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Coutard family - 17th arrondissement - 1870's

Coutard family - 17th arrondissement - 1870's

Posted: 13 Apr 2008 3:08AM GMT
Classification: Query
I'm trying to find the birth records of 3 girls named Blanche, Louise and Alice Coutard who were born in Paris in the 1870's to Louis Jules Coutard and his English wife, Maria Elizabeth (nee Mawle). The family might have lived at 39 Rue Dulong. I would be grateful for any help and if anyone could direct me to a site where I can post a message in French it might help.
Regards, Dave

Re: Coutard family - 17th arrondissement - 1870's

Posted: 28 Dec 2009 12:53AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: COUTARD
Hello,
In case you're still interested, the Paris Archives (1860-1902) are now available online, here : http://canadp-archivesenligne.paris.fr/archives_etat_civil/1...

I've searched the COUTARD births in the 17th arrondissement and found 3 girls named Alice Désirée, Louise and Marie for this couple. There's also a Blanche Elisa born in April 11, 1864 but she has other parents.

Here are the transcripts:

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Online Ref : V4E 4759
Online page : 4
Certificate number : 527
Certificate drafting date : March 4, 1875 at 11h00 am
Event : naissance = birth (female)
Event date : March 2, 1775 at 05h00 pm
Name : Alice Désirée COUTARD
Father : Louis COUTARD, aged 27, employé = employee
Mother : Maria Elisabeth MAWLE, aged 33, without occupation
Parents address : 11 rue d'Asnières, Paris (17e)
Informants / witnesses :
1) Louis COUTARD, father
2) Etienne ROUSTIDE, aged 40, frotteur = scrubber, living 101 avenue de Clichy
3) André VICALARD, aged 53, charbonnier = coalman, living 13 rue Boursault

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Online Ref : V4E 4776
Online page : 6
Certificate number : 2983
Certificate drafting date : December 7, 1876 at 11h00 am
Event : naissance = birth (female)
Event date : December 6, 1876 at 11h00 am
Name : Louise COUTARD
Father : Louis COUTARD, aged 28, employé = employee
Mother : Maria Elizabeth MAWLE, aged 35, without occupation
Parents address : 11 rue d'Asnières, Paris (17e)
Informants / witnesses :
1) Louis COUTARD, father
2) Pierre FREYSSANGEAS, aged 24
3) Auguste ROULEAU, aged 22
the last 2 being firemen and living in Paris, 24 rue Blanche

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Online Ref : V4E 4836
Online page : 22
Certificate number : 475
Certificate drafting date : February 17, 1881 at 10h30 am
Event : naissance = birth (female)
Event date : February 15, 1881 at 01h00 am
Name : Marie COUTARD
Father : Louis COUTARD, aged 31, employé de commerce = shop clerk
Mother : Maria Elisabeth MAWLE, aged 39, without occupation
Parents address : 40 rue Lacroix, Paris (17e)
Informants / witnesses :
1) Louis COUTARD, father
2) Léon DELMAS, aged 28, employé = employee, living in Paris, 11 rue Caroline
3) Jules BOURION, aged 34, employé = employee, living in Paris, 104 rue des Ternes

------------------------------------------------

;)

Re: Coutard family - 17th arrondissement - 1870's

Posted: 28 Dec 2009 1:20AM GMT
Classification: Query
This is absolutely brilliant and I can't tell you how grateful I am. I think the one named Alice Désirée may have died in infancy because the youngest one was known as Alice marie and there was one born about 1873-1874 named Blanche Léonie. Perhaps she was born elsewhere.Once again, thank you very, very much. You're a superstar!! Kind regards, Dave

Re: Coutard family - 17th arrondissement - 1870's

Posted: 30 Dec 2009 11:11PM GMT
Classification: Query
I've started looking up some births and deaths on the site you gave me. Because I don't know the dates exactly, I have to trawl through the records day by day and it's a long process. If you had to do the same to find the 3 Coutard girls, it must have taken you a considerable time, so I want you to know that I'm very grateful for your help and I wish you a very Happy New Year!!!! Kind regards, Dave

Re: Coutard family - 17th arrondissement - 1870's

Posted: 2 Jan 2010 12:26AM GMT
Classification: Query
You're very welcome and a Happy New Year to you too!!!

