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Phoebe Gooche, Cherokee

Phoebe Gooche, Cherokee

Posted: 12 Apr 2001 12:00PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 27 May 2002 4:53AM GMT
Surnames: Goochee, Gooche, Gousche, Crews, Robinson, Camp
I am looking for information about Phoebe Gooche, wife of Hardy Hardyman Crews, mid 1700's. Phoebe was Cherokee of the Eastern Cherokee tribe according to information and family report. I am interested in finding out her clan, where she was born, in the Illinois, Virginia, Tennessee, Georgia or the Carolina's. Any information would be greatly appreciated. I have information regarding her decendants to share.

awhite2153@thegrid.net

Re: Phoebe Gooche (Doochee)

Kevin Patton (View posts)
Posted: 28 Aug 2001 6:13AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 27 May 2002 5:00AM GMT
Surnames: Gooche, Doochee, Hubbard, Crews, Meredith, Coffin
Hi Joanne .. just ignore this .. I'm trying to spread the word on this information because so many people are getting it wrong.

"The following is a transcript of information on the Hubbards, Crews and Doochees who lived in the adjacent counties of Person Co, NC and Mecklenberg Co., Va obtained from the Friends Historical Collection at Hege Library, Guilford College, Greensboro, NC. There is no indication when this was written or by whom, but parts must have been written by children of the people described, as the details are too exact. Other parts must have been written after the Trail of Tears because of the reference to "applying for Cherokee nation membership rights". Other parts are certainly written as late as 1920 because of the reference to 150 yrs of connections between the Hubbards and Merideths. No attempt has been made to edit or change the original text.
Kevin Cosand Patton, January 1999. (Note:I shared this research with another person who posted it at the Genforum message board at Genealogy.com)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GENEALOGY OF THE HUBBARD FAMILY WITH A BRIEF HISTORY OF
ITS CONNECTION WITH THE CHEROKEE INDIANS

According to the best information to be had in regard to the ancestors of the Hubbard family as obtained from records, history, traditions and aged persons, about the year 1740 there dwelt near the banks of the Keehukee Creek in the British province of North Carolina a Cherokee Indian by the white name of Goochee, but in the Cherokee language as Doochee.

[Kehukee Swamp rises in eastern Halifax Co. and flows SW into Roanoke River. Appears as Kehukee Creek on the Collet Map, 1770. Source: Powell, Wm S. "The North Carolina Gazeteer." 1968, pp.261-76]

In the year 1729 North and South Carolina were made separate and distinct provinces. The original Cherokee Indians, however, were the almost sole occupants of all the central and a greater part of the Eastern portions of the North Carolina Province. Soon the Whites, who had gained a foothold on the Eastern coast of North Carolina began to penetrate these hitherto sacred hunting grounds of the Indians. Among these adventurous pioneers was a white man, an Irishman, named Hardy Crews, hardy he was by name and hardy by nature. In what is now known as Person County he halted and permanently located. Finding very few white settlers, and especially of the female sex, he chose for a life companion a beautiful Cherokee maiden, a dark-haired daughter of the Doochees. A generous welcome seems to have been extended to this happy couple by the Indians. In due course of time two daughters were born to them named Ann and Mary Crews. These English names as well as an English education were bestowed upon these promising children. Ann Crews, having grown to womanhood, her mind enlightened and cultured with such an education as that frontier life and early period would allow, was tall, graceful and slender; features regular and beautiful; in manners gentle and modest, quiet and unassuming, yet in disposition and character firm and very determined in purpose. While attending school in Mecklenburg County, she formed an acquaintance of a young white man, Joseph Hubbard, a sedate Quaker. That acquaintance ripened into an affection that resulted in their marriage about the year 1770. Thus it is clearly seen by the marriage of the full blood Cherokee Doochee mother to the white man, Hardy Crews, and the subsequent marriage of the half blood daughter Ann Crews to Joseph Hubbard, another White man, that by the faithful observance of the sacred marriage obligations which bound these devoted women solemnly to their devoted husbands, lost them and their descendents to their identity as members of the Cherokee Nation of people, but not their rights as such when properly applied for.

Not much is known of Joseph Hubbard's ancestors. The best information is, they were English Quakers who came over to this country in 1681 with William Penn when the settlement was made in Philadelphia and from there they emigrated to and settled in the County of Mecklenberg, Virginia, and in the adjoining counties of North Carolina. Dr. Benjamin Franklin in his autobiography gives a concise account of the colony of Pennsylvanis [sic:Pennsylvanians] who emigrated to Virginia and North Carolina in 1729, and among other things he had to say in regard thereto, speaks particularly of the Merideths, one of whom married Mary Crews. He mentions Hugh Merideth, who was his partner for some time in the printing business in the City of Philadelphia. It seems that the Hubbards and Merideths have been in close connection for over one hundred and fifty years and that their Indian blood runs back to the same Cherokee stock of starting point the Doochees.

