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Turner Problem in Wake County

Turner Problem in Wake County

Posted: 18 Sep 2002 8:26AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 11 May 2006 6:26AM GMT
I seem to have a Revolutionary War Soldier (Capt. Robert Raiford's Company, 8th Regt Continental Line) named Maltiah (often mispelled Mattiah or Mathiah or even Matthias) Turner in my family. He was born probably in the early 1760's or late 1750's and died in 1831 in Montgomery County, NC. He was gravely injured in the war and was granted an invalid pension. He seems to have been rather rootless. Just after the War, he was found in Pitt County. In the 1790 and 1800 census records, he appears in Chatham County. In 1811, he is shown to have been living in Randolph County and of course, he died in Montgomery County. Apparently, he lived on his pension and took up little or no land. He sold his reissued bounty land grant, however, to Nathaniel Taylor in Wake County, also in 1811. There were very few Turners in Randolph County, NC in that era. However, a coroner's inquest there shows that a TItus Jennings Turner (also a Revolutionary War veteran) died in Randolph Co. in 1829. Is there a connection between Maltiah Turner and Titus Jennings Turner, who lived in SE Wake County most of his life? Was Titus visiting relatives in Randolph when he died? He had been petitioning the Legislature fruitlessly for a pension (in the mid 1820's) and had suggested that he might be put on the county if he were not granted one. Maybe he went to Randolph County to find relatives who might care for him. (Maltiah's probable daughter Elizabeth was married to Joshua Routh there.) Titus was undoubtedly linked to Augustus B. Turner, Esq. and Jasper M. Turner of Wake County. These last two later moved to Anson Co., NC. Does anyone have any idea where they came from? These men appear to have been born in the 1760's.

Re: Turner Problem in Wake County

Sonja Ann (View posts)
Posted: 26 Mar 2004 2:53PM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi, I read your message query on rootsweb, and I am wondering if your ancestor might also be mine. My second great-grandfather was Mattiah Turner, born 1811 in North or South Carolina, who married an Elizabeth no last name (information from the 1850 Tennessee census). I do not know his ancestors, but he had a brother 14 years younger named John Turner living in Lincoln County, Tennessee at the time of the 1850 census. John married a Spicey no last name. Both John and Spicey are buried in Turner Cemetery near Reader, Arkansas. My great-grandmother Mary Mattie Elizabeth Turner was named for her father. She married a Jimi Stone, and they moved to Arkansas, where Jimi died of pneumonia 12 days after reaching the state. My grandmother was born six months after her father died. My great-grandmother remarried, and from what oral family history seems to indicate, neither the Stones or the Turners much approved of the marriage, and therefore my grandmother knew next to nothing of either her maternal or paternal lineage. I cannot trace Mattiah or John Turner past 1850. Just wonder if your Mattiah is my Mattiah's father.

Re: Turner Problem in Wake County

Posted: 27 Mar 2004 3:11AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 11 May 2006 6:26AM GMT
I do recognize the Maltiah Turner (b. c. 1811) you are talking about. I do happen to think that he is the son of the older Maltiah. It is such a rare name, what are the chances he isn't? I can't say for certain, however, because no will or estate or deed exists which proves the Senior Maltiah's heirs. He owned almost nothing and moved to a county (in which he finally may have owned a little land) before he died, whose records have since been burned (that is Stanly County, which was part of Montgomery County before 1849.)

The younger Maltiah shows up first in Cabarrus County, NC, a neighboring county to Montgomery--now Stanly County. He married 15 Nov 1831 to Betsey Watson in Cabarrus. This was just a few months after the older Maltiah died. He next shows up in Johnson County, TN, where he married (7 May 1843) as "Maltiah Turner" to Hannah Jane Dunbar. His final marriage (as "Maltire Turner") was to Elizabeth Dunbar in Washington Co., TN. In 1850 he was living with her in Green County, TN, p. 319 and they had several children: John, David, James, Maltiah, and Robert. Elizabeth Turner was living with James Dunbar in Greene County by 1860. The children are missing.