In fact, there is a useful tool to speed up the researches through the french civil registry (since 1794): the "Tables Décennales" (often shortened in TD) which are ten-years indexes and list the names and dates. For Paris, they're also divided in arrondissements and you'll find the link on the homepage : http://canadp-archivesenligne.paris.fr/archives_etat_civil/i...

T.D. direct link ---> http://canadp-archivesenligne.paris.fr/archives_etat_civil/1...

Sorry not to have given you that before! (be careful though, sometimes the alphabetical order is not strictly observed for the 2nd or 3rd letters)

I've browsed myself all the arrondissements for the period 1773/1882 but haven't found another child of this couple. And may be they were previously in the Paris suburbs... in this case, it will be very difficult to trace them as you'd have to check every town archive.

Kind regards, Amandine

Re: Coutard family - 17th arrondissement - 1870's

Posted: 6 Jan 2010 4:58PM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi Amandine,
Thank you very much for the extra info. The index of names by decade has been very helpful and I've found more info such as the second marriage of Maria Elizabeth Mawle in 1892. There are indications that the Coutards may have been descendants of Louis-Francois Coutard (1769-1852) who was a general in Napoleon's army. I'm also looking for a connection to the cinematographer, Raoul Coutard, who was born in Paris on Sept. 16, 1924. Thanks once again for your invaluable help!!

Kind regards, Dave

Re: Coutard family - 17th arrondissement - 1870's

Posted: 7 Jan 2010 1:42AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: COUTARD
Hi Dave,
Glad to know it was useful for your researches.
I'm guessing you're trying to connect the different branches of the COUTARD family? If so, keep in mind the COUTARD surname is not rare in France though many come from the departments of Mayenne and Sarthe.

See the map of the COUTARD births in France between 1891 and 1990 : http://www.geopatronyme.com/cgi-bin/carte/nomcarte.cgi?nom=c...

If you click on the department name on the right, you'll see the towns corresponding, ordered by number of births.

The origine of the COUTARD surname according to Jean TOSTI:
http://www.geneanet.org/nom-de-famille/index.php3?nom=coutar...

---------------------------------------------------------
COUTARD
Common in the Mayenne (French department - 53), it is a variant of COTARD (found notably in Ille et Vilaine - 35), considered by Marie-Thérèse Morlet as a derivative of COT, hypocoristic of names such as JACOT or NICOT (diminutives of the first names Jacques and Nicolas).
---------------------------------------------------------

Concerning the general Coutard, I don't think he had any children as he adopted successively two or three nephews:
- (Pierre André) Armand, vicomte de COUTARD, son of one of his elder brother (Ballon 1788 - Paris 1854)
- Eugène André François FRENAIS de COUTARD (1820-1907), son of his sister Anne Louise Marie Françoise and Pierre Gabriel FRENAIS. He married Jeanne Maria DELARUE in 1858.
- and may be also a nephew from his wife side: M. de VAUDRIMEY d'AVOUT (there was a lawsuit between them after his aunt/adoptive mother's death in 1834)

You can see some of the family links here: http://gw1.geneanet.org/index.php3?b=garric&lang=en;p=lo...

Nevertheless, it is a very interesting individual, well known in his original town of Ballon :
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballon_%28Sarthe%29
http://www.souvenir-davout.com/spip.php?article261
(use Google Language Tools for a quick translation)

You can even find his biography (in French, sorry) in Google Books: Le général comte de Coutard by Henri Léon Camusat de Riancey (1857) :
http://books.google.fr/books?id=bUUBAAAAQAAJ&printsec=fr...

Of course, you'll find many more COUTARD in the Geneanet database: http://search.geneanet.org/result.php?lang=en&name=couta...