Joseph Hubbard was born in Mecklenberg County, Virginia, and after his marriage to Ann Crews still lived there, where several of his children were born. He afterwards moved over into Person County, North Carolina, where he lived until after the death of his first wife in 1812, he then moved to Guilford County, North Carolina. Joseph Hubbard and Ann Crews had eight children, viz. Hardy; Jeremiah; Joseph; Woodson; Jacob; Ann; Susana and Rhoda. After his removal to Guilford County, he married a white woman named, Axsah [Achsah] Coffin by whom he had two sons, viz., John R. and Samuel N. Hubbard. He lived to be upwards of ninety years old, died and was buried in the graveyard at New Garden Meeting House, North Carolina.

The five Hubbard boys were noted for their large size, fine personal appearance, none of them being less than six feet tall. They were generally known as the "Big Cherokee Boys". They were trained by their Quaker parents to practise the principles of peace and friendship, but woe to the boy or man who with sneers and insults taunted them with their 'Cherokee blood'. Of all the brothers, Jeremiah was the best known and portrayed in his features and general appearance his Indian descent. He was tall, erect and straight as an arrow, being six feet two or three inches in height.

He had a dark swarthy complexion, keen black eyes, high cheek bones, hair straight and black as coal, a large mouth with firm lips and his front teeth were long and slightly curved inward. He was a distinguished and influential minister in the Society of Friends of Quakers. He was a fluent and eloquent speaker and a natural born orator. His voice was strong and musical and he seemed to sway his hearers at will. He was generous, unselfish and hospitable and his 'Red Brothers', the Cherokees, as they travelled through his section, which they often did, always made a stopping place at his plain and unpretentious home hailing him as a friend and brother and claiming him as one of their own people.

*ENDS*

Re: Phoebe Goochee

janet seacat (View posts)
Posted: 10 Sep 2003 7:12PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 14 Sep 2003 5:46AM GMT
Surnames: Moore, Hubbard, Crews, Goochee
I am a 7th generation granddaughter of Thomas Moore whom married Anne Hubbard.Daughter to Joseph and Anne Crews Hubbard of North carolina.Anne Crews Hubbard was the daughter of Hardy Crews and Phoebe Goochee.If you have any more information reguarding Phoebe Goochee please contact me.My family is trying to locate others that may still be there in north carolina.And sir our information says they were Quackers.
thank you for your time.
sincerly,
janet seacat

Re: Phoebe Gooche, Cherokee

janet seacat (View posts)
Posted: 10 Sep 2003 7:31PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 14 Sep 2003 5:49AM GMT
Surnames: Goochee
hello i am a 7th generation granddaughter to Hardy and Phoebe Goochee. i am interested to the information you have on them. my family are trying to locate other members that stoll may live there or in others areas in the country.
i do know that Phoebe's father was a chief of the tribe she is from and have information of the blood line from my side to her.
Please contact me at your conveinence thank you.
Sincerly,
Janet Seacat

Re: Phoebe Gooche (Doochee)

Kevin Cosand Patton (View posts)
Posted: 10 Sep 2003 8:42PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 14 Sep 2003 5:47AM GMT
Surnames: Gooche, Hubbard, Doochee, Crews
Janet,

I don't have any more information on Phoebe other than what's already infront of you. The posted information comes from the Friends Historical Record at Hege Library which is at Guilford College in Greensboro, NC. You can get a photocopy of the original information on Joseph Hubbard and/or Phoebe Doochee from them. You have to pay a small fee though. I've been using 'Doochee' rather than 'Goochee', as the references indicate that pronunciation is more authentic.

I've researched the language aspect of Goochee and Doochee with Cherokee language experts. There's no certainty about meaning. It could be from the extinct third Cherokee dialect, don't know. Also, beware of the misinformation around that some of the Crews descendants have created. There was an attempt by some Crews family members to get recognized by the Eastern Cherokee nation. They even went to court, but lost their fight. They were trying to become members of the tribe in order to get land benefits. Actually they would never have been able to do so, because they have no documented evidence that Phoebe Goochee and Hardy Crews ever had any male children. (or at least they've never taken up my challenge to produce it) Also, membership in the Cherokee nation can only be had if you can prove a link to those who were listed on the rolls taken in and around the Trail of Tears era. Our link preceded those rolls by 100 years.

