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GUTZAT & OBEREINER and Suwalki/Wartele (DE),Valteliai areas

GUTZAT & OBEREINER and Suwalki/Wartele (DE),Valteliai areas

Posted: 17 Jun 2012 12:42PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: GUTZAT, OBEREINER
MAJOR genealogy break through. I created FB groups for the purpose of furthering my genealogy research on my families. My mother's line (GUTZAT) from Germany (as my grandfather told my mother, though his place of birth he always listed as RUSSIA) has always stumped me. I have 3 people from Germany and one person from Poland who joined the GUTZAT Family group. Today, the person from Poland post...ed some information about an individual with my great-grandmother's last name (OBEREINER) and the village they were from. Imagine my surprise when I recognize the name (Wartele (DE),Valteliai) of this very tiny place as the same place my grandfather and his 2 brothers listed on their hometown in Germany on the ships passenger list in 1905. Since I could not find a place by this name on the internet, I attempted to translate it into English a couple months ago and found it meant 'waiting'. Now I find it is an actual place not 'WAITING'. On top of this, Wartele (DE),Valteliai, was behind the IRON CUTAIN in Federal Republic of Germany the Federal Republic of Germany. These little bits of information all put together, explain WHY

It is believe the GUTZAT family has origins in Lituania, where Wartele (DE),Valteliai is located.

Why this place Wartele is listed on the ship's passenger list, I always thought they were from Gryzbina, Suwalki area near Wizjany. They are near there, within 6-10 miles, of this place to the NORTH called Wartele (Lithuania/Germany/DE/Poland depending on the year). I've always been looking to the South or East or West.
and
How my OBERIENER family got behind the IRON CURTAIN. My mother's family and her GUTZAT cousins sent money and things to the Obereiner Family behind the Iron Curtain during WWII, because things were very bad there they could not afford to take care of themselves. They sent money for the family to buy a cow, so the children could have milk. The money ALWAYS got through, the thing never did.

I just can not believe my good fortune that God has blessed me so. If anyone has info on this area, I would love to hear from you. Cindy

Re: GUTZAT & OBEREINER and Suwalki/Wartele (DE),Valteliai areas

Posted: 18 Jun 2012 6:03PM GMT
Classification: Query
Spellings can be critical to finding places on a map so I wanted to provide a little clarification, Wartele = Varteliai, not Valteliai. Wartele is located only 5 km (about 3 mi.) WNW of Wizjany. Wartele as you correctly state is in Lithuania but Wizjany is in modern day Poland. Though Germans lived there, the region was never part of Germany. Also, though the word "wart" in German means "wait", that definition has no context in the place name. Wartele is simply the German or Polish way to spell the original Varteliai.

Also, to clarify further, the other village you mention is actually Grzybina and not Gryzbina. It is only 2 km west of Wizjany and roughly 4 km SE of Wartele.

To find Wartele on Google Maps, simply copy and paste these coordinates into the search box - 54.3922,22.7933
You will find Wizjany on the east side of the small lake that is just east of there.

To find available records for this region, go to http://www.sggee.org/research/parishes/church_parishes/Luthe... and scroll down the list of Lutheran parishes till you see Wizjany near the bottom. Click on the place name and it will take you to the Family Search site which will list the available microfilms covering 1844-1937. Records before 1867 will be in Polish but Roman script so you will be able to identify the names quite easily if the handwriting is good. Records after that will be in Russian Cyrillic, a bit more difficult. The SGGEE website also has tutorials to help you read these documents in Polish and Cyrillic.


Jerry Frank

Re: GUTZAT & OBEREINER and Suwalki/Wartele (DE),Valteliai areas

Posted: 18 Jun 2012 9:20PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: GUTZAT & OBEREINER
Thanks Jerry, you are always so helpful. It is greatly appreciated for someone geographically challenged like me. Of course, it also looks like I made some typos as well. It was such an exciting morning for me yesterday. I will go and look at those sites. I do have some records from the LDS microfiche a distant cousin made years ago. The copy is not the best and difficult to read, but as time passes and things become clearer I begin to understand more. My contact in Luthuania who joined my Gutzat Family Facebook page this week suddenly was a wealth of information coming after an eventful day at the DAR library in DC. I try to write everything I post and e-mail in both German and English. I can only hope the online translator I use is correct. Some of the things he writes don't translate, so I send them to a friend and ask for help. It is truly wonderful you jump right in and help me to better understand what I think I might know. Have a lovely evening. Cindy

Re: GUTZAT & OBEREINER and Suwalki/Wartele (DE),Valteliai areas

Posted: 19 Nov 2012 2:13AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: wartelsky wartelski
Hi Jerry. My family is from Wartele and I've been doing extensive research on the Wartelsky families and am trying to piece them together. Do you know when Wartele / Varteliai was founded? And might you have any useful information that I have not previously discovered? Thanks. (wartell.brian@gmail.com)

Re: GUTZAT & OBEREINER and Suwalki/Wartele (DE),Valteliai areas

Posted: 20 Nov 2012 5:30AM GMT
Classification: Query
I'm sorry but I cannot tell you anything about the settlement there. From a brief history of the Lutheran Church in Wizajny, I can report that a Lutheran Church was established by the nobleman Baranowski at nearby Sudawskie in the late 1700s but it apparently did not last long with the Pastor moving on to Chmielowka. Later noblemen did not support the church so the area was served intermittently by the Pastor from Suwalki. The church was finally reestablished at Wizajny in 1844.