Kind regards, Amandine

Re: Coutard family - 17th arrondissement - 1870's

Posted: 2 Dec 2012 6:25PM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi Amandine,
I see from recent postings that you're still helping amateur researchers like me. Thanks to you I've made a lot of progress and uncovered a lot in French records. Maria Elizabeth Coutard (née Mawle) married a second time to Pierre Arsène Hurard on 25/06/1892 in the 17th arr. Pierre's 1st wife, Anne Camille Hurard (Ancestry transcribed her maiden name as Havoné but it looks like Havoué to me)had died 6 months previously on 11/01/1892 in the 17th. Looking at the death record (13/01/1892) I saw that the preceding record was that of her brother, Ferdinand Pierre Havoué who also died in the 17th about 2 1/2 hours before his sister! Perhaps she succumbed to the shock of his death. His wife was born Adèle Désirée Hurard, the older sister of Pierre Arsène. It's a case of brother and sister marrying sister and brother!! I would like you to please look at the records and give me your opinion on whether the name is Havoué or Havoné and Ferdinand's address ( No. 8 Terizel or Orizel or ??? in the 17th arr. Thanking you in advance for your precious help!! Kind regards, Dave Mawle

Re: Coutard family - 17th arrondissement - 1870's

Posted: 4 Dec 2012 5:44PM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi Dave!

It's only by chance I came upon your message while browsing the board because I sure did not receive any alert that someone replied to this thread! Weird, I used to before?

No matter, I'm glad to hear from you! Still looking for the Coutard family then? I've checked the records you indicated and you're right, the name is HAVOUÉ and it seems the brother and sister died mere hours from each other! I concur with you too that she perhaps died from learning the news as they both died in their own home, unless they were both ill (unlikely) or wounded together in some accident and brought back home (also unlikely, they would have been sent to the hospital if it was that serious). So... the shock of grief?

Ferdinand's home was rue Trézel No. 8, the street name was changed in 1927 and became 'rue du Docteur-Heulin' in honour of said doctor: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rue_du_Docteur-Heulin

Have you managed to find the COUTARD/MAWLE marriage?

Kind regards,
Amandine

Re: Coutard family - 17th arrondissement - 1870's

Posted: 7 Dec 2012 3:03PM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi Amandine,
Thank you for your reply to my message. I also am not always notified of replies to my postings, so I have to go back and check. Thanks for confirming that the name was Havoué and the name of the street was Trézel. I was surprised to find that this street runs parallel to rue Lacroix where the Coutard /Hurard families lived and that if the numbering hasn't changed the 2 addresses 40 Lacroix and 8 Docteur Heulin would appear to back onto each other. I'll try to verify this using Google Earth. I was never looking for the Coutard / Mawle marriage in France because I knew that they were married in Soho, London in 1872. I was rather looking for their descendants of whom there seem to be very few. They had 5 children of whom 2 had died;confirmed by Maria Elizabeth Hurard on the 1911 census. The eldest child, Blanche Anna died at rue lacroix in 1884, aged 11. The other must have been Alice Désirée whose birth in 1875 you uncovered for me. No further mention of her. The only son, Louis Ernest Aimé seems to have been born in new York about 1874,married Margaret Gosling in 1906 had a daughter Vera in 1908. I don't know when or where Louis died, but Margaret was already a widow when she died in Connecticut in 1957. Their daughter, Vera seems to have never married as she died with her maiden name in Fresno, California in 1988. The 3rd Coutard daughter, Louise Maude born in rue Lacroix in 1876 married my granddad's cousin,her 2nd cousin, Arthur Barber Mawle in Hastings in 1901. They had no children and emigrated to the US in 1907. Louise died in Jacksonville, Florida in 1944. Arthur subsequently returned to England and married again. The youngest daughter, Maria Alice who was born in rue Lacroix in 1881 married Michel Henri Massonat sometime between 1901 and 1906 when they were living in Alberta, Canada. Henry, as he was known was a jeweller born in the 3rd arr., Paris in 1879. I haven't found any children born to them. Alice, as she was known was present at the death of her mother, Maria Elizabeth Hurard in Hastings in 1925. Alice died in Kent in 1941 and her will left everything to Frank Richard Beney.So it looks like I'll find no living descendants but who knows - maybe someone has info and photos of these people. Thanks again for all your help. As i've said before - you're a superstar!! Cheers, Dave
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