The location of Kehukee Creek which runs off the Roanoke, is now in Halifax Co, NC near the town of Scotland Neck. There's a famous Kehukee Baptist Church there which you can pull up off the internet.

As for Hubbards .. I've not done a lot of research.

Kevin

Re: Joseph Hubbards

Kevin Cosand Patton (View posts)
Posted: 10 Sep 2003 8:54PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 14 Sep 2003 5:48AM GMT
Surnames: Hubbard, Hubbards
Janet,

I forgot to ask .. was your statement about the Joseph Hubbards being "Quackers" [sic] a typo or a question?

Because I'm assuming you know that "Quakers" is another name for members of the Society of Friends aka 'Friends'. The answer to the question about whether Joseph Hubbard was Quaker is 'yes'. That's one reason why you'll find information on him in the Friends Historical Record at Guilford College which is a Quaker college and the oldest 'co-educational' college in the country.

It might be worth going through cemetary records in the Guilford County/Greensboro vicinity to see if any family members are listed.

Good Luck

Kevin

Re: Phoebe Goochee

Posted: 23 Oct 2010 3:31AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Crews/Clayton/Finley/Blansett/Burns
I am a sixth generation granddaughter of Phoebe through their daughter Rachel Crews who married John William Clayton, father of WIlliam Clayton who married (2) Lucinda Virginia O'Jane McGee whose daughter Melissa Ann Clayton married John Wesley Finley who were my great grandparents through their daughter Theodocia Ernest Finley who married Steve Blansett and their daughter Maryann Hope Blansett was my mother.

Re: Phoebe Goochee

Posted: 23 Oct 2010 4:45AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Doochee, Crews, Clayton.
Hi Frank. Do you have a source for Rachel Crews whom you believe to be a daughter of Phoebe Doochee? Do you have documents to support the dates or estimated dates for her birth, marriage, or death? Or do you have dates for her husband ... or dates for William Clayton? Since my postings I have discovered at least one individual in the pre-Removal Cherokee nation who had the name Duchi, although his dates are from a later generation than that of Phoebe's father. Also discovered is that it's unlikely that Phoebe had the maiden surname of Doochee, as experts indicate that Cherokees did not use surnames. (Note the earliest rolls which are full of individuals without surnames). Phoebe would likely have had only one name, which she would likely have chosen herself when she came of age in a manner typical of Cherokee in that period. Phoebe is the English word for a species of flycatcher and may have been translated from the Cherokee name for the same bird. Her father would have simply been called Duchi.

Re: Phoebe Gooche (Doochee)

Posted: 9 Jul 2011 7:18PM GMT
Classification: Query
Dear Kevin,

A descendent of the Merediths here.

Thanks for mentioning the Hege Library, never would of thought about it.

One exception to your post of Sep. 10, 2003.

Cherokee Nation v. Georgia and the trail of tears was merely a pretext to steal the lands of four white men--it is in the origanol state statute. The Cherokee won this case, handilly and the President deployed the army to reverse it. If those four white men can be found, The Case Must be enforced.

Know nothing of Hubbards, but Meredith v. Cherokee ruled the Merediths must be removed from the Dawes Rolls, because Merediths are white people, and Phoebe was not real.

As I understand it, Phoebe Goochee and Nancy Ward are either sisters, or the same person (if they are the same person, most big chiefs should not be citizens of the nation, and a court case could similarly remove them from the rolls.)

The court records are in error: Hugh Meredith did not marry Mary Crews--James Hugh Meredith did (just goes to show how little the Supreme Court cared about these series of cases.)

Has anyone considered, Mr. Five Killer Goochee was a Gough? Another illustrious family like the Merediths married a Cherokee Indian Girl?

John Kean

P.S. What boils my blood about this is, Everyone keeps robbing Peter to pay Paul, and if the Cherokee are involved yyou can rest assured the Merediths are getting screwed--Oh well.

P.P.S. The Cherokee Nation has no modicum of Sovreignity. Its citizenship rules are in perfect Harmony with US Law, and they make no efforts to rock the boat or do the right thing. Until the Cherokee become a State, they remain an Insullar Affair of the US, 3/5ths persons, and Congress can do whatever it wants with its plenipotentiary power, as parens patria. Again, not sure who to be more mad at--but they deserve each other.

Re: Phoebe Gooche (Doochee)

Posted: 17 Feb 2013 12:51AM GMT
Classification: Query
Phoebe Goochee was Nancy Wards Sister and she is real she was my Grandmother.
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