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Major Ralph Hart somehow getting connected to the De Vere family

Major Ralph Hart somehow getting connected to the De Vere family

Posted: 29 May 2010 7:39AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Hart, de Vere, Hunt, Shoemaker, Peche
I have a private tree that I try to keep accurate; I try to use the public member tree hints only as a guide, and then I look for official sources or printed material like genealogy books to confirm what I find.

But I got really excited when I saw my ancestor Major Ralph Hart (b. 1680, d. 30 July 1749) on a number of public trees as a great, great grandson to Eustace Hart who married Mary de Vere. The trees list the connection this way:

Maj. Ralph Hart < John Hart (m. Mary Hunt) < John Hart (m. Mary Shoemaker) < John Hart (m. Elizabeth Peche) < (Sir) Eustace Hart

Now, the reason I got excited is that Mary de Vere is the daughter of John de Vere, who was the 16th Earl of Oxford, and there are a whole line of Earls before him tracing back to 1086 and possibly earlier, one who was instrumental in the forming of the Magna Carta, and the first in line being listed in the Domesday Book.

Believe me, I would LOVE to be somehow connected to the Earls of Oxford (see Wikipedia) and have a tree that goes back as far as 1000 AD, but I really doubt that Major Ralph Hart was descended from them and have been trying to find proof in the connection from sources other than other family trees. I HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO FIND THAT PROOF. Plus, the dates simply don't work out. Mary de Vere was still married to her first husband when the first John Hart was born, and I suspect Mary and Eustace didn't have any children together; he was in his 70s when he married her, if the dates are any indication.

I have seen one source (via Google) say that Eustace Hart adopted John Hart. I have seen another source (again via Google) list Eustace Hart's issue. But everywhere else, it appears Eustace did not have any children with Mary de Vere.

My point is I've become really frustrated in my search -- more and more trees are taking in what I believe is erroneous information, which makes it harder for me to find the real sources that will help me find Ralph's true ancestors or either confirm or deny his connection to the De Vere family.

Can anyone help me out and point me in the right direction?

Thanks!

Re: Major Ralph Hart somehow getting connected to the De Vere family

Posted: 29 May 2010 8:19AM GMT
Classification: Query

This tree says that Sir Eustace Hart had no issue, and left a will dated 23 August 1634:
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/h/a/r/Robert-H-Ha...

The UK National Archives has a will for Sir Eustace Harte of Saint Benet Paul's Wharf, City of Lonon [sic], proved 30 October 1634, which you can download for £3.50:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/wills.asp...

:-)
Koromo

Re: Major Ralph Hart somehow getting connected to the De Vere family

Posted: 29 May 2010 8:21AM GMT
Classification: Query
Rule #1 - disregard trees
Rules #2 through 10 - disregard trees

Check out this web site that only touches the tip of the iceberg regarding published and oft-copied genealogical hoaxes:

http://personal.linkline.com/xymox/fraud/hoax.htm

Check out this rich and very deep web site devoted to corrections to Burke's Peerage:

http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/cp/vol1.shtml

A lot of the material will refer to items you are not familiar with, but if you study the introductory material it is explained.

Finally, disregard trees. They are no substitute for documentary evidence of the actually-existing kind.

Re: Major Ralph Hart somehow getting connected to the De Vere family

Posted: 29 May 2010 12:55PM GMT
Classification: Query
'OneWorldTree' strikes again!

Re: Major Ralph Hart somehow getting connected to the De Vere family

Posted: 29 May 2010 4:15PM GMT
Classification: Query
Thanks, everyone!

I suspected as much, but it's nice to have my suspicions confirmed. I'm still new at this, but even from the beginning I didn't like the idea of trusting that other people have done their research well. I've seen children born before their parents were on some trees.

Re: Major Ralph Hart somehow getting connected to the De Vere family

Posted: 30 May 2010 2:44AM GMT
Classification: Query
>>I've seen children born before their parents were on some trees.<<

Everyone keeps saying that but I've yet to see it. I guess I don't look at enough trees?! ;)

Re: Major Ralph Hart somehow getting connected to the De Vere family

Posted: 30 May 2010 3:05AM GMT
Classification: Query
LOL, well, perhaps I'm exaggerating. But I know I've seen birth years that seemed close to impossible.

Re: Major Ralph Hart somehow getting connected to the De Vere family

Posted: 12 Jul 2011 2:12AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Hart
Major Ralph Hart was my 6th great grandfather, I have a public tree, but haven't reasoned the 20$/month to join yet (as census info is available the local library) so I don't know if it can be seen by others, but whatever you find I will definitely be interested in.

Re: Major Ralph Hart somehow getting connected to the De Vere family

Posted: 20 Feb 2013 12:06AM GMT
Classification: Biography
Surnames: Hart
I ran into same questioning regarding Sir Eustace Hart and Mary DeVere but have not found the answers. Ages do not work and other records show they had no children together. Please advise if you find any answers. Would so appreciate it and will do the same for you.

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