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Mary Elizabeth

Mary Elizabeth

Posted: 8 Mar 2008 6:03PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Wharmby
I believe Mary E. was the daughter of James and Elizabeth Wharmby of Stockport, Lancashire, England. I know from family that Mary had three children, Lillie, Mary E., and Harold. If this is the correct Mary, she was always referred to as Polly, as was her daughter, Mary. Mary was the oldest of seven.

Re: Mary Elizabeth

Posted: 9 Mar 2008 5:41AM GMT
Classification: Query
What are you looking for, exactly? What was Mary's married name? Where in Bristol County did she live?

There are a few listings for James and Elizabeth Wharmby arriving into the US. On way to Edward, their son, in Illinois. A couple in the New York passenger records, some in the Boston passenger records.

They are in 1881 English census with Mary Ann, age 14. Assume she is the one married in 1887 in Hayfield.
James listed New Mills, Derbyshire as place of birth. All these places are close. Stockport covers both Lancashire and Cheshire, and Hayfield and New Mills are in Derbyshire near to Cheshire (my ancestor was born in New Mills)

Anyway...do you have the married name of Mary? Did she come to the US? What of her children...where did they live, what is their last name?

Re: Mary Elizabeth

Posted: 9 Mar 2008 12:40PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Hoole, Wharmby
James and Elizabeth Wharmby were not on their way to visit a son Edward. They didn't have a son, Edward or we have the wrong James and Elizabeth. James died two months after arriving from England. Mary Elizabeth didn't arrive from England until 1898 with her husband Peter Hoole. I am looking living family members, hoping to confirm that this is indeed the same Mary Elizabeth.

Re: Mary Elizabeth

Posted: 9 Mar 2008 6:29PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Wharmby, Dean, Preston, Crawford, Heywood, Nuttall, Scofield
That was the wrong James and Elizabeth...that is why it helps to post as much info as possible.

There is a listing for a marriage in the BMD records for Oct/Nov/Dec of 1885 for Peter Hoole to Mary Elizabeth Wharmby.

There is a record for the death of James Wharmby in 1893, but not accessible on line. However, there is a death record for Elizabeth Dean on 2 July 1905, buried Oak Grove Cemetery. She was listed at age 61y, 6m. Wife of James, reported by son Isaac Wharmby.

Elizabeth Dean's parents were James and Elizabeth Dean. Had an older brother named James (Hard to read) and another brother Isaac, 3 years younger then she. This is from the 1851 census of Stockport. By 1861, James is dead (he was 47 in the 1851 census) and Elizabeth and Isaac are still with mom, Betty.

Isaac Wharmby came over before the rest of the family. He had a number of children, a couple that were born in Fall River. His wife was Emma Preston. No doubt you may be able to find these children.

In addition, Alice Wharmby married a William Crawford on 18 June, 1906, though they appear to have only one child, Grace C. born 26 May 1907. She died before 1910 and there don't appear to be any more children.

Joseph Wharmby arrived in the US in 1904 or so. His wife, Helen Heywood, died on 14 May 1906. She was the daughter of Thomas Heywood and his wife, Elizabeth Nuttall. They had three children, Elsie, Edith, and Alice, all born in England and with them in the 1901 English Census of Stockport, and then in 1910 in Fall River. By 1920, Joseph has remarried a women named Alice. He is living in Norwich, New London, Conn with wife Alice, daughter Edith Scofield, who is a widow, daughter Alice, and grandson, Arthur Scofield, who was born in Conn.

Hope this helps.

Good Luck in finding living relatives!

Re: Mary Elizabeth

Posted: 9 Mar 2008 8:11PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Wharmby, Dean, Crawford, Philip, Hoole
Thank you. That was a great help. I am in contact with two of Isaac and Emma's granddaughters and two of Jane Ann (Jenny)granddaughters. They said most of the Wharmby's were buried in Oak Grove Cemetery. They are working on piecing together what they know. However, Isaac's granddaughters didn't know of James Wharmby, born 1879. That was my husband's grandfather. I knew some of my information was a little off, but you helped me verify some that I was guessing at. I knew Elizabeth's maiden name was Dean and that she had two brothers; one they called Jamie. There was a poem that my husband's aunt made up "Where is Jabez Dean?" I saw the England census showing a Elizabeth, with Isaac, and Jame Jabez with parent's. I also knew Jame was born around 1839. As far as Alice, we knew she married a Billy Crawford, but didn't know when, and had a child, it died very quickly after birth. She later married a James Philp and they had no children. Joseph, I knew married in England and had the three daughters you mentioned. However, we were told his wife was Ellen (probably namesake). I also knew of his remarrying a Alice and moving to Connecticut.