I wrote an article on the senior Maltiah and published it in the Winter, 2002 edition of the Randolph County (NC) Genealogical JOURNAL--a local publication I've edited for the past eight years. I tried to determine who his children were using geographical proximity to the places he lived because the name "Turner," believe it or not, was very rare in both Randolph and Chatham Counties at that time. He was practically the only older Turner around. But I never knew about John Turner.

I am VERY interested to know more about John. My first question is, how did you know that John was the brother of Maltiah? Not that I doubt you, but given the common nature of the name Turner, you'd think such a thing would be hard to prove. Was the tradition preserved in your family, or was there a record that suggested this to you in Tennessee?

Re: Turner Problem in Wake County

Sonja Ann (View posts)
Posted: 27 Mar 2004 2:01PM GMT
Classification: Query
Thank you for sharing your information. I knew that my second great-grandmother's name was Elizabeth but we never knew her maiden name.
John Turner and his wife Spicey moved to Reader, Arkansas, from what I have heard my grandmother Jimmie Lou Merkley Stone and my father tell about family history, about the same time my great-grandfather J. M. "Jimi" Stone moved his family into Arkansas. I think they must have been moving in a family group.
There are a lot of Stones and Turners around Reader and Bluff City, Arkansas, and I think most, if not all of them, are related in some manner or another.
Family oral tradition has always said that John was the brother of Mattiah. His wife having such an unusual name, Spicey (pronounced Spahzy somewhat like that movie star's name Spacey, who played Loretta Lynn in Coal Miner's daughter) make John pretty easy to trace in the records.
Oral family tradition names these children of Mattiah and Elizabeth.
1. Jack Turner (this is probably James of the 1850 cenus)
2. John "Bud" Turner
3. David Turner
(John and David were twins)
4. Robert "Bob" Turner
5. Mary Mattie Elizabeth Turner also known as "Liz" "Lizzie" and "Sis", born 31 October 1852 in Greene County, Tennessee, died 1930 in Bluff City, Arkansas, buried Bluff City Cemetery, married #1 J. M. "Jimi" Stone, born 13 Feb. 1842 in either South Carolina or Alabama, died 17 January 1887 in Bluff City, Arkansas 12 days after he brought his family to Arkansas, buried Bluff City Cemetery, married #2 Charles H. Tyler of New York, New York in Bluff City, Arkansas Charles, a veteran of the War Between The States (Union), is also buried in Bluff City Cemetery as is Nannie Stone Tyler, their only child (my grandmother's half sister), who died as an infant. My grandmother Jimmie Stone was an infant in arms when my great-grandmother and step-great-grandfather wed. She was held in the arms of her elder sister Eliza Stone during the ceremony. (She was born 6 months after J.M. Stone's death). Children of J.M. Stone and M. E. Turner are a. David Stone b. John Stone c. Eliza Stone, and d. Jimmie Lou Merkley Stone
6. Ellen Turner (Tolbert)
7. Sally Turner (Hawkins)
The census gives the name of one son, Mattiah, age 4 at the time of the census. The name of this child of Mattiah and Elizabeth has never been mentioned in family lore, so I must surmise that he died young. My great-grandmother was named for her father Mattiah (thus Mattie, a family name which has been perpetuated on the female side of the family). I suppose Mattiah must have gone by the name Matt, thus Mattie.
When I was a teen-ager, I was introduced to one of my daddy's cousins, a gentleman named Nat Turner who worked as a fireman on the Reader Railroad, the only working steam railroad in America at that time (about 1960-1961). We waited in Reader for the train to come in and met him as he left the engine. I don't know if he is a grandson of John and Spicey or not. I wish I had written down all that I was told about the Turners, but I didn't. My daddy's sole surviving sibling is much younger than the other children of the family and remembers only vaguely what was told about kinships.
I have no documentation to show that John was Mattiah's brother, but it is oral family tradition.
Hope this helps you out in your research. I thank you very much for the information you have given me because up until now other family members and myself doing research on the Stones and Turners had come up against a brick wall when it came to finding out anything beyond Mattiah and Elizabeth. I have a Civil War story told in the family about Elizabeth. She was practically held hostage in the family home by a group of Union soldiers and forced to cook and do their laundry for them. Family lore says she always hated soldiers of both sides after that. She said the Southern soldiers stole all her chickens and the Union soldiers used her beds and slept in them without taking off their spurs and tore up her best quilts, so she didn't think kindly of any of them. Supposedly, this situation went on for some weeks until she was rescued by another Union soldier who made the military squatters leave her home. Some of us have wondered if this soldier was Charles H. Tyler, whom her daughter M. E. Tyler, my great-grandmother, later married after her first husband died, but we will probably never know. The above story makes me wonder, too, where was Mattiah when all this was going on? Did he die before the war broke out, or did he volunteer as a soldier for the Confederates or Union and find himself either away from home or killed in action?
There is probably a lot more information on the Turners at the state library in Little Rock, if you have a chance to visit there. The list of children of Mattiah and Elizabeth is also in the Turner family Bible, which is in the possession of one of my family members. Unfortunately, it is not in good condition. Sometime back in the late 30s or early 40s, it was not taken good care of, and apparently a small child got hold of it and shredded many of the pages. I am sorry that I do not have the birthdates of the other children at hand, but hope that this helps fill in some of the blanks on your family tree.

