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How to find complete birth certificate in the 1880's in England?

How to find complete birth certificate in the 1880's in England?

Posted: 6 May 2012 9:58PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 7 May 2012 2:33PM GMT
Surnames: Horsfield
I am a bit stuck on one of my ancestors. I have been able to determine that my grate grate grandmother was married to a yet unknown Horsfield. Her obituary mentions that she has a different maiden name than my ancestor. I have received the GRO copy of his birth. On there it only mentions my GGGM no father is listed. I am hoping that the full record will give more information.

Does anyone have any idea how I can find the full birth certificate from someone born in the 1880's in England?

Re: How to find complete birth certificate in the 1880's in England?

Posted: 8 May 2012 4:51PM GMT
Classification: Biography
Edited: 8 May 2012 6:24PM GMT
I've had a quick look at your tree on Ancestry, and I think I see the problem, assuming the birth certificate you're referring to is for Henry Horsfield, born 1882 in Ashton under Lyne?

If this assumption is correct, the birth certificate you've attached to his birth event is the actual full certificate - there is no other information available formerly recorded. It indicates that Henry Horsfield was born illegitimately to Sarah Ann Horsfield, and after a little more research it can be determined that Sarah Ann was unmarried at the time. I'm sorry if this is a shock, but it was very common in the days before birth control.

The newspaper obituary for Henry is a bit misleading in that it implies his mother Sarah Ann was "Mrs" Horsfield and that her maiden name was Watkins. This is compounded by Sarah Ann's obituary saying that she was the daughter of Stephen and Maria Watkins. In actual fact, it would appear that Sarah Ann was herself the illegitimate daughter of Maria Hors(e)field, who later (much later in fact, in 1882) married Stephen Watkin.

The 7 year old Sarah Ann Horsefield, her mother Maria Horsefield, and her grandparents James & Mary Horsefield were living together in Ashton under Lyne in the 1871 census. If you search for Maria Horsefield in this census, and click on the one who was born 1843 in Ashton under Lyme, you'll see the family.

I hope that helps - it's a bit confusing and a little different from the way you've been led to understand events by the obituaries, but I believe it to be correct. :-)

Christine

Re: How to find complete birth certificate in the 1880's in England?

Posted: 10 May 2012 10:02PM GMT
Classification: Query
wow thank you for going above and beyond the call of duty in answering my question. It sucks that thats all there is.

Its not a shock to hear that Henry was illegitimate. Its a well known family story that he didn't know who his father was. If you look at his 1891 census you will see he is living with his grand mother and who i know know to be his step grand father. They list him as a son, I'm assuming it was a way to save face. At the same time you see Sarah Ann living with her then boyfriend/fiancé James Rowley and their illegitimate son James (apparently Sarah was very friendly). James and Sarah marry a couple years later and James adopts his son and renames him James Horsfield Rowley Jr.

As far as Sarah Ann being illegitimate I'm not so sure. I have an 1871 census in Ashton Under Lyne showing a Sarah Ann being the daughter of a Maria and John Horsfield. Assuming its the same Maria and Sarah Ann it doesn't necessarily conflict with the marriage you found. I will have to research further to either confirm or deny the census. If you wish I can keep you posted.

Once again thank you for all the help. :-)

Re: How to find complete birth certificate in the 1880's in England?

Posted: 11 May 2012 9:47AM GMT
Classification: Query
You're very welcome - it was an interesting one to try and unravel. :-)

I'm still erring on the side of your Sarah Ann being the one in the 1871 census entry I mentioned, simply because this one was born in Ashton in approx. 1864, and I think the one you refer to was born in Stalybridge in approx. 1858? Anyway, as you say, a bit more research should sort it out. Good luck!

Christine

Re: How to find complete birth certificate in the 1880's in England?

Posted: 13 Sep 2012 8:54PM GMT
Classification: Marriage
Edited: 13 Sep 2012 11:21PM GMT
Births registered are now showing mothers maiden names on:

http://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/

In case you have not not got a copy of Sarah Ann's marriage:
Attachments:

Re: How to find complete birth certificate in the 1880's in England?

Posted: 13 Sep 2012 10:31PM GMT
Classification: Query
I actually like that copy of the marriage cert better than the one I got from the GRO.
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