Thank you again for all your help. Let me know if you find out anything regarding Mary Elizabeth married to a Peter Hoole. The family refers to an Aunt Polly, and I think she is one and the same.

Re: Mary Elizabeth

Posted: 9 Mar 2008 8:49PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Hoole
Ellen and Helen are often used interchangedly. My great aunt was Ellen, called Helen, my grandfather's favorite sister who died young. My mother was named Helen and so is my daughter.

I am still having trouble determining your exact question...are you trying to prove that Polly and Mary are one and the same people? If so, what specific information is known about Polly that can connect to Mary. IN the old New England records, Polly and Molly were often used for Mary. More then that I cannot tell you. So I guess you are looking for documentation that ties Polly to Mary?

Or am I off on the wrong path once again? Or are you looking for the descendents of Mary Hoole? Or both?

Re: Mary Elizabeth

Posted: 9 Mar 2008 9:18PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Wharmby, Johnson, Hoole
This is what I know about Polly, daughter of James and Elizabeth Wharmby: our family says that Polly married a Frank Johnson and had three children, Lily, Polly, and Harold. They also say she later married a Peter Hoole. They do not say when she came over from England. When going back over the England census (1871,1881),there is no Polly shown with James and Elizabeth, but there is a Mary E. born 1866. I found a census showing a Mary E. married to a Peter Hoole in England and they had the following children, Mary E., Lillie, and Harold. It shows they immigrated to Fall River, Mass in 1898. I never found her married to Frank Johnson, but it could have been a very short marriage. I'm trying to verify if Polly and Mary E. are one and the one and the same. I think they are as I have been correct so far in my other guesses. As you say, many times, children were given namesakes. I have already seen that with James and Elizabeth's children. We know Jane Ann as Jenny. It is all based on what James called his sisters. Thanks for the help.

Re: Mary Elizabeth

Posted: 9 Mar 2008 9:46PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Wharmby, Johnson
I am going to have to go back and track this. I did see a Wharmby married to a Johnson among all the stuff I have looked at. Now I just have to find out...maybe it was the Mary Ann who came over with James and Elizabeth Wharmby that went to Illinois?

Gosh, don't know if I scribbled it down along the way but will go back through the notes and see....back later.

Re: Mary Elizabeth

Posted: 9 Mar 2008 10:05PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Johnson, Hoole, Pilling, Wharmby, Barnes
Found it. Frank S. Johnson, age 21 married Mary E. Hoole on July 20, 1908. Frank was the son of James Johnson and Elizabeth Pilling. Mary E. Hoole, was the daughter of Peter Hoole and Mary Wharmby!!

By 1920 Frank and Mary E. have Lillian, age 10, James P., age 7, and Frank H., age 2y 6m. His parents, James and Elizabeth, are living next door. In 1930, Elizabeth is a widow living with the Barnes family--her son in law and daughter. Frank and Mary E. are nearby, and children are the same...no more children.

So this at least explains that! Found the note in the scribbles and went back to the Massachusetts marriage records. Bingo.

Have a great one!

(yes, I have finally put the other Wharmby family to bed..permanently!)

Re: Mary Elizabeth

Posted: 11 Mar 2008 11:38AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Wharmby
Thank you for the information. It makes sense. There is one second cousin who thought that the first Mary E. married twice; the first time to Frank Johnson and then to Peter Hoole, but what you gave me, made sense and yesterday, I went and looked at the Census and agree with you. We are trying to piece together our family and have just that, bits and pieces from children of Isaac and others, who are either very old or dead. I plan on calling the cemetery to find what Wharmby's are buried at Oak Grove. I'm told that is where most of them are. Thanks again for the help. I know there are living descendants of Mary and Peter in Fall River. I found a tree, but am unable to contact them and that is a shame. I am trying to put pictures ot the faces to the names. I did realize yesterday, that I have a picture of Polly. We just didn't realize it was her until I went back to my mother-in-law's journal. She described her as being a very short woman, going only to her shoulders. If you go to my tree on this website you will see those that I have so far.
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