Re: Turner Problem in Wake County

Posted: 28 Mar 2004 2:10AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 11 May 2006 6:26AM GMT
Would you like to have a copy of my article on the Turner family? This is about Maltiah Turner, Sr. and puts together all the shreds of evidence I have on him--transcribes some of the documents--attempts to list the children given the places he passed through, one of whom, I believe, was the Elizabeth Turner who married my ancestor Joshua Routh (pronounced "Ruth") in Randolph County, NC. It was printed in the Winter 2002 edition of the Randolph County Genealogical JOURNAL. I am so happy to find another Turner descendant. There is almost no one out there to talk to about this line as it is so difficult to trace. Bravo for your family keeping a good oral history of who you were and where you came from. If you ever get a transcribed copy of the Bible record of Maltiah, Jr., please send it to me. I know it is too fragile to make an actual photocopy, but a transcription would be nice.

I had the idea that Maltiah Jr. may have had some older children by his first wife Elizabeth Watson, who would have been practically grown by 1850. Do you recognize William F. M. Turner (b c. 1833) who married Polly Ann Harmon, 26 Jul 1865 in Greene Co., TN? He was living with Jacob Harmon and family in 1850 (Greene Co., p. 169). Martha Turner (b. c. 1838) was living with Reuben Rader and wife Syntha in 1850 (p. 336, Greene Co., TN). She married John Dunbar, 9 May 1860, Greene Co. Could she be another older daughter?

You can write to me directly at my e-mail address--
<LCATES@northstate.net>

Re: Turner Problem in Wake County

Bettie (View posts)
Posted: 1 Apr 2005 2:49AM GMT
Classification: Query
I have spent years trying to find the father of Eustacia (Stacy) Turner that married Abner Cate/Cates with no luck, the Turners is a hard family to trace or for me anyway, glad someone else has had some luck on their line of Turners.

Re: Turner Problem in Wake County

Posted: 7 Jun 2013 7:11PM GMT
Classification: Query
Let me add another twist to the Turner family. I believe my gg-grandmother, Mary Hallett, married the grandson of your Maltire Turner (b. c 1846) in Knox County, Tennessee January 1866 -her second marriage. Her first was to William Northern who died in Chattanooga, TN in 1865, leaving her with three small children. So far my research has taken them to Grayson County, KY. where by the 1880 census Mary is shown as head of household. If my research is correct, Maltire and Mary had two daughters both born in Grayson County. I do not know if Maltire was married before he married Mary or not as I have not found any other records for him. I have not yet found proof of Maltire's death. The courthouse has burned a couple of times and few written records remain.
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