomas E. Ray died in Ft Leavenworth KS in March 1915, and was a prviate in the US Army, but I have no proof this is the same Thomas....

Re: Thomas E. Ray, aka Emmet Thomas Ray

Posted: 14 Jan 2012 6:14PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Ray
Hi DL,
First of all I found the Johnson-Cutshall Family Tree, http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/21704170/pers... which contains your Ray family. Of course you need to verify all of the information before you enter it in to your database.

A William Ray married Mary E. Dunkin 12 March 1850, Nodaway Co., Missouri.
Source: Missouri Marriage Records 1805-2002.

In 1870 the family lived in Yell, Boone, Iowa.
William L. Ray, b. MO, 39, farmer
Mary E., wife, b. MO, 38.
John W., b. IA, 18, farm laborer.
Elizabeth M., b. IA, 16.
Keziah A., b. IA, 14.
Mary F., b. IA, 12.
Otic C., b. IA, 2.
Thomas E. Ray, b. IA, 2/12ths.

In 1880 the family was living in Kirwin, Phillips, Kansas.
Wm. L. Ray, b. OH, 48, jeweler.
Mary E., b. MO, 48.
Thomas E., b. MO, 10.
Lettie J., b. IA, 7.

I didn't find Thomas Ray living at Fort Duchesne in 1900 but then I didn't find him anywhere on the Census.

There is an article about Fort Duchesne at www.archives.state.ut.us/research/indexes. "Fort Duchesne declined in use from 1890 to 1910. By 1893 the four infantry companies were removed to Ford Douglas. By 1909 there was only one company of cavalry left. . ." In 1910 after an Army inspection the fort was shut down.

I'd look in the Utah Archives for more information about the Fort.

I'd also order a copy of the obituary for the Thomas E. Ray who died in Kansas. William was a military man in the Mexican American and Civil War. Thomas might have followed in his footsteps and moved around with the military so he isn't found in the Censuses. Successful Searching!

Re: Thomas E. Ray, aka Emmet Thomas Ray

Posted: 16 Jan 2012 3:46AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 16 Jan 2012 6:15AM GMT
First damage control:
The Johnson-Cutshall Family tree correct link:
http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/21704170/person/1478682823?ss...=
You can access it if you have a membership to Ancestry.com; you can also try your local library (using their computer system and your library card, IF they have the library version).
--This tree identifies the father's obit and Thomas being identified as "Emmet Ray", who lived at Fort DuChene, UT.
--It identified Death of Thomas 20 Mar 1915 at Fort Leavenworth, KS, but "no evidence for the burial here being the same as Thomas Ray. Based on comments here in this posting and this family tree, I would "guess" you were the owner.
---Additional information: The 1870 Census of Yell, Boone County, Iowa, identified Thomas E. Ray as being 2/12ths in age. The census was enumerated on 2 August, so if correct, he was born about May/June 1870. Note: This is NOT backed by ANY documentation.

Now, let me answer your actual question:
His being at Fort Duchesne does not prove he was IN the military, but probable. There would be no information in the Utah archives about US Army members assigned, unless one individual had somehow been involved in something under the state jurisdiction or newsworthy.

Just for some TOTAL SPECULATION on this issue of his burial at Fort Leavenworth:
First, if he was alive and identified as being a military member at Fort Leavenworth at time of death. IF Thomas Ray WAS in the military at Fort DuChene in 1898, and he was the correct person that died at Fort Leavenworth, KS in 1915 as a private, there might have been military court martial for a major crime. A military member in 1898 should have progressed well past the rank of private in 17 years. To not so progress, the person might have been found guilty of a major crime, being reduced in rank to private, losing all pay and privileges and be incarcerated at the federal prison at Fort Leavenworth. This person that died in 1915, if the correct Thomas Ray would have been about 45. To me it sounds like two different persons, but the scenario can't be disproven or proven without facts.
---BUT, the actual marker
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=ra...;
appears to be a marker reserved for a service member/honorably served. Or, in the possibility in this case, the marker was in regard to his service at ANY point in time previous. The marker shows very little "3403-A Thos. E. Ray, U.S.A. (US Army). The traditional marker for military service is more detailed than what is shown for what could be Spanish American War or WWI service. The same shield was used for Spanish American War veterans, but the unit information was more informative.
--The 3403-A is nothing more than the plot number. The actual transcription from:
http://www.interment.net/data/us/ks/leavenworth/fortleavnat/...
"Ray, Thomas E, d. 03/20/1915, PVT 2ND CO, US DISC BARRACKS GUARD, Plot: H 3403-A, *" (this stood for the 2nd company, US Disciplinary Barracks Guard, which to me "indicates" possible service in this capacity at the Fort Leavenworth prison. This also suggests to me [MY SPECULATION] this might have indicated an active duty death while performing duties, possibly an honor stone over a cenotaph (empty grave).
Records with an asterisk at the end indicates those that have not been verified as accurate by the U.S. Department of Veterans' Affairs. Please visit "The National Cemetery Administration Records Verification Project "
http://www.interment.net/column/records/nca/index.htm
for details on what this means. To report an error, please visit the Veterans Affairs website, click on "Contact the VA" and follow the instructions.
http://www.va.gov/


--I would suggest contact of the cemetery or the Department of Veteran Affairs for information about this person. The VA takes the application for these memorials from family members.

Now, as to any military records. Records would not be at Fort Duchesne, as any service records follow the member, and the service. For pre-WWI records:
http://www.archives.gov/veterans/military-service-records/pr...
...BUT, depending on when he served, the 1973 fire may have destroyed the primary records:
http://www.archives.gov/st-louis/military-personnel/fire-197...

Ron Bestrom
Tacoma, WA

Re: Thomas E. Ray, aka Emmet Thomas Ray

Posted: 16 Jan 2012 6:11AM GMT
Classification: Query
Additional information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Disciplinary_Barr...
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/justicelawlegislation/a/leave...
While this further identifies the unit, it does nothing to identify the person.

Re: Thomas E. Ray, aka Emmet Thomas Ray

Posted: 28 Jun 2014 10:48PM GMT
Classification: Query
FYI - The Johnson-Cutshall Family tree, referred to in this thread was composed by William Johnson (see Find A Grave Memorial # 25232951) with information shared from many who he encountered through FindAGrave. The addition of the William Ray line was linked to this family only through the union of his great-aunt Lucille Sheets to Robert Thomas Stephenson. Mr Stephenson being the brother of Helen Stephenson who married Elmer Otto Ray. So with this information, I'm sure DLKading is able to determine that much of the information within that 'Family Tree' is information which is very familiar to her. But she is most definitely not the 'owner' of the tree in question.

Re: Thomas E. Ray, aka Emmet Thomas Ray

Posted: 3 Jul 2014 3:00PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Ray
The Thomas Ray who was in Utah was not infact the Thomas Emmet Ray who went to Fort Leavenworth. I have found his descendants in the Andes Mountains of Chile where Thomas travelled to in 1914 to work in the coppter mines there. I have a copy of his passport/visa with his picture as proof he immigrated there. I have been in correspondece with his great grandchildren and they have confirmed the identity of Thomas Emmet Ray as the same as William Ray's youngest son. Givent the family's history of mining, this made perfect. I have the site of the mine where he worked and his descendent information. His g grandson located me through the identification of his GG Grandfather William Ray's grave on find a grive in Kirwin KS. I was trying to find his information to try and determine who William Ray's parents were, but none of the info on Thomas contained any useful information to that end. In fact the first question from the Ggrandson in Chile was, I just want to know who William's parents were. And my reply was, me too, Sebastian, me too.
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