Source: Die evangelisch-augsburgischen Gemeinden in Polen 1555-1939 by Eduard Kneifel.

Jerry

Re: GUTZAT & OBEREINER and Suwalki/Wartele (DE),Valteliai areas

Posted: 6 Dec 2012 6:41PM GMT
Classification: Query
Cindy, I think some basic history might help your research. In the 19th century Central Europe was divided between the three great empires - German, Russian and Austro-Hungarian. Lithuania was in the Russian Empire but parts of it bordered on the German Empire so it is quite possible one ancestor came from "Germany" and the other from "Russia". Google up a map of the Russian Empire in 1900. You have to remember that there was a difference between nationality (citizenship) and ethnicity. A Pole or Lithuanian could be Austrian, German or Russian, but still Polish or Lithuanian by ethnicity. There were comparatively large German settlements in Russia because Catherine the Great invited the Germans to come and establish industries in the 18th century. After 1919 the empires all collapsed and the Baltic States and Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary etc., all gained independence. In 1939 Hitler invaded Poland and the Baltic States, with Stalin grabbing half of Poland. In 1945 with the collapse of Germany all German territory east of the Oder-Neisse Line (google up a map of Germany in the boundaries of 1937) was given to Poland to compensate for the part Stalin had grabbed and had no intention of giving up. A small enclave, the northern half of the previous German East Prussia was given to the Soviet Union because Stalin wanted an ice-free port - Pillau, now known as Baltijsk. All Germans, German speakers, were expelled from these areas. What was left of Germany west of the Oder-Neisse Line, was divided into four zones of occupation, Russian, British, American and French. The Yalta Agreement had said there were to be free elections as soon as was possible but Stalin had no intention of giving up control over the Soviet (Russian) zone. The destruction from bombing meant most cities were destroyed and the whole population was starving - a matter of concern to the western Allies, not so much to Stalin. In 1948 the three western zones got together and had a currency reform which kick-started the economy and the famous Wirtschaftswunder and in 1949, tired of trying to get the Soviets to agree to anything the three western powers supported the foundation of the Bundesrepublik Deutschland (Federal German Republic) The Soviets replied with the Deutsches Demokratisches Republik (German Democratic Republic) a communist state under the control of Moscow with a heavily defended border running right through from east of the Elbe on the Baltic to the Czech border. On March 5th, 1946, Winston Churchill made a speech in Fulton, Missouri, where he said, inter alia, "From Stettin in the Baltic to Trieste in the Adriatic an Iron Curtain has descended across the continent" - this was before it was realised EAST Germany would also be behind this "Iron Curtain" but the expression was coined then - so whatever your relatives were doing during WW2 they were certainly not sending anything to anybody "behind the Iron Curtain" because no such place existed, and the Federal Republic of Germany was not behind the "Iron Curtain" either. How could it be - it didn't exist either! I would guess your relatives were some of those expelled from the areas east of the Oder-Neisse who all had to settle in either the BRD or the DDR - the former if they had any choice - and may have been sending things to the few left behind, or in the DDR if they were lucky enough to have landed in the BRD, but they would not have been sending money to buy cows for the simple reason that collectivisation of agriculture was on the top of the communist agenda and everybody was pushed and coerced into collectives and would not have been allowed to own animals, land, equipment or anything else privately. In the 50s and 60s as things in West Germany boomed people were officially encouraged to remember those "druben" and it actually became a bit of a burden because some of the East Germans felt the West Germans owed them something because they had been lucky enough to escape having the Russians come in - but one thing was always clear - "things" got through, money almost never, partly because it was illegal and partly because if anyone tried it it would always be confiscated because the DDr was always short of a healthy currency - no one wanted East German Marks! Hope this helps explain a bit - but I do think it is important to get the basic history right, even if the finer details are not. Also, if you can, do get someone who knows the language to help with translations. Google Translate can be useful for the odd word, but in general these computer programmes are awful.

Re: GUTZAT & OBEREINER and Suwalki/Wartele (DE),Valteliai areas

Posted: 8 Dec 2012 11:05PM GMT
Classification: Query
Thanks for the history. Trying to play catch up on the history of this area is challenging. I can only rely on information my mother provided me while she was alive. I believe this location is from the area where the family lived; Nietwerder, 1 Aus bau 5a. I have another letter from Hattingen, Eichnog 7, W. Germany. The young woman who wrote from this address said she attended Central School. Do you know where any of these might be located in present day?

Re: GUTZAT & OBEREINER and Suwalki/Wartele (DE),Valteliai areas

Posted: 9 Dec 2012 11:52AM GMT
Classification: Query
Hattingen is in the Ruhr, use Google maps. As far as I know Nietwerder is not a town, could be a street. Playing around with google is very useful.

Re: GUTZAT & OBEREINER and Suwalki/Wartele (DE),Valteliai areas

Posted: 9 Dec 2012 1:00PM GMT
Classification: Query
Thanks for your suggestions. I am working from addresses on envelopes. It seems there is a different format for addressing envelopes in Germany. Then there is the other task of reading the handwriting, I just take my best shot.
Cindy

Re: GUTZAT & OBEREINER and Suwalki/Wartele (DE),Valteliai areas

Posted: 9 Dec 2012 2:38PM GMT
Classification: Query
One further point in case it has been missed - there is only one Germany now - after the collapse of Communism the two Germanies re-united and their is just Bundesrepublik Deutschland (FederalRepublic of Germany) from west of the Rhine to the Polish and Czech borders.
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